Your position about Islam

[outhouse]

But many muslims are looked upon to be terrorists and those who worship a moon god and worship to a box in the desert. .

Yes you do have many stereotypes being used that do not reflect many followers

We are viewed as ignorant and crazy.

Is there any truth in that statement?


Yes there is, it applies to all of us, so do you want to deny it?, or fix it?, or ignore it?

Even those who don't view us like that still have some invalid points about muslims.

I think this is denial on your part.


The whole religion is rather blind to its own fanaticism and fundamentalism.


Its obvious plagiarism that is denied, as well as the fact literalism is dangerous as the text are so vague ignorant people can read into them just about anything they want.

 

[Sabour]

It's a matter of opinion that the "female body is more beautiful". What counts as sexually-provocative dress will vary from culture to culture because of what the residents of that culture are used to.

Perhaps more stimulating can give more meaning

That is too simplifying. A woman isn't turned on just because a strange man touches her nor is it correct to say that they are not sexually attracted to a man's physical appearance.

That is why we also have a dress code also. We should also cover the parts which are appealing to women.

Sorry, but it take a huge stretch of the imagination to believe that those verses indicate what you think they do. It's a perfect example of hindsight bias.

That is why I recommended watching some videos before judging. I recommend watching videos about it again. I also recommend reading about Gary Miller. ( Dr. Gary Miller's Lectures. Dr. Gary Miller (also known as Abdul-Ahad Omar) is a Canadian Mathematician and former Christian Missionary who has converted to ..)

I'll watch it when I have more time later

That would be appreciated.

 

[outhouse]

We should also cover the parts which are appealing to women.

.

Sounds like barbarianism and a complete lack of self control.

What is sickening to me and proves the barbarianism, is you do not have equal rules or laws applied to men.

 

[vskipper]

Jesus said- "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven - me." (John 3:13)
so you can argue it out with him when you meet him.
Meanwhile if you care to tell us which specific other verses you're talking about, we can take a look at them in context.

2 Kings 2:1-11

Genesis 5:24

 

[vskipper]

Yes there are all sorts of weird and wonderful resurrection beliefs out there, for example I once had a Rapturist "christian" woman to tea and she said "On judgement day, all christians will vanish off to heaven, leaving everybody else wondering where they've gone"
So I asked her- "but if christian car, train and bus drivers and airline pilots vanish, won't the driverless vehicles and planes go out of control and smash into buildings and crowds?"
"Yes" she replied, "it can't be helped".

What tripe! Boy was she soon out on her butt..

Matthew 24:36-41 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

 

[vskipper]

If I may, Luis. In this thread we are seeing what is essentially a play on ignorance, the ignorance of non-Muslims in regards to Islam and what Islam teaches. It is heartening to see folks pushing back at what they are being told. I too have no doubt about the sincerity of One-Answer, but even his name is indicative where these discussions will go. There is almost zero possibility that a point raised by a non-Muslim will be seen as valid, especially where theology/mythology is involved. For example, my rather pointed remarks about compulsion. I, for one, don't see how it can be anything BUT compulsion. My guess is that the reason One-Answer disagrees is because he cannot consider the possibility as being serious due to the "House of Cards" nature of Islam.

Well as what some might call an "apostate" of Islam I have to say I have run into much irritation when I question things within Islam. The answers are usually prepared but when not the answers become because God said so or something of the equivalent

 

[Phil25]

Consider it what you want, but I only desire sharia state when it is real sharia we are talking about. And everybody will love it including non muslims. And all people are equal.

You claim that under Sharia law, everyone is equal. Secular Democracy too ensures more or less that one is equal under law. So Whats so special about Sharia law, that you think will make all 7 billion of us love it?

 

[vskipper]

Sounds like barbarianism and a complete lack of self control.

What is sickening to me and proves the barbarianism, is you do not have equal rules or laws applied to men.

Covering the head is practiced in many religions. And men have their own dress code in Islam as well and many Muslim men do cover their head with a scarf or kufi of some kind.

Nuns cover their head, Catholic lay women in Mexico & Ireland cover their head, Amish cover their head, Jewish women cover their head.

 

[vskipper]

You claim that under Sharia law, everyone is equal. Secular Democracy too ensures that one is equal under law. So Whats so special about Sharia law, that you think will make all 7 billion of us love it?

Secular democracy is equal? God I hope your kidding. No form of democracy has ever been equal. The rich use and abuse the underclasses. Look at Corporate bailouts. Movie stars out in months for murder because of high priced attorneys.

 

[outhouse]

Covering the head is practiced in many religions. And men have their own dress code in Islam as well and many Muslim men do cover their head with a scarf or kufi of some kind.

Nuns cover their head, Catholic lay women in Mexico & Ireland cover their head, Amish cover their head, Jewish women cover their head.

Yet the men no.

And they also take it to the extreme in some places.


Its not freedom, and its not unbiased freedom. Is my main gripe.


But you also take me out of context, look at his statement.

We should also cover the parts which are appealing to women.

Why because they are animals with no control? or sexism?

 

[vskipper]

That is why I recommended watching some videos before judging. I recommend watching videos about it again. I also recommend reading about Gary Miller. ( Dr. Gary Miller's Lectures. Dr. Gary Miller (also known as Abdul-Ahad Omar) is a Canadian Mathematician and former Christian Missionary who has converted to ..)

And what video would you recommend for surah al ahzab ayat 50 & the clear seperate law made for Muhammad contrary to the law of the believers?

