Your saved as soon as you accept jesus.

[Yes]

Huh? Answer what?

You said you obeyed everything Jesus said. Tell us what you did.

 

[The Hammer]

You said you obeyed everything Jesus said. Tell us what you did.

Why do I have to prove myself to you, so that you can nit-pick and "fix" me? I only need to prove myself to my Gods. Not you personally.

EDIT: I also gave you an answer earlier on. You didn't like it.

 

[Cephus]

Then why won't you tell me what you did?

I did. You said I had to want to know the truth about Jesus. I do want to know the truth about Jesus. Are you now saying that desire is not sufficient? Why do you keep changing your criteria?

 

[Cephus]

Arguing isn't worth it. It get's nothing accomplished, I learned this in this thread. I recommend running while your sanity is still intact.

I'm just demonstrating that these supposed requirements mean nothing. There are tons of theists who claim to have a sure-fire method for finding God, yet when you corner them, they really have no method and when you show their claims just don't work, they make a pile of excuses for their failure, then vanish into the mist.

 

[The Hammer]

I'm just demonstrating that these supposed requirements mean nothing. There are tons of theists who claim to have a sure-fire method for finding God, yet when you corner them, they really have no method and when you show their claims just don't work, they make a pile of excuses for their failure, then vanish into the mist.

I agree, which is why I tried to make the point that -- it does not matter what path one follows, as long as it is the path that works for them.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I..My primary concern about anything, including religion, is whether or not it is factually true in objective reality..

I quite agree with you..
The Bible is based on truth .. people's religions are another matter..

 

[Cephus]

I agree, which is why I tried to make the point that -- it does not matter what path one follows, as long as it is the path that works for them.

But that's not the case. These are people who are making claims about things that actually exist in objective reality. If they were just claiming that their gods existed entirely in their own minds and nowhere else, then it wouldn't matter. However, once they start claiming there are actual gods in the real world, it stops being about what works for them and starts being about what is actually true in reality and how we discover if it's actually so.

 

[Cephus]

I quite agree with you..

But have you gone outside of your religious beliefs to verify them objectively and rationally? Or do you just have faith? Faith is meaningless when it comes to determining fact.

 

[muhammad_isa]

But have you gone outside of your religious beliefs to verify them objectively and rationally?

Oh yes .. most definitely!

Seek and you shall find.. that is, of course, if you WANT to.

 

[Cephus]

Oh yes .. most definitely!

Seek and you shall find.. that is, of course, if you WANT to.

And the question is how have you done so? What objective tests have you put your beliefs through? I know that's hard to address in an online forum, but lots of people claim to have done that, I have yet to find a single one who ever actually has.

 

[AllanV]

So, what if I am not following Christianity, modern or otherwise? I mean, I am a good person. I just don't follow Jesus/God. I have my own sets of Gods I discovered.

It just has to be worked out. What do those gods offer or bring to you.

God works from the inside and is seen by the energy coming out of the person.
When a person is met they place emphasis on words that reflects how their mind works and the thoughts that are present. These words with the emphasis attached are assessed and worked through in own mind and this takes some energy. Some people can wear another down and another can refresh. But every one takes something and that is why we sleep.
The nature of Jesus with the life energy of God fills a void in the hearers. If a person can keep this Spirit they will be immortal.
It is all about the purity of the self and the energy coming off the heart.

 

[jaareshiah]

People think there is some process to go through, but it isn't the case. All one has to do is accept Jesus, and their saved. No magic ceremonies required.

Thanks

Is just accepting Jesus all one has to do to be "saved" ? Days before his death, Jesus told his apostles that "the one who has endured to the end will be saved."(Matt 24:13) In answering the question "are those being saved few ?", Jesus replied: "Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able."(Luke 13:24)

In continuing his words, he gave an illustration, whereby after the "householder" has locked his door, ones comes knocking on his door, asking "Lord, open to us". The "householder" in this illustration is Jesus and the ones "knocking" on his door are individuals who make a profession of being Christian, but their conduct belies who they really are, counterfeit Christians. So as the "householder", Jesus responds: "I do not know where you are from", unwilling to unlock the door for them.(Luke 13:25)

These counterfeit Christians then says: "We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our main streets."(Luke 13:26) These put on a front of being "religious", but their conduct and lifestyle shows who they really are. Jesus, as the "householder", recognizes that these ones as fake, not real Christians, so he now tells them: "I do not know where you are from. Get away from me, all you workers of unrighteousness !"(Luke 13:27)

By their works or code of conduct, they show that they are not genuine, such as Jesus words at Matthew 7. Here he says that many will look like "sheep" on the outside", but are "wolves" on the inside.(Matt 7:15) He further says that "by their fruits you will recognize" who are true Christians that have endurance down "the end" and those who are the fakes that believe that just accepting Jesus as their "Lord" will be saved, saying that no works are required at all.(Matt 7:16)

In the Bible book of Revelation, Jesus tells ones from the congregation of Symrna: "Do not be afraid of the things you are about to suffer. Look ! The Devil will keep on throwing some of you into prison so that you may be fully put to the test, and you will have tribulation for ten days (the number ten stands for completeness, such as the "ten plagues" or "Ten Words"). So this stands for the necessity of a person to maintain their integrity till death). Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life."(Rev 2:10) Hence, anyone who failed to remain loyal to our Maker, Jehovah God, till death, would be denied life. Only by endurance till death could these ones receive "the crown of life".

Over in the Bible book of Ezekiel, it says: "The righteousness of the righteous man will not save him when he revolts; nor will the wickedness of the wicked man make him stumble when he turns away from his wickedness; nor will anyone righteous be able to keep living because of his righteousness in the day that he sins."(Eze 33:12)

And at Ezekiel 33:18, it says: "When someone righteous abandons his righteousness and does what is wrong, he must die for it." Thence, there is no just accepting Jesus and being saved, but a person has to prove their loyalty to Jehovah God till "the end" or death, if necessary.

