Tell the World

[CG Didymus]

Any point to why this is significant? I invite you to tell the world why it is.

The concern was about overly conservative and authoritarian leadership. Also, there might be a problem of under representation or no representation of a large number of countries on the UHJ. So, certain countries have a dominant and controlling voice. But maybe that's not a problem for Baha'is.

 

[CG Didymus]

It is now the world need it the most. Someone who can lead the way toward the light. Toward peace on earth.

But it will take time for all people to Unite and have faith.

In the U.S. we can't even get along with each other. Our political parties want to go in two different directions. Our religions? I don't think they have much power. And some of them I don't think want unity. They really believe they are right and everybody else wrong. I think what is holding us together is that it is easy to make money here and get the things we want. A house, a car, a TV, computer, an iPhone and internet service and what else in life is necessary?

With all the fires, tornadoes, hurricanes, and other problems, it won't take much to lose all of that. And religious people, including the Baha'is, keep warning us that the day is coming.

 

[Spirit of Light]

In the U.S. we can't even get along with each other. Our political parties want to go in two different directions. Our religions? I don't think they have much power. And some of them I don't think want unity. They really believe they are right and everybody else wrong. I think what is holding us together is that it is easy to make money here and get the things we want. A house, a car, a TV, computer, an iPhone and internet service and what else in life is necessary?

With all the fires, tornadoes, hurricanes, and other problems, it won't take much to lose all of that. And religious people, including the Baha'is, keep warning us that the day is coming.

People will unite, not nessesary through same religious fatith, but by accepting each other as fellow human beings. Politics is the opposite of religion, politics lead to evil.

So polirics and religious practice does not go hand in hand.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The concern was about overly conservative and authoritarian leadership. Also, there might be a problem of under representation or no representation of a large number of countries on the UHJ. So, certain countries have a dominant and controlling voice. But maybe that's not a problem for Baha'is.

It's not a problem as every nation in a represented.

There are no nominees in these secret ballot elections of the Universal House of Justice, which is elected every 5 years by the 9 members of each National Spiritual Assemblies, so all Nations are represented.

The National Spiritual Assembly members, also 9 members, were elected by representatives from all areas within those Nations at a yearly convention held for that purpose. Every adult over the age of 21 is eligible for election to the NSA and can vote.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

I found him... Sen McGlinn. Here's a link to his blog.

Now if I was in charge of keeping the Baha'i Faith intact, I'd be on the watch for anybody trying to change things and to cause some problems. But where would I draw the line before I've gone too far? I wouldn't want to not go far enough and let some "dissidents" get a hold on things. Better to nip anything that looks suspicious before it starts growing. Right? Or maybe I shouldn't be put in charge of such a thing? But who should? Conservative, authoritarian types? Progressive, liberal types?

Very well done! Yes, @Sen McGlinn.
Sen runs (or did run) his own blog or web-site devoted to Bahai. He knows so much about the history and writings, and he is so straight forward with his information. If folks like Sen were the Bahai guides for Country and World then this faith would advance hand-over-hand.

Whether he would want to take Bahai through any progression with (any) of humanity's forward motions is for him to tell us. But I get the impression that he was in some ways censored for his truth, maybe there are parts of Bahai history that the leaders didn't want the public to hear of or see?

You say that if you was the governor that you would be on watch for Bahais trying to change Bahai, but to progress towards less bigotry, towards this new age... could only be an advance, surely?

 

[Aupmanyav]

History shows they change billions of hearts and shape the direction of, and build Nations.

It was not the time for the world to embrace a message meant for the world.
Tell the world, this is the time.

History showws that those who believed in prophets/sons/messengers only brought cruelty and strife to the world.

How come? If the earlier messengers were not listened to, how would the latest uneducated 19th Century Iranian who claimed (and what you believe, even if you wrongly discount Mirza Ghulam Ahmad who claimed that he was the Mahdi) that he is a messenger from a God will be listened to? What additional evidence does your manifestation have to prove that he want chosen by a God other than his vision of the 'heavenly maiden'?
I have seen many a 'heavenly maidens' in many dreams in my younger days. Does that make me a messenger of a God?

 

[oldbadger]

History showws that those who believed in prophets/sons/messengers only brought cruelty and strife to the world.

I'll bet that the North American Indians now wish they'd never met with any Christians.

How come? If the earlier messengers were not listened to, how would the latest uneducated 19th Century Iranian who claimed (and what you believe, even if you wrongly discount Mirza Ghulam Ahmad who claimed that he was the Mahdi) that he is a messenger from a God will be listened to? What additional evidence does your manifestation have to prove that he want chosen by a God other than his vision of the 'heavenly maiden'?

Ah! Bahaullah was the son of a rich father of high status and considerable influence. His Dad saved him time and time again..... even when his friends were being dragged out to their executions. And he was writing to encourage the poor and unjustly treated Persian people to start over anew. He survived.

