Zionism

[Shermana]

Just give me the girl on the left in the first picture first girl in the second picture and we'll call it even. Unless of course you wanna add the one in the last picture as a gesture of good faith...

You're asking a major sacrifice here. Trading the finer women for peace....

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

You're asking a major sacrifice here. Trading the finer women for peace....

Hard time call for high demands; you know the business.

 

[Shermana]

Hard time call for high demands; you know the business.

Alright I've thought it over, being the generous person I am, instead of holding out and fighting, I will acquiesce.

Besides, I've found replacements.

Now I don't think Ethiopian Falashim like Israela Avtua here count as biological Israelites, but not all my offspring need to be 100% Israelite.

Moderator cut: image removed

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Well played, my friend... Well played...

 

[Shermana]

Don't get me wrong though, the other girls I'm handing over are going to be missed.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Don't get me wrong though, the other girls I'm handing over are going to be missed.

All in the name of peace right? If only the actual Israeli conflict were this easy to settle...

 

[1robin]

Just because they can't win doesn't mean they shouldn't try.

Actually in this case it should. Israel not being Islamic offers all of it's citizens full rights and Muslims can even vote. It has an independent press (the only one in the middle east) and has a thriving economy. The Palestinians are protecting nothing. They would gain in every way if Israel was allowed to control the whole area.

The prospect of defeat didn't stop the Spartans at Thermopylae, or Saigo Takamori at the battle of Shiroyama.

You are making a mistake choosing military history to use on me. I am an amateur historian and specialize in military history. The Spartans sacrificed 300 to delay the Persians long enough to mobilize their entire army. The army defeated Persia and forced them back to ASIA. Sparta had no idea what the word defeat meant. However unlike Palestine they fought man to man and did not snipe at children. Takamori held the strange and just plain insane Bushido Code. That meant there was no life after defeat. They could not give up as it was not allowed by their morally chaotic philosophy and ethics. I do not think crazy is a good reason to fight and I regard death before dishonor when no victory can be attained and your people will not be killed or tortured a despicable act. The Japanese of the past are not a moral model for anyone nor even a military one.

Both of these armies knew they were outnumbered and overpowered, but chose death over subjugation.

Only if subjugation would bring mistreatment would resistance be logical when victory is impossible. That situation does not exist in Israel.

As for snipers, kidnappings, etc, Israel has also caused their fair share of civilian casualties, so don't go acting as if the Palestinians are the only ones with blood on their hands. I'm by no means saying the Palestinians are in the right; I'm completely neutral as to who has a "right" to the land. In my opinion, neither of them do. War is war, and as long as they continue this war people will die.

There is a great difference between the two. Palestinians target and intentionally kill civilians as a general practice. When Israel is forced to kill civilians it is almost always because the Muslims have hidden their rocket launchers in a school or hospital. I am sure a few exceptions exist but that is how it goes down in general. Not only that but in many cases the civilians that the Palestinians have kidnapped or the Muslims have captured are not only killed but mutilated. Especially in the early days of the conflict. The only motivation the Palestinians actually have is commitment to a false religion and hope their pathetic Muslin neighbors can eventually learn to fight and invade all at once. However even that is out because Israel has nukes and will melt the whole place if forced to. Tell me this why don't the Christian Palestinians feel the same necessity to fight that the Muslim Palestinians do? There land has suffered the same fate yet their heart are not as bitter or vengeful apparently.

 

[1robin]

Come on guys, Girls in underwear or uniforms are nice to look at but they do not help resolve these issues. In fact no one even remembers what the issues are after seeing one of them.

 

[Flankerl]

All of this and you still have yet to answer the question I asked specifically. Also, it was believed for centuries that the world was flat and the sun revolved around it. Being an old idea doesn't necessarily make it more right...

What question?
Are they jews? No? So Judaism has no opinion about it. End of the answer.

Seriously what do i care about them? I dont.


Really you are comparing the self identification of a group of people that goes back thousands of years with the idea that the world was flat(fun fact: even back in ancient greece this wasnt believed)?
You are really trying.

What I don't understand is how a religion can carry over the same standards. No other religion does this.

Actually most ethnoreligious people work that way. If you join the tribe you are part of the tribe. Doesnt matter what was before because you are one of them.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I'm talking about people who aren't native to the land. Being Jewish doesn't change your ancestry, it just makes you Jewish. Yes you can consider a Chinese Jew ethnically Jewish, but if your argument is that the Jews were the first people of Israel, and thus deserve to have their rightful land back, what gives the people with no ancestral ties to the land the same right?

You are making no utter sense and you are picking bias sides without the slightest bit of reasoning being involved. For example.......

You just said that a Jew born in Israel is not native to that land? But a non native is? How on earth are you deciding this? I am specifically referring to Jews who are returning to their land after centuries of subjugation. Their ancestry is a fact and it is not their fault for not being born in their native land despite their willingness to be there. Filistinians have their land and should either return to it or live under Israeli governing

Jews HAVE ancestral heritage to Israel.....Filistinians don't. They are the ones who bared Jews from Israel. The upsurge of the Khalifa is responsible for this obviously.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

You are making no utter sense and you are picking bias sides without the slightest bit of reasoning being involved. For example.......

I never once picked a side, I said neither side has an unalienable right to the land. How is that being biased or unreasonable?

You just said that a Jew born in Israel is not native to that land? But a non native is? How on earth are you deciding this? I am specifically referring to Jews who are returning to their land after centuries of subjugation. Their ancestry is a fact and it is not their fault for not being born in their native land despite their willingness to be there. Filistinians have their land and should either return to it or live under Israeli governing

Never once did I say a Jew born in Israel isn't native to the land... Don't put words in my mouth. You're also putting words in my mouth if you're suggesting I said the Israelis should give the land back. I'm not sure you completely understand my stance, even though I've explained it multiple times.

Jews HAVE ancestral heritage to Israel.....Filistinians don't. They are the ones who bared Jews from Israel. The upsurge of the Khalifa is responsible for this obviously.

I'm not doubting their ancestral heritage. I'm saying it doesn't matter. Just as it doesn't matter how the "Filistinians" came to be on the land. The Caliphate took the land, and now it belongs to Israel again. Nobody had more of a right to the land, the strongest army will just hold on to it.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Actually in this case it should. Israel not being Islamic offers all of it's citizens full rights and Muslims can even vote. It has an independent press (the only one in the middle east) and has a thriving economy. The Palestinians are protecting nothing. They would gain in every way if Israel was allowed to control the whole area.

The Native Americans had industrialization and all the conveniences that came with it to gain if they just rolled over and accepted the European conquest of the area, but that didn't stop all of them from defending their homes. I do realize some tribes chose to assimilate, but that doesn't make them any smarter or more admirable than the ones that decided to fight.

You are making a mistake choosing military history to use on me. I am an amateur historian and specialize in military history. The Spartans sacrificed 300 to delay the Persians long enough to mobilize their entire army. The army defeated Persia and forced them back to ASIA. Sparta had no idea what the word defeat meant. However unlike Palestine they fought man to man and did not snipe at children. Takamori held the strange and just plain insane Bushido Code. That meant there was no life after defeat. They could not give up as it was not allowed by their morally chaotic philosophy and ethics. I do not think crazy is a good reason to fight and I regard death before dishonor when no victory can be attained and your people will not be killed or tortured a despicable act. The Japanese of the past are not a moral model for anyone nor even a military one.

Says you... I believe the Spartans and the Samurai were the truest warriors that ever lived. The 300 Spartans that held the Persians back at Thermopylae knew they were all going to die, yet sacrificed themselves in defense of their homes and families. I understand that the Greek eventually forced the Persians back into Asia, but the battle of Thermopylae is still considered a defeat (albeit an admirable one) by any military historian you ask. And while you may find Bushido to be "insane", I believe it to be an honorable code. If you're fighting for something you truly believe in, defeat or surrender should never even be considered as options. The samurai would die before they allowed themselves to be subjugated, and fought bravely against an army they knew to be larger and more advanced. One man's insanity is another man's greatness.

