Your position about Islam

[Sabour]

A woman's body is more stimulating to a straight man than another man's body would be, but a man's body would be more stimulating to a straight woman than another woman's body would be. It's relative.


I'm all for dressing decently, but there should be an allowance made for cultural norms. I see women every day with their hair uncovered and I don't feel even a remote impulse to lust after them because of it.


If you really think that the Quran talks about the Theory of Relativity and all those other things then you're going to need more than just those vague verses to support those claims. If it really was referring to Relativity, then why weren't Muslims of the time able to use the Quran to formulate it back then on their own? Why did we have to wait until the 1900's before someone figured it out (and without using the Quran)? Did those Muslims not actually know what the verse meant? If not, then why did God withhold its true meaning from them?

Quraan is not a book of science that explicitly discusses things. But it has scientific signs.

Perhaps they are somehow vague, but the amount of these makes one begin wondering if they are just flukes. There are some things that a man won't even think about writing 1400 years ago/

The reason is because of what I said, Quraan doesn't explicitly discuss it but rather has hints.

Take for example saying mountains as pegs. Isn't that clear enough?

Yes they are clear now because now we actually know what it is really meant.

Quraan always has something new to offer as time goes by. It is like it never gets old. This is the miracle of the Quraan


41:53

We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?

 

[Sabour]

That it has become the favorite religion to hate in my country, which is both sad and misguided. Do some Islamic traditions represent ways of life that are counter to the ideals of some in my country? Of course they do; the same can be said of the traditions of any religion. I think the idea that lies at the core of Islam (as I understand it) - submission to their god - has beauty. It has some parallels within my own religion, though it looks very different in mine. There is much to be gained from engaging in a respectful dialogue instead of the finger pointing and demonizing that is prevalent in conversations on Islam.



I think I would like hearing stories about how devotion to Islam has a positive impact in the lives of Muslims. Stories about how devotion to their god has made them better people, or how they go about the rituals of their prayers. Maybe I could learn something from these things?

The primary thing that concerns me about Islam - or any monotheistic religion - is it seems inherently intolerant of religious diversity. I have no issue with someone wanting to devote themselves to a single deity if that is the right path for them, but insisting their way is right for everybody is... to say that I am leery of any ideology that attempts to homogenize is probably an understatement. Self-proclaimed righteousness too easily lends itself to forcing that righteousness on others. This is something humans do broadly, not just in matters of religion, but monotheisms, which often declare that there's only one "real" or "true" god, unfortunately seem to lend themselves more to that sort of zealotry than non-theistic religions or polytheistic religions.



I don't. I think Islam is wrong for me as a religion, because I could never limit myself to worshiping a single deity. There are too many beautiful and sacred things out there in the world for me to do that. I also just don't connect with Abrahamic mythos. It's not my literary genre, so to speak. The aesthetic isn't appealing. And aesthetic is very important; so much of religion is storytelling, and if I don't like the aesthetic of the story, I won't go see the movie.

Each person gains different things from Islam.

I remember being a person who never laughs. A depressed person and one who would always asks why that happened to me, am I the only person suffering in this world. And above all, I was racist.

Islam taught me how to smile to people, even those who I don't know because smiling to your brother is considered a charity.

I became happy with whatever I get because I know it is from Allah, the Creator of everything and I know that patience is the key to heaven and that I will be awarded for every single action or thing I commit.

I learned that whatever happens is actually only a part of this short life and that we will all die.

Now when I am faced by death of people who really mean to me, I know that I must say "To Allah we belong and to Him we shall return".

I am not racist even in my slightest actions,

49:13

O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.

 

[LuisDantas]

Quraan is not a book of science that explicitly discusses things. But it has scientific signs.

If that Yusuf Estes video is any indication, they are being very counter-productive.

 

[Shad]

Quraan is not a book of science that explicitly discusses things. But it has scientific signs.

