Your position about Islam

[Shuttlecraft]

Entering Heaven alive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It's really interesting..

Yes there are all sorts of weird and wonderful resurrection beliefs out there, for example I once had a Rapturist "christian" woman to tea and she said "On judgement day, all christians will vanish off to heaven, leaving everybody else wondering where they've gone"
So I asked her- "but if christian car, train and bus drivers and airline pilots vanish, won't the driverless vehicles and planes go out of control and smash into buildings and crowds?"
"Yes" she replied, "it can't be helped".

What tripe! Boy was she soon out on her butt..

 

[sun rise]

It does not have to be in the bible, it is Christian dogma.

And it really is polytheism.


A study done at the Vatican showed that out of all saints prophets and gods, people that prayed to jesus were #6 on the list

As I read it, he asserted it was in the Bible hence my question to him about chapter and verse.

And as my post demonstrated, not all Christians accept the Trinity as dogma nor for that matter agree about the meaning of the trinity.

 

[outhouse]

As I read it, he asserted it was in the Bible hence my question to him about chapter and verse.

And as my post demonstrated, not all Christians accept the Trinity as dogma nor for that matter agree about the meaning of the trinity.

Nope, you misunderstood her.


She was saying the bible shows the concept is wrong. And it does show it is wrong.

But that never stops those that need to create mythology to explain difficult positions in reality

 

[LuisDantas]

Uh... why would the Bible have such authority?

 

[outhouse]

Uh... why would the Bible have such authority?

Its been effecting thinking for over 2000 years.

 

[LuisDantas]

Its been effecting thinking for over 2000 years.

I am not disputing that it has been influential. But why would anyone decide that it has authority to tell whether there is one God, how many aspects if any it may manifest, or even how stable the answers are?

 

[outhouse]

I am not disputing that it has been influential. But why would anyone decide that it has authority to tell whether there is one God, how many aspects if any it may manifest, or even how stable the answers are?

Fanaticism blinds people to reality.

Its my opinion the trinity is mans definition to fix the problem of polytheism. They wanted to have one god, one all powerful god, and had to redefine the concept to include this new martyred son of god

 

[Parsimony]

Actually, I did think of a question that I had. Why do Muslims say "Peace be upon him" every time they say Muhammad's name? I mean no disrespect with that question.

 

[sun rise]

I am not disputing that it has been influential. But why would anyone decide that it has authority to tell whether there is one God, how many aspects if any it may manifest, or even how stable the answers are?

That important question which should include history, sociology and psychology in the response is beyond the scope of a thread post to do more than touch on.

My Jewish background includes the famous "two Jews, three opinions" approach to religion so I approach any religion's scriptures knowing that people will disagree about the meaning of the words.

 

[Sabour]

Enlighten me.

24:31 And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons, their sisters' sons, their women, that which their right hands possess, or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed.

33:59 O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM7RUcT05RU

I've heard from at least two other Muslims that it is, but so far as I know that might be a matter of interpretation.

I think they are mistaken. I would say that it is not an encouraged thing to do. But not considered a sin.

I don't know what reading the Quran is supposed to do in terms of giving me evidence. The evidence I need is of the supernatural. Not just of the supernatural, but evidence that is stronger than the supernatural claims of other religions (or at least good reasons to believe that the supernatural claims of Islam are correct and those of other religions are false).

The way I thought is that as you read Quraan you would be able to reflect on things and would be in a position to tell if that sounds like the truth or not because you were familiar with Christianity I think.

Are you not convinced that God exists ?

 

[outhouse]

If muslims are not all following fanaticism

Why are terrorist recruiting and converting good muslims with 50$ and a cell phone?


They are becoming terrorist for 50$ and a cell phone

 

[Sabour]

Who would believe them otherwise?



I am sure you have. Every holy book has its miracles. Who would believe them, otherwise.

The question is what you believe first. The holy book, or the miracles? If you believe the holy book first, then you believe de-facto everything it contains, no matter how weird. If the miracles strengthen your belief in the holy book, then you suffer from self reinforcing circular reasoning.