 

[The Hammer]

But that's not the case. These are people who are making claims about things that actually exist in objective reality. If they were just claiming that their gods existed entirely in their own minds and nowhere else, then it wouldn't matter. However, once they start claiming there are actual gods in the real world, it stops being about what works for them and starts being about what is actually true in reality and how we discover if it's actually so.

I believe my Gods exist in reality, but I make no claim that they are the only ones. I don't claim that these Gods are for everyone, or that everyone needs to follow them. I also know that they cannot be "factually proven", nor does that bother me. I have a rather loose definition of reality though, so...

 

[Cephus]

I believe my Gods exist in reality, but I make no claim that they are the only ones. And I don't claim that these Gods are for everyone, or that everyone needs to follow them. I have a rather loose definition of reality though, so....

But see, I'm not really interested in what people believe, I care about what they can prove. I care if they can defend their claims about reality and, unfortunately, theists of all stripes cannot do so. None of them can, especially when it comes to the supposed supernatural. Yet they mostly claim that they can and will do all kinds of absurd dance steps to get around the inherent irrationality of what they believe. There's no such thing as "true for you". There's "true" and there's "not true".

 

[The Hammer]

But see, I'm not really interested in what people believe, I care about what they can prove. I care if they can defend their claims about reality and, unfortunately, theists of all stripes cannot do so. None of them can, especially when it comes to the supposed supernatural. Yet they mostly claim that they can and will do all kinds of absurd dance steps to get around the inherent irrationality of what they believe. There's no such thing as "true for you". There's "true" and there's "not true".

That is most certainly your opinion. And like I said I know that my Gods, and my religion cannot be "proven". And I am perfectly ok with that. But I am one of the few people that will readily admit that.

I don't care if people believe only in facts, or they believe in the FSM. As long as they aren't forcing those views on others, and they are allowing society to step forward into secular directions.

I prefer suspended disbelief, over 100% factual reality. The ceremonies, rituals and holidays have meaning, and comfort and community associated with them. That's enough for me.

 

[The Hammer]

It just has to be worked out. What do those gods offer or bring to you.

God works from the inside and is seen by the energy coming out of the person.
When a person is met they place emphasis on words that reflects how their mind works and the thoughts that are present. These words with the emphasis attached are assessed and worked through in own mind and this takes some energy. Some people can wear another down and another can refresh. But every one takes something and that is why we sleep.
The nature of Jesus with the life energy of God fills a void in the hearers. If a person can keep this Spirit they will be immortal.
It is all about the purity of the self and the energy coming off the heart.

My Gods offer me the ability to live by the virtues I hold dear:

1. COURAGE
2. HONESTY
3. HONOR
4. FIDELITY
5. STRENGTH
6. HOSPITALITY
7. INDUSTRIOUSNESS
8. SELF RELIANCE
9. PERSEVERANCE

They offer steadfastness for those who are willing to stand on their own, and defend what is theirs. They offer the chance to live amongst the Halls of the Fallen upon death.

 

[AllanV]

My Gods offer me the ability to live by the virtues I hold dear:

1. COURAGE
2. HONESTY
3. HONOR
4. FIDELITY
5. STRENGTH
6. HOSPITALITY
7. INDUSTRIOUSNESS
8. SELF RELIANCE
9. PERSEVERANCE

They offer steadfastness for those who are willing to stand on their own, and defend what is theirs. They offer the chance to live amongst the Halls of the Fallen upon death.

Probably the only one there that can be a problem is self reliance.
Is the self completely pure, is the personality perfect.
I lived by those the best that could be and went into the bush on a purchased rural property. After two years of not having been continually tested by others my mind was opened up to the existence of God a little deeper and just beyond it.

 

[The Hammer]

Probably the only one there that can be a problem is self reliance.
Is the self completely pure, is the personality perfect.
I lived by those the best that could be and went into the bush on a purchased rural property. After two years of not having been continually tested by others my mind was opened up to the existence of God a little deeper and just beyond it.

This is the what is meant by the self reliance bit: Self Reliance is the spirit of independence, which is achieved not only for the individual, but also for the family, clan, tribe and nation. It is not a concept of denying ones interconnectedness with others, but of ensuring that one can take care of oneself first, then ones family and loved ones, then the extended family (clan), the tribe (ones local grouping) and the nation (all true folk no matter where they reside). By being self-reliant we can then share what we have with others and fulfil the duty of Hospitality, the entire better.

 

[Cephus]

My Gods offer me the ability to live by the virtues I hold dear:

1. COURAGE
2. HONESTY
3. HONOR
4. FIDELITY
5. STRENGTH
6. HOSPITALITY
7. INDUSTRIOUSNESS
8. SELF RELIANCE
9. PERSEVERANCE

They offer steadfastness for those who are willing to stand on their own, and defend what is theirs. They offer the chance to live amongst the Halls of the Fallen upon death.

And you can't do any of that on your own?

 

[AllanV]

This is the what is meant by the self reliance bit: Self Reliance is the spirit of independence, which is achieved not only for the individual, but also for the family, clan, tribe and nation. It is not a concept of denying ones interconnectedness with others, but of ensuring that one can take care of oneself first, then ones family and loved ones, then the extended family (clan), the tribe (ones local grouping) and the nation (all true folk no matter where they reside). By being self-reliant we can then share what we have with others and fulfil the duty of Hospitality, the entire better.

The families good but as one moves out into the wider community it becomes something of a battle ground. Some people don't like some of the attributes you mention when they are seen in others.

Also children grow into teenagers and they move around and bring the battle ground to the home.