I have seen many a 'heavenly maidens' in many dreams in my younger days. Does that make me a messenger of a God?

You too?
I knew that we had some kind of connection there.

 

[CG Didymus]

It's not a problem as every nation in a represented.

There are no nominees in these secret ballot elections of the Universal House of Justice, which is elected every 5 years by the 9 members of each National Spiritual Assemblies, so all Nations are represented.

The National Spiritual Assembly members, also 9 members, were elected by representatives from all areas within those Nations at a yearly convention held for that purpose. Every adult over the age of 21 is eligible for election to the NSA and can vote.

Regards Tony

The thing I read said that most of the members are either Iranian or American Baha'is. With all NSA's voting that shouldn't be the case, should it? Plus, wouldn't a lot of diversity on it be better? Like at least one representative from each continent.

 

[CG Didymus]

You say that if you was the governor that you would be on watch for Bahais trying to change Bahai, but to progress towards less bigotry, towards this new age... could only be an advance, surely?

I didn't say I would make things advance. Since I'm in charge I'd want to make sure things were done how I thought was right. Then like most leaders these days, the rules wouldn't apply to me.

Actually, with the Baha'i ruling class, I think it is going to tend to be toward conservative, status-quo kind of people. Anyone shaking things up should be investigated, because they are gaining grass-roots kind of power and authority. Which could lead to them demanding change. And that wouldn't be good. And if allowed to get too big, those people following some charismatic leader might branch off and start their own version of the Baha'i Faith. Can't let that stuff happen. Must make sure the power and authority stays at the top.

 

[CG Didymus]

I have seen many a 'heavenly maidens' in many dreams in my younger days. Does that make me a messenger of a God?

Me too. And I'm still seeing them.

But along with Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, there is Meher Baba and Maitreya and even Joseph Smith has to be included because it was an angel that came to him. By their fruits you shall know them? I'm sure all of them have changed lots of people's lives for the better. But is their message true? Are there claims true? Does Baha'u'llah win out because he was made a prisoner and because he wrote a lot? I'm sure all of them have "fulfilled" the necessary prophecies. So, how do we determine which one is for real? I think we're going about it the right way. We are questioning and pointing out problem areas with the claims. Are the answers we are given satisfactory? Not necessarily. They usually lead to more questions. What else can we do? Just accept the claims without testing them?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

History showws that those who believed in prophets/sons/messengers only brought cruelty and strife to the world.

How come? If the earlier messengers were not listened to, how would the latest uneducated 19th Century Iranian who claimed (and what you believe, even if you wrongly discount Mirza Ghulam Ahmad who claimed that he was the Mahdi) that he is a messenger from a God will be listened to? What additional evidence does your manifestation have to prove that he want chosen by a God other than his vision of the 'heavenly maiden'?
I have seen many a 'heavenly maidens' in many dreams in my younger days. Does that make me a messenger of a God?

I see we need to look for the good and much good was and is still being done by people who practice a Faith.

Luckily we have been born at the beginning of the age of peace, we have the bounty to put down the foundations of a long lasting peace.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The thing I read said that most of the members are either Iranian or American Baha'is. With all NSA's voting that shouldn't be the case, should it? Plus, wouldn't a lot of diversity on it be better? Like at least one representative from each continent.

Best to read how it is done CG, the last 2018 election had 1500 ballots, with 1300 of those done in person.

Each person is to consider their choice using prayer and meditation, getting to know each other as much as possible.

"BAHA’I WORLD CENTRE — In a rarefied and spiritual atmosphere, representatives of more than 160 national Baha’i communities cast their ballots for the election of the Universal House of Justice earlier today.

“The attendance of delegates at the 12th International Baha’i Convention this year is unprecedented in number,” remarked Alison Milston, Counsellor Member of the International Teaching Centre, opening the proceedings. “It is a befitting symbol of how the Baha’i Faith has advanced in the two centuries since the appearance of Baha’u’llah.”

Following a selection of prayers, over 1,300 representatives from around the Baha’i world, one-by-one, filed across the stage at the Haifa International Convention Centre and placed their ballots reverently into a designated wooden box. Including absentee ballots, the total number of representatives participating in the election surpassed 1,500..."

Remainder of article Delegates cast ballots to elect Universal House of Justice | BWNS

So who is elected is up to each of the 1500+ individual voters who each put down their choice.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

It's not a problem as every nation in a represented.

There are no nominees in these secret ballot elections of the Universal House of Justice, which is elected every 5 years by the 9 members of each National Spiritual Assemblies, so all Nations are represented.

The National Spiritual Assembly members, also 9 members, were elected by representatives from all areas within those Nations at a yearly convention held for that purpose. Every adult over the age of 21 is eligible for election to the NSA and can vote.