On the other hand, if you believe the miracles first, what led you to consider them more plausible than the miracles of other books?



And who are you going to ask?

I think you will have another logistic problem. I heard it is forbidden to defecate in the direction of the Mecca. But what do you do when you are the antipodes and the Mecca lies exacly below you?

Ciao

- viole

Things can be done in various ways.

One can do things logically and others can do things by read the Quraan to know if it is Word of God. Some would read the life of the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. Some may read the prophecies of him instead,

If you ever thought about reading a biography about our prophet I suggest you would read a book called the first muslim which was written by an agnostic Jew,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y2Or0LlO6g

 

[Parsimony]

24:31 And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons, their sisters' sons, their women, that which their right hands possess, or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed.

33:59 O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

By "not being abused" does that mean "rape"? People don't rape just because they can see a woman's hair. Christian women are able to live quite well without having their hair covered in public. Why aren't Muslim men also required to cover their hair?

The way I thought is that as you read Quraan you would be able to reflect on things and would be in a position to tell if that sounds like the truth or not because you were familiar with Christianity I think.

In order for something to "sound like the truth" to me it would have to line up with verifiable evidence.

Are you not convinced that God exists ?

He might exist, but I'm not convinced of it, no.

 

[outhouse]

One can do things logically and others can do things by read the Quraan to know if it is Word of God.

And reading a book with mythology does no prove anything divine about muhammad, that is circular thinking at best.

At worst it ignores the blatant plagiarizing and mythology read literally by most all muslims

 

[Sabour]

Personally, I just don't see why people care so much about whether Trinitarianism is compatible with Monotheism or not.

Ultimately, it does not really matter. It is not like even sincere monotheists have anything resembling an uniform perception of what God is like. And Trinitarianism is nothing more than a statement that God is One, but manifests in three main roles or aspects. Yet some people almost seem to believe that a Trinitarian will deny the existence of the Father in order to worship the Son or the Holy Ghost.

When the chips are down, the actual relevance is not that of how many Gods one believes in, but on what one finds proper or interesting to pursue.

It is not about what one may find interesting to pursue. It is about what is true and what is not. The only way to happiness is the truth. It is not what may seem to you as fascinating or interesting

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The only way to happiness is the truth.

Truth and happiness don't necessarily go together.

 

[Sabour]

Where in religious history does a messenger of peace on behalf of Gd choke the receipient?

Why do I have a problem understanding what you want to say?

I didn't understand what you are referring too ?

 

[LuisDantas]

It is not about what one may find interesting to pursue. It is about what is true and what is not. The only way to happiness is the truth. It is not what may seem to you as fascinating or interesting

That sure sounds weird to me, particularly as a reason to follow an Abrahamic Faith.

One that is usually very opposed to Evolutionism, no less. Not good credentials to speak about seeking truth.

 

[Sabour]

Actually, I did think of a question that I had. Why do Muslims say "Peace be upon him" every time they say Muhammad's name? I mean no disrespect with that question.

This is something we say after other prophets also. We are asked to do that

33:56 Indeed, Allah confers blessing upon the Prophet, and His angels [ask Him to do so]. O you who have believed, ask [ Allah to confer] blessing upon him and ask [ Allah to grant him] peace.

Hope you read this
http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/allahs_salat.htm

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It is about how Allah wants things to happen.

Perhaps that ages had different needs. Perhaps it is a test. I dont know the reason and we don't question such things in Islam saying why Allah did this instead of that because Allah is the All Knowing

That's not an answer. That's a refusal to even consider the question.

Jews and Christians don't have a problem with questioning why god does this or that and they develop reasonable (yet still debatable) arguments for their views. Why is Islam so inept as to not be able to develop such a sophisicated body of logical argumentation as its sibling faiths, Judaism and Christianity? I've never argued with a Muslim that was able to stack up to the best Christian philosophers and theologians, or even knowledgeable Christian apologists. You've had about 1,400 years to do so!