Perhaps they are somehow vague, but the amount of these makes one begin wondering if they are just flukes. There are some things that a man won't even think about writing 1400 years ago/

The reason is because of what I said, Quraan doesn't explicitly discuss it but rather has hints.

Take for example saying mountains as pegs. Isn't that clear enough?

Yes they are clear now because now we actually know what it is really meant.

Quraan always has something new to offer as time goes by. It is like it never gets old. This is the miracle of the Quraan


41:53

We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?

This is post hoc rationalization. Your miracle is a fallacy.

 

[Quintessence]

Now when I am faced by death of people who really mean to me, I know that I must say "To Allah we belong and to Him we shall return".

This is interesting, because there is a very similar saying among the contemporary Pagan community. There are variants of it within our community, but the essence of it is the same - there's a sense of being part of something grander than yourself or humanity. Many find comfort in that.

 

[Sabour]

If that Yusuf Estes video is any indication, they are being very counter-productive.

I post many videos for him, which video did you mean ?

 

[Sabour]

This is interesting, because there is a very similar saying among the contemporary Pagan community. There are variants of it within our community, but the essence of it is the same - there's a sense of being part of something grander than yourself or humanity. Many find comfort in that.

Well I think we all seek for something to be part of, even those who say we don't so I prefer to direct it towards what I view is the truth

 

[LuisDantas]

I post many videos for him, which video did you mean ?

This one.

[youtube]q_uOwT-H8w4[/youtube]

 

[beenie]

Shariah law is NOT fair to everyone... women, homosexuals, and non-Muslims, to name a few.

 

[LuisDantas]

Well I think we all seek for something to be part of, even those who say we don't so I prefer to direct it towards what I view is the truth

We all - or very nearly all - do indeed enjoy or crave being "part of something bigger". But not at the expense of basic expression of individual traits. Some tradeoffs are unavoidable, but there is definitely a danger of going way too far.

 

[Phil25]

Secular democracy is man made, Sharia law is according to the Quraan, according to the Word of God.

If correctly followed, it will be absolutely fair to everyone.

God argument is not valid. Atheists, Agnostics, Hindus, Buddhists etc, have no reason to believe that Allah even exists. And would you be happy if Biblical law or Catholic Canon Law was applied to you. A Christian similarly believes that these are laws given by God. A Christian can similarly raise the argument that the under Biblical Law, Muslims will be free to practice their religion just that Biblical Law will applied to you. Or how about a Hindu law(Manusmrit) Manusm.

 

[Sabour]

God argument is not valid. Atheists, Agnostics, Hindus, Buddhists etc, have no reason to believe that Allah even exists. And would you be happy if Biblical law or Catholic Canon Law was applied to you. A Christian similarly believes that these are laws given by God. A Christian can similarly raise the argument that the under Biblical Law, Muslims will be free to practice their religion just that Biblical Law will applied to you. Or how about a Hindu law(Manusmrit) Manusm.

I answered according to your Question " why I think that people will love it"

I didn't mean that they will love it when I will tell them it is from God, I meant they will love it when they live it because they would see the fairness.

 

[Phil25]

I answered according to your Question " why I think that people will love it"

I didn't mean that they will love it when I will tell them it is from God, I meant they will love it when they live it because they would see the fairness.

Are you saying that Manusmriti or Canon Law cant ensure Fairness while only Sharia can? And If someone thinks that Canon Law can be more fair and absolutely love it, why should Sharia law be applied to him?

 

[vskipper]

God argument is not valid. Atheists, Agnostics, Hindus, Buddhists etc, have no reason to believe that Allah even exists. And would you be happy if Biblical law or Catholic Canon Law was applied to you. A Christian similarly believes that these are laws given by God. A Christian can similarly raise the argument that the under Biblical Law, Muslims will be free to practice their religion just that Biblical Law will applied to you. Or how about a Hindu law(Manusmrit) Manusm.