Regards Tony

Sounds extremely random. No campaigning, so anybody might get a few votes. So, how many actual votes do the winners get? And even without campaigning, I'll bet most people vote for people they've heard of, well-known Baha'i teachers or speakers, or they vote for the incumbents. A person could, without formerly campaigning, make a name for himself by doing things that gets him noticed as an "outstanding" Baha'i.

When I was around Baha'is the same people were elected to the LSA for three years. Plus, the same lady was voted as a representative every year. I just did a search, and of course I found some ex-Baha'i articles...
Baha’i Electoral System In one article it said, “THE MEMBERSHIP OF THE BODY HAS ONLY SEEN CHANGE DUE TO DEATH OR RETIREMENT: NO MEMBER HAS EVER BEEN ELECTED OFF THE UHJ.” Here's what it said next...

1-The most important trend is that we have, since 2008, a membership drawn completely from the ITC – which itself is appointed by the Universal House of Justice. So in essence, there is a closed loop with the UHJ appointing its future candidates. This also shows that ITC acts as screening committee for future UHJ members.

2-By having UHJ members constantly elected from the ITC, it is almost a type of silent campaigning going on. These individuals are given a visible role in front of NSA’s whereas any normal Baha’i out there would never stand a chance to be known. This guarantees no fresh blood- new Baha’is who are outside of the loop of administration who could possibly bring in a different perspective. Hence you only get people who are inside the system who will perpetuate the same thought patterns. And you get these people because they are the only ones paraded in front of the NSA’s!​

Is this true, and if it is, do have any problem with it, or is it okay?

​

 

[Sheldon]

History shows they change billions of hearts and shape the direction of, and build Nations.

Religions have also destroyed nations, and stopped countless hearts forever. So that sweeping platitude is rather facile don't you think.

 

[CG Didymus]

Religions have also destroyed nations, and stopped countless hearts forever. So that sweeping platitude is rather facile don't you think.

Religions built nations? Oh yeah, duh. Look at America. People seeking religious freedom came to America and ended up building a great nation of loving people. All they had to do is get rid of the people that were in the way and find some cheap exploitable labor.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Is this true, and if it is, do have any problem with it, or is it okay?

It's a great system, it is evolving. We also have to learn how to use the system correctly.

The article is from a site that has an agenda CG.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Religions have also destroyed nations, and stopped countless hearts forever. So that sweeping platitude is rather facile don't you think.

No as that would be power hungry, predudiced, greedy men you are referring to. They tear religion down by making God's of their own desires.

All this has been foretold and that is why God sends Messengers, God gives us another chance to get it right.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Sounds extremely random. No campaigning, so anybody might get a few votes. So, how many actual votes do the winners get? And even without campaigning, I'll bet most people vote for people they've heard of, well-known Baha'i teachers or speakers, or they vote for the incumbents. A person could, without formerly campaigning, make a name for himself by doing things that gets him noticed as an "outstanding" Baha'i.

When I was around Baha'is the same people were elected to the LSA for three years. Plus, the same lady was voted as a representative every year. I just did a search, and of course I found some ex-Baha'i articles...
Baha’i Electoral System In one article it said, “THE MEMBERSHIP OF THE BODY HAS ONLY SEEN CHANGE DUE TO DEATH OR RETIREMENT: NO MEMBER HAS EVER BEEN ELECTED OFF THE UHJ.” Here's what it said next...

1-The most important trend is that we have, since 2008, a membership drawn completely from the ITC – which itself is appointed by the Universal House of Justice. So in essence, there is a closed loop with the UHJ appointing its future candidates. This also shows that ITC acts as screening committee for future UHJ members.

2-By having UHJ members constantly elected from the ITC, it is almost a type of silent campaigning going on. These individuals are given a visible role in front of NSA’s whereas any normal Baha’i out there would never stand a chance to be known. This guarantees no fresh blood- new Baha’is who are outside of the loop of administration who could possibly bring in a different perspective. Hence you only get people who are inside the system who will perpetuate the same thought patterns. And you get these people because they are the only ones paraded in front of the NSA’s!​

Is this true, and if it is, do have any problem with it, or is it okay?

​

This is all verifiable by Bahai resources themselves. It's called patronage, and it's a fact of life in today's world, not just in Bahai'. Many have predicted who the next UHJ member will be. Whomever has a 'clean' record, and has served loyally in the ITC gets the next position.

Here in Canada, patronage in the government is rampant. All of our senate members, many judges, most of the non-elected government department heads, etc. are there from patronage. Definitely a system of who you know, not what you know.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This is all verifiable by Bahai resources themselves. It's called patronage, and it's a fact of life in today's world, not just in Bahai'. Many have predicted who the next UHJ member will be. Whomever has a 'clean' record, and has served loyally in the ITC gets the next position

That is not the system.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

That is not the system.

Regards Tony

Please point to which MAN did not serve on the ITC.

Universal House of Justice - Wikipedia