Your position about Islam

[LuisDantas]

I think that "secluar laws" originate from laws made in ancient Babylon & those who follow them should show more respect to the forefathers.For instance one of the key writers of the constitution owned a Qur'an.

Those are fairly remote links, don't you think? Are you implying that they are significant?

P.S.
Contrary to most I think secularism is a means towards major powers enslaving man with his own greed and desire

What do you propose as a better option?

 

[sun rise]

Covering the head is practiced in many religions. And men have their own dress code in Islam as well and many Muslim men do cover their head with a scarf or kufi of some kind.

Nuns cover their head, Catholic lay women in Mexico & Ireland cover their head, Amish cover their head, Jewish women cover their head.

Standards of modesty vary by culture. It's not OK in 99% of the world for people to walk the streets naked, for example. I think discussing relative standards of dress in different cultures can be interesting from a historical and cultural perspective. But to me anything else is personal preference along with the classic "I think my way is better".

 

[sun rise]

...
maybe we should start a thread why all muslims pervert the religion so much, but then we would be as guilty as they are for the sectarianism due to ALL of the cultures that claim only their interpretation is correct...

I would extend that to a discussion about how human nature operates in all people. It was not so long ago where Abraham Lincoln in his second inaugural address mentioned how the South justified slavery on Biblical grounds. The question of why it's so easy for so many to pervert their own religion is a very good question.

 

[outhouse]

The question of why it's so easy for so many to pervert their own religion is a very good question.

yet the answer is obvious.

they are still following guides to live, for ANCIENT barbaric men.

the religions have not evolved forward enough to ditch the mythology.

Its the literalism that ruins the original beauty and is the embarrassment for society that will be looked upon as a stain on humanity.

 

[vskipper]

Those are fairly remote links, don't you think? Are you implying that they are significant?



What do you propose as a better option?

Ten commandments yes & if you study the basics of sharia according to the madhabs you will find distinct similarities.

I think small communties developed around the believes of the community is better. Basically a nation of small communities similar to the Amish (not necesarily the same believes as technology and what not) as far as closed knit based around the belief system of the community.

 

[LuisDantas]

I would extend that to a discussion about how human nature operates in all people. It was not so long ago where Abraham Lincoln in his second inaugural address mentioned how the South justified slavery on Biblical grounds. The question of why it's so easy for so many to pervert their own religion is a very good question.

One of the reasons (and I am always put a bit off-balance by reminding myself that it escapes so many theists) is because religion needs to be interpreted by the wisdom and knowledge of the adherents.

Scripture is incredibly over-rated. To hear some people, one would think it is in some sense the core of certain religions - and in my honest opinion such a notion is inherently silly.

 

[LuisDantas]

Ten commandments yes & if you study the basics of sharia according to the madhabs you will find distinct similarities.

I think small communties developed around the believes of the community is better. Basically a nation of small communities similar to the Amish (not necesarily the same believes as technology and what not) as far as closed knit based around the belief system of the community.

I can agree with the small communities part.

 

[outhouse]

Scripture is incredibly over-rated. .

Words of wisdom :yes:

 

[Shuttlecraft]

..Scripture is incredibly over-rated..

Yes there are plenty of "Bible snobs" around who weave longwinded tangled furballs of obscure scripture to try to pretend they know more than the rest of us poor slobs..

But they can't get under the radar..-

"If anyone preaches a perverted gospel they're accursed" (Gal 1:6-9)
"Beware men who spoil you with enticing words,deceitful philosophy not after Christ" (Col 2:4-8 )
"Ignorant people distort things,to their own destruction" (2 Pet 3:16/17)
"Ungodly men have slipped in among you" (Jude 4)
"Don't get carried away by strange teachings" (Heb 13:9)
"They want to win you over and alienate you from us" (Gal 4:17)

Paul said- "I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)
Jesus said- "Love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor"-(Mark 12:30, John 13:34, Matt 25: 37-40)
"And the common people heard Jesus gladly" (Mark 12:37)

 

[Parsimony]

Perhaps more stimulating can give more meaning

A woman's body is more stimulating to a straight man than another man's body would be, but a man's body would be more stimulating to a straight woman than another woman's body would be. It's relative.

That is why we also have a dress code also. We should also cover the parts which are appealing to women.

I'm all for dressing decently, but there should be an allowance made for cultural norms. I see women every day with their hair uncovered and I don't feel even a remote impulse to lust after them because of it.

That is why I recommended watching some videos before judging. I recommend watching videos about it again. I also recommend reading about Gary Miller. ( Dr. Gary Miller's Lectures. Dr. Gary Miller (also known as Abdul-Ahad Omar) is a Canadian Mathematician and former Christian Missionary who has converted to ..)

If you really think that the Quran talks about the Theory of Relativity and all those other things then you're going to need more than just those vague verses to support those claims. If it really was referring to Relativity, then why weren't Muslims of the time able to use the Quran to formulate it back then on their own? Why did we have to wait until the 1900's before someone figured it out (and without using the Quran)? Did those Muslims not actually know what the verse meant? If not, then why did God withhold its true meaning from them?

 

[sun rise]

...
"If anyone preaches a perverted gospel they're accursed" (Gal 1:6-9)
"Beware men who spoil you with enticing words,deceitful philosophy not after Christ" (Col 2:4-8 )
"Ignorant people distort things,to their own destruction" (2 Pet 3:16/17)
"Ungodly men have slipped in among you" (Jude 4)
"Don't get carried away by strange teachings" (Heb 13:9)
"They want to win you over and alienate you from us" (Gal 4:17)

...

There are similar statements in the Hadith. For example:

The Prophet said, "Near the establishment of the Hour there will be days during which (religious) knowledge will be taken away (vanish) and general ignorance will spread, and there will be Al-Harj in abundance, and Al-Harj means killing."

and

The time is near in which nothing will remain of Islam but its name, and of the Quran but its mere appearance, and the mosques of Muslims will be destitute of of knowledge and worship; and the learned will be the worst people under the heavens; and contention and strife will issue from them, and it will return upon themselves.
...
Ye follower of Muhammad, I swear by the Lord, if ye did but know what I know of the future state, verily ye would laugh little and cry much.
...
Men will be liars towards the end of the world; and will relate such stories as neither you nor your fathers ever heard. Then avoid them, that they may not lead you astray and throw you into contention and strife.

 

[sun rise]

One of the reasons (and I am always put a bit off-balance by reminding myself that it escapes so many theists) is because religion needs to be interpreted by the wisdom and knowledge of the adherents.

Scripture is incredibly over-rated. To hear some people, one would think it is in some sense the core of certain religions - and in my honest opinion such a notion is inherently silly.

This is the reason I'm one of those "spiritual but not religious" types. I'm a theist but don't find any scripture to be ultimately satisfying although I do find some passages to be inspirational. Instead I look to the words of those like Kabir for guidance:

Does Khuda live in the mosque?
Then who who lives everywhere?
Is Ram in idols and holy ground?
Have you looked and found him there?
Hari in the East, Allah in the West -
So you like to dream.
Search in the heart, in the heart alone:
There live Ram and Karim.

 

[Phil25]

A woman's body is more stimulating to a straight man than another man's body would be, but a man's body would be more stimulating to a straight woman than another woman's body would be. It's relative.


I'm all for dressing decently, but there should be an allowance made for cultural norms. I see women every day with their hair uncovered and I don't feel even a remote impulse to lust after them because of it.


If you really think that the Quran talks about the Theory of Relativity and all those other things then you're going to need more than just those vague verses to support those claims. If it really was referring to Relativity, then why weren't Muslims of the time able to use the Quran to formulate it back then on their own? Why did we have to wait until the 1900's before someone figured it out (and without using the Quran)? Did those Muslims not actually know what the verse meant? If not, then why did God withhold its true meaning from them?

I find it really idiotic that many think that they can find every scientific theory in their scriptures.

 

[outhouse]

CAIRO (AP) — An Internet video released Friday purports to show an Islamic State group fighter beheading British hostage Alan Henning

Video: Islamic State group beheads British hostage


And the religion is not innocent. Do we have to keep ignoring this?

 

[Shuttlecraft]

..I see women every day with their hair uncovered and I don't feel even a remote impulse to lust after them because of it..

Me neither, especially if it's short-cropped.
But if a woman's wearing sexy high heels my temperature and heart rate definitely go up a few notches

 

[Quintessence]

1- What is your position about Islam?

That it has become the favorite religion to hate in my country, which is both sad and misguided. Do some Islamic traditions represent ways of life that are counter to the ideals of some in my country? Of course they do; the same can be said of the traditions of any religion. I think the idea that lies at the core of Islam (as I understand it) - submission to their god - has beauty. It has some parallels within my own religion, though it looks very different in mine. There is much to be gained from engaging in a respectful dialogue instead of the finger pointing and demonizing that is prevalent in conversations on Islam.

2- Do you have any questions that you would like having answers to?

I think I would like hearing stories about how devotion to Islam has a positive impact in the lives of Muslims. Stories about how devotion to their god has made them better people, or how they go about the rituals of their prayers. Maybe I could learn something from these things?

The primary thing that concerns me about Islam - or any monotheistic religion - is it seems inherently intolerant of religious diversity. I have no issue with someone wanting to devote themselves to a single deity if that is the right path for them, but insisting their way is right for everybody is... to say that I am leery of any ideology that attempts to homogenize is probably an understatement. Self-proclaimed righteousness too easily lends itself to forcing that righteousness on others. This is something humans do broadly, not just in matters of religion, but monotheisms, which often declare that there's only one "real" or "true" god, unfortunately seem to lend themselves more to that sort of zealotry than non-theistic religions or polytheistic religions.

3- Why do you think Islam is wrong?

I don't. I think Islam is wrong for me as a religion, because I could never limit myself to worshiping a single deity. There are too many beautiful and sacred things out there in the world for me to do that. I also just don't connect with Abrahamic mythos. It's not my literary genre, so to speak. The aesthetic isn't appealing. And aesthetic is very important; so much of religion is storytelling, and if I don't like the aesthetic of the story, I won't go see the movie.

 

[Shuttlecraft]

...much of religion is storytelling, and if I don't like the aesthetic of the story, I won't go see the movie.

You're a Neopagan so presumably you like the Earth, check out these eco-friendly bits..-

God said:-"Every animal of the forest is MINE,and the cattle on a thousand hills.
I know every bird in the mountains,and the creatures of the field are MINE, for the world is MINE,and all that is in it"(Psalm 50 10-12)

Jesus said:-"God won't forget the death of a sparrow" (Matt 10:29)

"The time has come for judging the dead.. and for destroying those who destroy the earth" (Revelation 11:18 )

"The whole earth is at peace, the trees rejoice at no woodcutter coming" (Isaiah 14:7/8 )

"The spider taketh hold with her hands, and is in kings' palaces" (Proverbs 30:28 KJV)

"The word of the Lord came to me, saying, 'Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart" (Jeremiah 1:4)
"Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, 'Whom shall I send?'..
And I said, 'Here am I. Send me!" (Isaiah 6:8)

 

[Sabour]

You claim that under Sharia law, everyone is equal. Secular Democracy too ensures more or less that one is equal under law. So Whats so special about Sharia law, that you think will make all 7 billion of us love it?

Secular democracy is man made, Sharia law is according to the Quraan, according to the Word of God.

If correctly followed, it will be absolutely fair to everyone.

 

[outhouse]

That it has become the favorite religion to hate in my country, which is both sad and misguided. .

I do agree

And sometimes it is misguided, and it is sad.



I think it Is really sad that most people don't understand the level of fanaticism required as a whole.


In Ca where we are more open, and more multi cultural than many places, your statement would not apply. I have not had a problem or issue with islam because I was ignorant about it.

As I learned about it, and how far the fanaticism has sunk in, and figured out just how literal they are as a whole, it change my complete outlook. Most of this is due to the fanaticism I have witnessed in person in this forum by good muslims. Not bias, and not stereotypes, and I also take it in context it is debating and some post and replies are emotionally charged and not representative as a whole.

I place the whole lot a level of fanaticism as Christian YEC, and I would like to be proven wrong.

 

[outhouse]

If correctly followed, .

Well that is never going to happen.


Muslims kill each other over how to "correctly follow" since the religion started and its going on strong with sectarian violence on barbaric scales.