Only if subjugation would bring mistreatment would resistance be logical when victory is impossible. That situation does not exist in Israel.

If a foreign army were to invade my home, I would fight them to the death regardless of their motivation/intent.

There is a great difference between the two. Palestinians target and intentionally kill civilians as a general practice. When Israel is forced to kill civilians it is almost always because the Muslims have hidden their rocket launchers in a school or hospital. I am sure a few exceptions exist but that is how it goes down in general. Not only that but in many cases the civilians that the Palestinians have kidnapped or the Muslims have captured are not only killed but mutilated. Especially in the early days of the conflict. The only motivation the Palestinians actually have is commitment to a false religion and hope their pathetic Muslin neighbors can eventually learn to fight and invade all at once. However even that is out because Israel has nukes and will melt the whole place if forced to.

Killing civilians is killing civilians, whether you find the reason to be justifiable or not. There have been civilian casualties on both sides, no matter which one you choose to demonize.

Tell me this why don't the Christian Palestinians feel the same necessity to fight that the Muslim Palestinians do? There land has suffered the same fate yet their heart are not as bitter or vengeful apparently.

They don't have the same fighting spirit, as was the case with the Native Americans. Some assimilated and others refused subjugation. Which of them made the "right" decision is entirely a matter of perspective.

 

[nash8]

ISLAM, I agree with you for the most part that fighting to the death for something you believe in is honorable. But what if you were fighting to the death to defend the right to rape little children. Is it honorable then?

I don't know exactly what the Japenese were fighting for in WWII. I would assume conquest, expansion, and other generally imperialistic ideals, but the fact is that they were fighting on the side of a country that desired to eradicate an entire race of people, which I find in no way honorable, whether they were fighting to the death or not.

 

[nash8]

I havent read the entire discussion, but it seems to me that there are huge portions of this argument missing.

1. According to the rules of modern society (which I don't personally agree with), he who wins the war takes the land. The Brittish empire defeated the Ottoman empire in WWI, and gained the "right" to own the land now known as Palestine from the Ottoman empire. Like it was stated above, what gave the Romans the "right" to take Israel, or the Muslims to take it from the Romans, or the English to take it from the Muslims during the Crusades, Superior Force.

2. The Jews claim the right to to the land because it was the birthplace of their religion. Does that give them a right to it I dunno? What gives anyone the right to do anything for that matter?

3. In reality the Jews were given Israel, because Jewish bankers basically own England due to massive loans given to the state of England going back to the 1500's. If the Jewish Banking system were to stop giving money to the English Governemt the economy would collapse, much like how it is in america now. If the federal reserve (A system of private banks) were to quit giving money to the U.S. Government the economy would collapse. I'm sure the are a fair share of Zionist among the elite Jewish Bankers, and they told England to make Israel a home for the Jews or we quit loaning you money. As a leader of England, do you compromise your entire financial system for a small peice of desert along th Jordan River?

4. The other key concept that I have not seen mentioned is that the Arabian Muslims outcast the Palestinians just as much as the Jews do. When all this started many Palestinians tried to migrate to surrounding Arab countries, and they would not let them come into their countries. Saudi Arabia and Iran would rather "sacrifice" the Palestinians to create conflict in Israel rather than give them safe haven in their own countries in provide peace in the region. Most of the Palestinian terrorist groups are funded by Iran or Saudi Arabia.

5. Last but definitiely not least, the true elite of society could give a **** less about any form of religion or ethnicity. The oil Sheiks of the Middle East, the elite Jewish bankers, the American and European Corporate Tycoons, they are all in cahootz together and don't give a damn about what religion or ethnicity one another are is long as their group maintains control. All they care about is control, and the easisest way to control people is to induce fear. The conflict in the Middle East is an easily controllable way to induce a large amount of fear over the whole world, so why would they help to create peace when it's so easy to let ignorant people fight over stupid ideas that they care nothing about?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

ISLAM, I agree with you for the most part that fighting to the death for something you believe in is honorable. But what if you were fighting to the death to defend the right to rape little children. Is it honorable then?

I don't know exactly what the Japenese were fighting for in WWII. I would assume conquest, expansion, and other generally imperialistic ideals, but the fact is that they were fighting on the side of a country that desired to eradicate an entire race of people, which I find in no way honorable, whether they were fighting to the death or not.

1)I highly doubt the Palestinians are fighting for "the right to rape little children"... If you weren't talking about them, I apologize for misquoting you.
If this is just a hypothetical question, I'd say the cause is irrelevant.

2)I was talking about the samurai, not the Japanese. The shogunate collapsed a long time before WWII. It was those who defeated the samurai (the Japanese Empire) that fought in WWII.

 

[Levite]

I havent read the entire discussion, but it seems to me that there are huge portions of this argument missing.


3. In reality the Jews were given Israel, because Jewish bankers basically own England due to massive loans given to the state of England going back to the 1500's. If the Jewish Banking system were to stop giving money to the English Governemt the economy would collapse, much like how it is in america now....I'm sure the are a fair share of Zionist among the elite Jewish Bankers, and they told England to make Israel a home for the Jews or we quit loaning you money. ....

5. Last but definitiely not least, the true elite of society could give a **** less about any form of religion or ethnicity. The oil Sheiks of the Middle East, the elite Jewish bankers, the American and European Corporate Tycoons, they are all in cahootz together and don't give a damn about what religion or ethnicity one another are is long as their group maintains control....

This represents thought taken from classic anti-Semitic libels. There is, in fact, no "conspiracy" or "dominating organization" of "Jewish bankers." The characterization of Jews as money-grubbing secretive financial manipulators is a canard that goes back to the Middle Ages, and achieved perhaps its best known form in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the infamous anti-Semitic pamphlet published by the Okhrana (the Czarist secret police).

These ideas are both entirely inaccurate and extremely offensive.

 

[Juhurka]

This entire argument is worthless just for the FACT that Israel is the land of the Jews and Arabs are the conquerors, once the idea is accepted, there will be peace, no other cure is available simply because the claim that it is Arab land is a lie and lies don't last long.

You cannot accomplish peace based on lies just like you cannot give charity with stolen money.

 

[nash8]

If you're fighting for something you truly believe in, defeat or surrender should never even be considered as options. The samurai would die before they allowed themselves to be subjugated, and fought bravely against an army they knew to be larger and more advanced. One man's insanity is another man's greatness.

I wasn't talking about the palestinians, I was stating a hypothetical question. And your response to that was that the cause for fighting to the death is irrelevant?

So according to your logic, fighting to the death no matter what cause you are fighting for is honorable?

 

[nash8]

This entire argument is worthless just for the FACT that Israel is the land of the Jews and Arabs are the conquerors, once the idea is accepted, there will be peace, no other cure is available simply because the claim that it is Arab land is a lie and lies don't last long.

You cannot accomplish peace based on lies just like you cannot give charity with stolen money.

Wasn't it the Romans who took Israel from the Jews first, and didn't the Arabs take it from the Romans? Israel is neither Arab or Jewish land. No land can be inherently possessed by any race of humanity. In our society it is simply that whoever has the strongest military force controls whatever land they choose. The fact that Arab countries have tried to take Israel from Jewish control numerous times and failed, I would say that Jewish people have the strongest military force, thus they have the right to the land according to the rules of modern society.

And if someone stole money they could definitely give it to charity, what makes you think that.

 

[Juhurka]

Wasn't it the Romans who took Israel from the Jews first, and didn't the Arabs take it from the Romans? Israel is neither Arab or Jewish land. No land can be inherently possessed by any race of humanity. In our society it is simply that whoever has the strongest military force controls whatever land they choose. The fact that Arab countries have tried to take Israel from Jewish control numerous times and failed, I would say that Jewish people have the strongest military force, thus they have the right to the land according to the rules of modern society.

And if someone stole money they could definitely give it to charity, what makes you think that.

Telling a Jew that Israel is not his land is like telling a French guy that he is not from France, regardless of who took what and from whom.