Stuff Republicans say.

[esmith]

Your link does not go where you think it does when I clicked on it. It went to Abdulhaseeb v. Calbone, No. 08-6092 - U.S. Tenth Circuit But when I went to that link I found a blog not a discussion of the law.

Personally the text of the law does indeed follow roughly the text of the Federal law. But the reaction is more about the sudden passing of such laws just when there's a decent chance the Supreme Court will legalize gay marriage. So the reaction is more about the motives rather than the text. And there's legitimate concern on the part of a number of people about how the law will be used in practice not in theory assuming gay marriage does become legal. And to be fair, most of the media will sensationalize everything whether conservative or liberal.

You are correct and for some reason the story is no longer on the indystar.com web sight. However, here is the bill
Here it is: The text of Indiana's ‘religious freedom’ law

 

[esmith]

Your link does not go where you think it does when I clicked on it. It went to Abdulhaseeb v. Calbone, No. 08-6092 - U.S. Tenth Circuit But when I went to that link I found a blog not a discussion of the law.

Personally the text of the law does indeed follow roughly the text of the Federal law. But the reaction is more about the sudden passing of such laws just when there's a decent chance the Supreme Court will legalize gay marriage. So the reaction is more about the motives rather than the text. And there's legitimate concern on the part of a number of people about how the law will be used in practice not in theory assuming gay marriage does become legal. And to be fair, most of the media will sensationalize everything whether conservative or liberal.

You are correct and for some reason the story is no longer on the indystar.com web sight. However, here is the bill
Here it is: The text of Indiana's ‘religious freedom’ law

Well after looking I found the link. Let see if it still is valid
Swarens: Gov. Mike Pence to push for clarification of ‘religious freedom’ law

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Jeez, there's a place where Blue Laws still exist???? And I thought we were backward here in the South because we can't buy wine in a grocery store.

As far as I know Indiana is the only state with such a law still on the books.

Well after looking I found the link. Let see if it still is valid
Swarens: Gov. Mike Pence to push for clarification of ‘religious freedom’ law

He can explain it any way he wants, there is a very clear pattern of far-right conservationism running the show here. Former governor Daniels called a cease-fire on social issues in the state, and though I don't remember who it was somebody in the state senate ridiculed the notion of "social issues" and wanted anti-GLBT measures back up for discussion. And while I'm on Daniels and we're on how governors explain things, Daniels tried to say Indiana going right-to-work suddenly brought in some new businesses, even though these new businesses he was citing already had plans to come here before the right-to-work bill was passed.
Prior to this bill there were no overbearing restrictions on religion coming from the state. None. People think of Texas, Kansas, or Arkansas when they think of Conservative states, but Indiana is right up their with them, including on trying to push evolution out of the science high-school curriculum in favor of creationism (actually, the only reason it didn't pass is because the language of that bill was so broad it would have allowed any religious creation mytho to be taught as science). Indiana has just never caught national attention like those other states until now.
There is also the issue of economic damage, which is not debatable. It has been done. All because a non-existing issue had to be taken care of.

 

[Marisa]

As far as I know Indiana is the only state with such a law still on the books.

He can explain it any way he wants, there is a very clear pattern of far-right conservationism running the show here. Former governor Daniels called a cease-fire on social issues in the state, and though I don't remember who it was somebody in the state senate ridiculed the notion of "social issues" and wanted anti-GLBT measures back up for discussion. And while I'm on Daniels and we're on how governors explain things, Daniels tried to say Indiana going right-to-work suddenly brought in some new businesses, even though these new businesses he was citing already had plans to come here before the right-to-work bill was passed.
Prior to this bill there were no overbearing restrictions on religion coming from the state. None. People think of Texas, Kansas, or Arkansas when they think of Conservative states, but Indiana is right up their with them, including on trying to push evolution out of the science high-school curriculum in favor of creationism (actually, the only reason it didn't pass is because the language of that bill was so broad it would have allowed any religious creation mytho to be taught as science). Indiana has just never caught national attention like those other states until now.
There is also the issue of economic damage, which is not debatable. It has been done. All because a non-existing issue had to be taken care of.

Tennessee was willing to drive (pun intended) Volkswagen out the state over RTW. This state needs nothing so much as it needs jobs.

 

[esmith]

As far as I know Indiana is the only state with such a law still on the books..