 

[Phil25]

Secular democracy is equal? God I hope your kidding. No form of democracy has ever been equal. The rich use and abuse the underclasses. Look at Corporate bailouts. Movie stars out in months for murder because of high priced attorneys.

Secular Democracy is not perfect. No human institution is perfect. But do you think that 7th Century Desert laws are better than Secular laws?

 

[sun rise]

Truth be told, it is rare enough for people to actually try.

Odd as it may seem, most people prefer to instead attempt to impress others with their insistence, depth of feeling, or just to drown them with barrages of quotes and text.

It can't work, of course, but apparently it is not meant to. The goal is usually to convince the "arguer" himself or herself that something was accomplished, the amount of effort and time spent being what passes for evidence.

tl;dr: Pigeon Chess is a very popular sport, even if it has only recently been named.

Spot on.

Pigeon Chess was a new phrase to me so I looked and found Pigeon chess - RationalWiki

 

[vskipper]

Yet the men no.

And they also take it to the extreme in some places.


Its not freedom, and its not unbiased freedom. Is my main gripe.


But you also take me out of context, look at his statement.



Why because they are animals with no control? or sexism?

It is believed in those religions, including true Islam, that covering the head is a personal choice between the woman & God. The forcing of it is blatantly contrary to the Qur'an

 

[vskipper]

Secular Democracy is not perfect. No human institution is perfect. But do you think that 7th Century Desert laws are better than Secular laws?

I think that "secluar laws" originate from laws made in ancient Babylon & those who follow them should show more respect to the forefathers.For instance one of the key writers of the constitution owned a Qur'an.

P.S.
Contrary to most I think secularism is a means towards major powers enslaving man with his own greed and desire

 

[outhouse]

It is believed in those religions, including true Islam, that covering the head is a personal choice between the woman & God. The forcing of it is blatantly contrary to the Qur'an

Your taking mine and the post I replied to, out of context.


Yet it is forced. And not equally. And it is done so under religious laws.


maybe we should start a thread why all muslims pervert the religion so much, but then we would be as guilty as they are for the sectarianism due to ALL of the cultures that claim only their interpretation is correct.

We should also cover the parts which are appealing to women.

what is appealing is subjective to personal interpretation, and barbaric due to lack of self control

 

[Phil25]

I think that "secluar laws" originate from laws made in ancient Babylon & those who follow them should show more respect to the forefathers.

Hardly. And there is huge difference between Ancient Babylon and Arabs.
Ancient Babylon was around 600 BC.
Muhammad was around AD 600.
A difference of 1200 yrs.

Also, Secular laws can be changed over time. Same Sex Marriage can and are legalized under Secular laws. Not so much with Islamic law which is the very laws of Allah and as such should not be even questioned.

For instance one of the key writers of the constitution owned a Qur'an.
Many owned Bibles too. Does that make US a Christian nation?

Contrary to most I think secularism is a means towards major powers enslaving man with his own greed and desire

 

[sun rise]

Yet the men no.
...
Why because they are animals with no control? or sexism?

The statistics are interesting while, of course, underreporting does distort them. There has been a marked decline in rape and sexual violence in the US over the past number of years Bureau of Justice Statistics Female Victims of Sexual Violence, 1994-2010 Another way to look at the US is presented here NISVS Infographic|National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey|Funded Programs|Violence Prevention|Injury Center|CDC and that shows that using a broader definition including stalking, the problem is widespread. The number by state would indicate that countries where people dress perhaps more provocatively such as Hawaii is well down in the statistics but Alaska is at the top Change the List: States where rape is most common - CNN.com

The highest incidence of rape is not in the Islamic countries but quite a bit in Europe per Top 5 Countries with the Highest Rates of Rape A different set of numbers but with the same basic idea Top 10 Countries With Highest Rape Crime And another Rape Statistics | Statistic Brain

What lesson do I derive from all these numbers - how a person dresses is not related much if at all to sexual violence. West vs Islamic countries likewise except that there are more Islamic countries with low rape numbers - I'll bet that's tied to religion.

Highest order summary - overgeneralization is a mistake.

 

[outhouse]

The statistics are .

Not relevant to the discussion and a red herring


I made a specific comment to a specific statement that did not address religious clothing as much as what the sexist statement implied which you keep ignoring.


If people cannot look at women and control their selves they are animals period. That is my point. Now whether that applies to OP is altogether another story.

 

[sun rise]

Secular Democracy is not perfect. No human institution is perfect. But do you think that 7th Century Desert laws are better than Secular laws?

At one point I became interested in knowing more about what Sharia law really says and found some interesting results. There are overlaps between the legal systems. There are, for example, may Sharia compliant banks in the United States that are doing quite well and, in fact, were not caught up in the "Great Recession".

There are other aspects which are purely religious and concern how to pray and so forth.

Now I do take exception to the typical interpretation of the Hudud laws, those mandated in the Quran as well as the mandated distinctions between men and women when it comes to inheritance as well as other areas. But I have found it useful to be specific about what I don't like in the classical Islamic Sharia system.

It's also worth noting the difference between Shi'a and Sunni Islam when it comes to the law. There is in Twlever Islam Nikah mut'ah, temporary marriage. Some claim it's a cover for prostitution and I think there's some truth in it. A man and a woman have an agreed on period for a marriage after which it automatically is over.

And, in Iran, sexual reassignment surgery for transgenders is permitted by a fatwah.