A. Hindus do believe in Allah (to a degree)
B. Sharia law requires that religions in the caliph are responsible according to the law of their religion. Formal sharia punishments (hudd) are only applied to Muslims

 

[Phil25]

A. Hindus do believe in Allah (to a degree)
B. Sharia law requires that religions in the caliph are responsible according to the law of their religion. Formal sharia punishments (hudd) are only applied to Muslims

Hindus also believe in Flying Spaghetti Monster(to a degree). Its not hard, considering that Hinduism is a very open and tolerant religion, they can worship any god.
B. And why I might ask, laws should be equal and same for everybody. You can't say that "Oh you are a Christian murderer, you get this punishment, Oh you are Murderer who believes Flying Spaghetti Monster, Ok you get this punishment, Oh you are a Muslim, ok you get this punishment"

This also leads to situations where if I am accused of Murder, and if under Sharia every person is judged by his own religion's laws, I can make my own religion(Phil25ism) where Murder is one of the commandment by gods and is not punishable.

 

[Parsimony]

Quraan is not a book of science that explicitly discusses things. But it has scientific signs.

If it isn't a science book then it should not be argued that it has made scientific predictions.

Perhaps they are somehow vague, but the amount of these makes one begin wondering if they are just flukes. There are some things that a man won't even think about writing 1400 years ago/

They are so vague that I wouldn't even call them flukes. I would call it "not even applicable". For example, I have no idea how you even remotely got string theory out of that one verse.

The reason is because of what I said, Quraan doesn't explicitly discuss it but rather has hints.

If God had put explicit information about advanced scientific matters instead of simply hinting at them, it would have been much easier to argue in favor of its inspired nature. So why didn't He?

Take for example saying mountains as pegs. Isn't that clear enough?

What is "mountains as pegs" even supposed to mean? More importantly, what meaning does it have that would not have already been known to the people living at the time?

Yes they are clear now because now we actually know what it is really meant.

So neither the original author nor those who studied the Quran at the time knew what the those verses actually meant?

Quraan always has something new to offer as time goes by. It is like it never gets old. This is the miracle of the Quraan

People have said the same of the Bible.

41:53

We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?

It hasn't become clear to me at all that it is the truth. Guess I have not seen the signs written of here.

 

[Sabour]

If it isn't a science book then it should not be argued that it has made scientific predictions.

I don't subscribe to that idea. Any book one writes no matter what is it for may have scientific information

They are so vague that I wouldn't even call them flukes. I would call it "not even applicable". For example, I have no idea how you even remotely got string theory out of that one verse.

That is why I recommended to watch some videos so that things are explained clearer.

Here is the link which explains what is the relation

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_112.html

If God had put explicit information about advanced scientific matters instead of simply hinting at them, it would have been much easier to argue in favor of its inspired nature. So why didn't He?

First of all, perhaps that is not what God wants. Explicitly stated information may automatically mean that any one who has access to the Quraan will automatically know that it is really from God. What is the purpose than of living. Maybe everyone would know, had he been sincere or not because it is like the answers are handed to the people. Perhaps this is not the will of God.

Second, maybe people reading the Quraan in the 10th century will find it at fault. As you know, there was a time where the brightest people on mind thought that earth was flat, for example.

I don't know what the exact reason is, but Allah is the All- Wise.

What is "mountains as pegs" even supposed to mean? More importantly, what meaning does it have that would not have already been known to the people living at the time?

Here is another link

The amazing creation of earth and its relationship with mountains - Mountains prevent the earth from shaking and the Noble Quran made the same exact claim!

So neither the original author nor those who studied the Quran at the time knew what the those verses actually meant?

Some things are clear, some verses are not. Quraan always offers something new, even after 1400 years, it is offering new things.

It hasn't become clear to me at all that it is the truth. Guess I have not seen the signs written of here.

I don't think I can prove the truth for you and I don't think any one can for truth can be only found by the one who is seeking it himself. I can only give you directions or hints. It may be useful and it also may not.

 

[sun rise]

A. Hindus do believe in Allah (to a degree)
...

Since Allah means God, that's an easy one. Now I do know that some utter fanatics basically say "I hate your word for God and love my word for God", but that's another question. Here's wikipedia on the etymology of the word

The term Allāh is derived from a contraction of the Arabic definite article al- "the" and ilāh "deity, god" to al-lāh meaning "the [sole] deity, God" (ὁ θεὸς μόνος, ho theos monos).[14] Cognates of the name "Allāh" exist in other Semitic languages, including Hebrew and Aramaic.[15] The corresponding Aramaic form is Alah (אל&#1492, but its emphatic state is Alaha (אלה&#1488. It is written as ܐܠܗܐ (ʼĔlāhā) in Biblical Aramaic and ܐܲܠܵܗܵܐ (ʼAlâhâ) in Syriac as used by the Assyrian Church, both meaning simply "God".[16] Biblical Hebrew mostly uses the plural (but functional singular) form Elohim (אלהי&#1501, but more rarely it also uses the singular form Eloah (אלוה&#1468. In the Sikh scripture of Guru Granth Sahib, the term Allah (Punjabi: ਅਲਹ&#2625 is used 37 times.[17]

 

[Parsimony]

I don't subscribe to that idea. Any book one writes no matter what is it for may have scientific information

So does the Quran have scientifically-reliable information or not?

That is why I recommended to watch some videos so that things are explained clearer.

Here is the link which explains what is the relation

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_112.html

I still don't see how that makes the case any better whatsoever. The connection is still extremely tenuous and may not refer to anything more than the paths of celestial objects through the sky. We don't even know if string theory is correct. What if it turns out not to be correct? Then what would you say of your interpretation that "By heaven furnished with paths;" is a reference to string theory? My guess is that you'd make a reinterpretation. That's a problem. A verse can never be proven false because it can always be reinterpreted to fit with new information, regardless of what the verse originally meant.

First of all, perhaps that is not what God wants. Explicitly stated information may automatically mean that any one who has access to the Quraan will automatically know that it is really from God. What is the purpose than of living.Maybe everyone would know, had he been sincere or not because it is like the answers are handed to the people. Perhaps this is not the will of God.

So God doesn't want everyone to know that the Quran is His word?

Second, maybe people reading the Quraan in the 10th century will find it at fault. As you know, there was a time where the brightest people on mind thought that earth was flat, for example.

I don't know what the exact reason is, but Allah is the All- Wise.

If the Quran had scientific truths in it then it would be true whether people believed it was at fault or not. Besides, how many people believe in things stated in the Quran even though objective evidence of some of those things can never be found? Nobody can test for the historicity of Iblis failing to bow before man, for example. Yet Muslims believe it simply because the Quran states it. That's how religion tends to work: if my Holy Book says X, then X is true whether I have evidence that it is true or not. So if the Quran had directly stated things about Relativity way back then, Muslims would still have accepted it as true.

Here is another link

The amazing creation of earth and its relationship with mountains - Mountains prevent the earth from shaking and the Noble Quran made the same exact claim!

Ever heard of earthquakes?

Some things are clear, some verses are not. Quraan always offers something new, even after 1400 years, it is offering new things.

So no, they didn't know.

I don't think I can prove the truth for you and I don't think any one can for truth can be only found by the one who is seeking it himself. I can only give you directions or hints. It may be useful and it also may not.

If Islam is true, then I invite God to show me that it is true. I pray every night that He gives me guidance. So far I don't feel led that way.

 

[outhouse]

Here is another link

The amazing creation of earth and its relationship with mountains - Mountains prevent the earth from shaking and the Noble Quran made the same exact claim!

Im sorry but why do we let this ludicrous perversion of reality go on?

Cannot anyone step up and stand up for islam and just say stop it!