Are you saying that Indiana is the only state, including Federal law, with laws about Religious rights or restoration? If so then how do you account for the following:

19 states that have ‘religious freedom’ laws like Indiana’s that no one is boycotting - The Washington Post

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Are you saying that Indiana is the only state, including Federal law, with laws about Religious rights or restoration? If so then how do you account for the following:

19 states that have ‘religious freedom’ laws like Indiana’s that no one is boycotting - The Washington Post

Let's go through this backwards for a moment.

As far as I know Indiana is the only state with such a law still on the books.

Jeez, there's a place where Blue Laws still exist???? And I thought we were backward here in the South because we can't buy wine in a grocery store.

Good god, we, tax paying legal-aged adults, can't even buy alcohol on Sundays because it's so conservative here.

 

[esmith]

Are you saying that Indiana is the only state, including Federal law, with laws about Religious rights or restoration? If so then how do you account for the following:

19 states that have ‘religious freedom’ laws like Indiana’s that no one is boycotting - The Washington Post

Let's go through this backwards for a moment.

Shadow Wolf said: ↑
As far as I know Indiana is the only state with such a law still on the books.

Marisa said: ↑
Jeez, there's a place where Blue Laws still exist???? And I thought we were backward here in the South because we can't buy wine in a grocery store.

Shadow Wolf said: ↑
Good god, we, tax paying legal-aged adults, can't even buy alcohol on Sundays because it's so conservative here.

There are other states that you can not purchase alcohol on Sunday and many other type of laws that could be considered "blue laws" as far as alcohol goes
Here Are The Rules To Buying Alcohol In Each State's Grocery Stores

 

[Marisa]

There are other states that you can not purchase alcohol on Sunday and many other type of laws that could be considered "blue laws" as far as alcohol goes
Here Are The Rules To Buying Alcohol In Each State's Grocery Stores

Maybe you're confused on what a Blue Law is? Blue Laws aren't restricted to alcohol and where you can buy it. When I was a kid growing up in Texas, there were NO stores open on Sundays, except 7-11, and in 7-11 the beer cooler was padlocked shut. By "no stores" I mean not even grocery stores, no malls were open (except the theater).

Blue law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[esmith]

Maybe you're confused on what a Blue Law is? Blue Laws aren't restricted to alcohol and where you can buy it. When I was a kid growing up in Texas, there were NO stores open on Sundays, except 7-11, and in 7-11 the beer cooler was padlocked shut. By "no stores" I mean not even grocery stores, no malls were open (except the theater).

Blue law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ok I see where I went wrong in my statement. I should have not added "as far as alcohol goes" to the end of my statement. I do know what "blue laws refer to and for you edification in the history of blue laws
Blue Laws legal definition of Blue Laws

 

[Marisa]

Ok I see where I went wrong in my statement. I should have not added "as far as alcohol goes" to the end of my statement. I do know what "blue laws refer to and for you edification in the history of blue laws
Blue Laws legal definition of Blue Laws

Whoa, I meant no insult, my friend. There are lots of people that don't know what Blue Laws are, as they are for the most part going the way of the dinosaur.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There are other states that you can not purchase alcohol on Sunday and many other type of laws that could be considered "blue laws" as far as alcohol goes
Here Are The Rules To Buying Alcohol In Each State's Grocery Stores

No, Indiana is it. This state allows no alcohol, at all, to be purchased on Sunday.
Current Blue Law States - ProhibitionRepeal.com
#1 Sunday Liquor Sales Bans
12 States continue to cling to Prohibition-era Blue Laws banning Sunday liquor sales. They include: Alabama, Indiana, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, and West Virginia. Notably, Indiana is the only state in the country that bans beer, wine and liquor on Sundays.
It's allowed in grocery stores here, but grocery stores cannot sell cold beer and liquor stores cannot sell cold soft drinks.

 

[sun rise]

All of which is a distraction about the evil of today's republican party. This is the latest example. Guess who gets a bill that allows more immigration and who is not considered to be fully worthy or perhaps even a bit subhuman? Who cares about children fleeing evil? They don't. Who do they care about? Privileged people who are annoyed by their government. After all, they're the only ones worthy of protection. Gays? Hate them. Blacks? Hate them unless they think our way. Brown people? Feh. Spanish-speakers? We'll hire them as gardeners but don't really want them amongst us. Muslims? Forget it. The list goes on and on.

The House Judiciary Committee passed a bill Wednesday that would allow people to seek asylum in the USA if they are persecuted by their governments for homeschooling their children. At the same time, the bill would make it tougher for children fleeing gang and drug violence in Central America to gain refuge here.

House panel approves asylum bill for homeschoolers

 

[Shadow Wolf]

One day people may wake and realize that while neither Democrats nor Republicans are good, the Republicans are, by far, much more tolerant of bigotry.
Florida Republican introduces draconian anti-transgender bill - Salon.com
A Republican state legislator in Florida has introduced a bill that would prohibit transgender people from using facilities that correspond to their gender identities, legislation rooted in thoroughly debunked fears that allowing trans people access to such accommodations would lead to sexual assault and violations of privacy.
Calif. AG asks judge to halt initiative to kill gays
OS ANGELES -- California Attorney General Kamala Harris asked a state court Wednesday for an order allowing her to avoid processing a citizen-proposed anti-gay ballot measure that calls for executing gays with "bullets to the head."

 

[metis]

Most of the states that have a somewhat similar law like Indiana has also have laws on the books that forbid discrimination in the marketplace against gays but Indiana doesn't. In an interview yesterday, George Stefanopolous asked Pense four times if a wedding-cake maker could refuse to bake a cake for a gay couple getting married, and four times Pense refused to answer it by dodging the question and accusing George of tying to make Indiana look bad.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Most of the states that have a somewhat similar law like Indiana has also have laws on the books that forbid discrimination in the marketplace against gays but Indiana doesn't. In an interview yesterday, George Stefanopolous asked Pense four times if a wedding-cake maker could refuse to bake a cake for a gay couple getting married, and four times Pense refused to answer it by dodging the question and accusing George of tying to make Indiana look bad.

LMAO!! Indiana looks bad without this Stefanopolous helping.
Indiana is mostly unhappy, study shows - TheIndyChannel.com
INDIANAPOLIS - If you live in Indiana, there's a good chance you are unhappy.
And, yes, a ton of people are very unhappy here and perhaps the most talked about thing among the youth and young adults is getting away from here. Moving out of this state is actually a topic that I can rely on to talk to other people around my age because so many of us have it as a goal.

 

[Marisa]

Most of the states that have a somewhat similar law like Indiana has also have laws on the books that forbid discrimination in the marketplace against gays but Indiana doesn't. In an interview yesterday, George Stefanopolous asked Pense four times if a wedding-cake maker could refuse to bake a cake for a gay couple getting married, and four times Pense refused to answer it by dodging the question and accusing George of tying to make Indiana look bad.

I just saw on CNN that Indiana's speaker is "open" to "clarifying" this issue with additional legislation.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I just saw on CNN that Indiana's speaker is "open" to "clarifying" this issue with additional legislation.

Yes, but we also get politicians in the running who believe "compromise" means Democrats submitting to Conservative ideology.

 

[Marisa]

Yes, but we also get politicians in the running who believe "compromise" means Democrats submitting to Conservative ideology.

True. If there is "clarification" on this law that has the end result being Indiana's businesses can't refuse to serve LGBT, I will be surprised.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

True. If there is "clarification" on this law that has the end result being Indiana's businesses can't refuse to serve LGBT, I will be surprised.

Yes. There is just so much anti-GLBT sentiment coming from the state legislation, who are so predictably socially and economically conservative, for so many years, that claims of this bill being innocent seem dubious. Even if all the claims that this bill will allow for discrimination are false, the state brought such criticisms upon itself.

 

[sun rise]

I just read a letter by a number of lawyers discussing the Indiana bill http://web.law.columbia.edu/sites/d...ity/law_professors_letter_on_indiana_rfra.pdf and I now withdraw my comment that the Indiana bill is pretty close to the Federal one based on what I read. I'm not a lawyer but I found their arguments clear, cogent and convincing.

And with a bit more time, it's clear that the governor there and other republicans are being even more hypocritical and dishonest than I thought initially. They refuse to admit the reason they passed the bill. They clearly don't have the courage of their convictions.

It's worth noting that Utah, hardly a bastion of the far left, passed a similar law very quietly with no one disagreeing.

The picture that says 1000 words: