Let's see if we can define 'Islamophobia'.

[England my lionheart]

Excellent. Thats a decent start. Be sure to get a random sample of a valid number for statistical validation. Good beginning.

Thank for the advice.

 

[firedragon]

Thank for the advice.

Honored.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The “modern world” is without clumsy baggage.

You must be joking!
We have known for decades that climate-change is a serious issue, but apart from
being forced to slow down during covid, global emissions continue to rise.

Arrogance is often our downfall, thinking that we know better than our ancestors.

 

[stevecanuck]

I agree but because the Quran isn’t in chronological order it doesn’t get noticed.

I'm pretty sure the compilers realized that nobody would read the Qur'an if they had to slog through the first 86 surahs of boring repetition. Also, they were probably anxious to get to the 'good stuff' in surah 2.

 

[BrightShadow]

What’s the term for when you feel deep sympathy for a group of people, not fearful of them, but pity their circumstances? I feel sorry for women who must wear restrictive black robes, I feel sadness for those who are uneducated and born into countries with limited resources, I feel sorrow towards any oppressive religious beliefs that hinder growth and learning opportunities. I feel a profound sense of compassion and sorrow for all who live oppressed by religious dogmas and confines.

And in Mr. T's language - "I pity the fools" who choose to remain ignorant about the powerful message this religion provides that can help attain a structured life filled with dignity and morality!
I pity the fools who would rather believe all the concocted lies that is floating around about the religion - than take some time seeking out the truth for themselves.
Even ChatGPT knows better as demonstrated in my post # 210 & 220 on page11

 

[RestlessSoul]

A jug of wine, a loaf of bread, and thou,
Beside me singing in the wilderness—
Oh, wilderness were paradise enow!

simple pleasures - but the best quatrain to me, where he stands against Muslim beliefs:

32: "The Revelations of the Light are in my Soul,
And I find that the Light is my sole Goal.
So why should I care what the Prophet says?
His Prophecies are not for me, they are foul."


64: "And that inverted Bowl we call The Sky,
Whereunder crawling coop’d we live and die,
Lift not thy hands to It for help—for It
Rolls impotently on as Thou or I."


... Do not call to Allah, do not call to God.
Just the laws of nature rolling by, it's a better mindset when one realizes, it is all the laws of nature.

Good poetry.

Good poetry, but I think you’ve misread it if you think it’s a polemic against God and religion. One should be careful when cherry picking verses from literature (or scripture) to support one’s own prejudices.

 

[paarsurrey]

I agree but because the Quran isn’t in chronological order it doesn’t get noticed.

What is a chronological order, please?
Is the nature in a chronological order, please, right

Regards
____________________

"chronology (n.)​

1590s, "the science of time," from French chronologie or directly from Modern Latin chronologia; see chrono- + -logy. Related: Chronologer (1570s). Meaning "particular statement of the supposed order of certain past events" is from 1610s.
also from 1590s
chronological (adj.)
"arranged in order by time," 1610s, from chronology + -ical. Chronological order is attested by 1754. Related: Chronologic (1610s); chronologically. chronology | Etymology of chronology by etymonline

 

[England my lionheart]

What is a chronological order, please?
Is the nature in a chronological order, please, right

Regards
____________________

"chronology (n.)​

1590s, "the science of time," from French chronologie or directly from Modern Latin chronologia; see chrono- + -logy. Related: Chronologer (1570s). Meaning "particular statement of the supposed order of certain past events" is from 1610s.
also from 1590s
chronological (adj.)
"arranged in order by time," 1610s, from chronology + -ical. Chronological order is attested by 1754. Related: Chronologic (1610s); chronologically. chronology | Etymology of chronology by etymonline

The answer you already know.

 

[England my lionheart]

And in Mr. T's language - "I pity the fools" who choose to remain ignorant about the powerful message this religion provides that can help attain a structured life filled with dignity and morality!
I pity the fools who would rather believe all the concocted lies that is floating around about the religion - than take some time seeking out the truth for themselves.
Even ChatGPT knows better as demonstrated in my post # 210 & 220 on page11

What happened to Islam then,where is this example of Islamic utopia then?.

 

[England my lionheart]

You must be joking!
We have known for decades that climate-change is a serious issue, but apart from
being forced to slow down during covid, global emissions continue to rise.

Arrogance is often our downfall, thinking that we know better than our ancestors.

What has this to do with Islamophobia?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Well, you seem to think it has:-

"I used to enjoy the hadiths which were like very old stories but the have no place in the modern world."
"The “modern world” is without clumsy baggage."

You imply that people in the modern world (currently) are somehow superior, due to the increase
in technological progress, presumably.

 

[England my lionheart]

Well, you seem to think it has:-

"I used to enjoy the hadiths which were like very old stories but the have no place in the modern world."
"The “modern world” is without clumsy baggage."

You imply that people in the modern world (currently) are somehow superior, due to the increase
in technological progress, presumably.

Not just technology but in knowledge,makes sense really.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Not just technology but in knowledge,makes sense really.

Makes sense to you .. but knowledge comes in many forms .. not just in
academic, career-style knowledge.

I would hope that an old man would be wiser than a young man..
..but this is not always the case .. it depends on many things.

 

[idea]

Oh, that is decidedly un-Islamic.

Those revered are often those who reject religious dogma.

 

[Augustus]

All Islamist attacks in the US (or anywhere for that matter) are perpetrated for and about Islam. That's my point.

Obviously all religiously/ideologically motivated violence has something to do with the religion/ideology driving it, although it generally has a wide range of causes. We shouldn't ignore the ideology or the broader social forces.

The social conditions in 1930s Germany led to popular support for both Nazism and Communism. They drew their supporters from the same communities, and people would often switch sides. Conditions drove extremism, but the form of extremism people adopted was far more fluid.

History is full of examples of extreme ideologies rising and falling in response to social and economic forces.

In the 60s and 70s there were numerous left-wing terror organisations in Europe. In the Middle East at this time, Palestinian militant groups were largely secular, left wing nationalist groups too. The Islamisation of the conflict is a much more recent phenomenon, significantly driven by the failure of earlier movements and reforms, along with a shift in funding from the Soviet Bloc to the Wahabbis.

It's people from the same communities though with mostly the same complaints they always had.

Whataboutism is simply not a defense of bad behavior. Each case should be looked at independently.

You seem unable to understand the difference between whataboutism and comparison/contextualisation.

You claimed Islam makes people more violent than they would otherwise be on average. This requires comparing different groups to see if your claim is supported by the evidence. You cannot make such a claim while looking at each independently as the claim itself is a comparison.

We know that any large group of humans will contain perpetrators of violence,

You refuse to provide any evidence in support of your claim and just mindlessly cry "whataboutism!" any time people try do this for you.

Your logic: "Immigrants are more likely to commit murder than those born in the country, I know this because I remember news reports of 3 murders committed by immigrants in the past few years." Claiming immigrants commit murder does not make the case that they do this at a higher rate than other groups though.

On RF, the people who most commonly cry "fallacy" generally misunderstand what the fallacy is, and use it a tool to prevent cognitive dissonance or avoid thinking critically.

I'm pretty sure the compilers realized that nobody would read the Qur'an if they had to slog through the first 86 surahs of boring repetition. Also, they were probably anxious to get to the 'good stuff' in surah 2.

"Siri, give me an example of something that definitely didn't happen as it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever"

 

[BrightShadow]

What happened to Islam then,where is this example of Islamic utopia then?.

That is a loaded question! You are assuming "Utopia" (a fictional place) actually exists or suppose to exist somewhere!
Let me ask you -where is the example of Sahara desert in London?

If you meant to say - Utopia = Heaven - then my suggestion is - believe in ONE God ideology and follow the structured life laid out for you and the path will lead you there and you may enter only with the mercy of the God!

If you meant to say - Utopia = a peaceful Islamic state - then you misunderstood my post because I wasn't talking about a "place"!

In either case - you are mistaken to compare religion to a place!
Yes! I was talking about the religion! The guideline to life on earth!

If you buy any complex tool - it will come with an instructional guide book; for best results - you are required to read it carefully and follow it. God provided us with the manual - follow it! You may not understand why certain lifestyle or certain things are bad for the tool (independently or collectively) but the one who made you - knows better! For example (assuming you are a Christian) you may find nothing wrong with eating Pork because Paul (improperly) told you that all dietary restrictions were lifted through Jesus' crucifixion but the one who made you told you in the Old Testament as well as in the Final testament otherwise! So pay heed to your instructional manual! It is for your own benefit!
If and when you do - it may lead you to - what you call an "Utopia"!

By the way, nothing is wrong with "Islam"! It has been falsely blamed by people like the OP because they are trying to divert the attention away from the real reason some self-proclaimed Muslims are creating a bad name for themselves. The real reason is - the conflict of the Middle East and it has nothing to do with the religion and everything to do with occupied land and oppression! If the Middle East's land dispute is ever resolved - then people like the OP will run out of material to distract the world that Islam is at fault!

Islam is not to be blamed! Even ChatGPT knows better as demonstrated in my post # 210 & 220 on page11
Did you play the video? Mind blowing! Isn't it

 

[England my lionheart]

That is a loaded question! You are assuming "Utopia" (a fictional place) actually exists or suppose to exist somewhere!
Let me ask you -where is the example of Sahara desert in London?

The UK is mostly green which is preferable to desert.

If you meant to say - Utopia = Heaven - then my suggestion is - believe in ONE God ideology and follow the structured life laid out for you and the path will lead you there and you may enter only with the mercy of the God!

Would you consider Saudi Arabia such a place.

If you meant to say - Utopia = a peaceful Islamic state - then you misunderstood my post because I wasn't talking about a "place"!

Ah ok,so there isn’t one,that’s what I thought.

In either case - you are mistaken to compare religion to a place!
Yes! I was talking about the religion! The guideline to life on earth!

A medaeval one,things have changed.

If you buy any complex tool - it will come with an instructional guide book; for best results - you are required to read it carefully and follow it. God provided us with the manual - follow it! You may not understand why certain lifestyle or certain things are bad for the tool (independently or collectively) but the one who made you - knows better! For example (assuming you are a Christian) you may find nothing wrong with eating Pork because Paul (improperly) told you that all dietary restrictions were lifted through Jesus' crucifixion but the one who made you told you in the Old Testament as well as in the Final testament otherwise! So pay heed to your instructional manual! It is for your own benefit!
If and when you do - it may lead you to - what you call an "Utopia"!

Maybe your instruction manual is way out of date,maybe all ancient scriptures are way out of date and do we really need a book to live a good life?.

By the way, nothing is wrong with "Islam"! It has been falsely blamed by people like the OP because they are trying to divert the attention away from the real reason some self-proclaimed Muslims are creating a bad name for themselves. The real reason is - the conflict of the Middle East and it has nothing to do with the religion and everything to do with occupied land and oppression! If the Middle East's land dispute is ever resolved - then people like the OP will run out of material to distract the world that Islam is at fault!

Religion is a perfect conduit for all sorts of wrongs,”occupied land”,if you’re referring to Israel you are under the delusion that it’s an Islamic waqf and can never be given up.

The Middle East has been in turmoil for many years,the decline of the Ottoman Islamic empire and defeat in WW1,the British and French mandates (which were poor choices imo) and the end of any solidarity.

The “occupied lands” as you put it has everything to do with religion,its because of religion imo,Islam had its day arguably in the late Middle Ages and was already in decline.

Islam is not to be blamed! Even ChatGPT knows better as demonstrated in my post # 210 & 220 on page11
Did you play the video? Mind blowing! Isn't it

Isn’t tech wonderful but it doesn’t have human savvy ;-)

 

[paarsurrey]

Let's see if we can define 'Islamophobia'.

paarsurrey said:
What is a chronological order, please?
Is the nature in a chronological order, please, right

Regards
____________________

"chronology (n.)​

1590s, "the science of time," from French chronologie or directly from Modern Latin chronologia; see chrono- + -logy. Related: Chronologer (1570s). Meaning "particular statement of the supposed order of certain past events" is from 1610s.
also from 1590s
chronological (adj.)
"arranged in order by time," 1610s, from chronology + -ical. Chronological order is attested by 1754. Related: Chronologic (1610s); chronologically. chronology | Etymology of chronology by etymonline

The answer you already know.

Nature is Work of One G-d, and Quran is the Word of One G-d, both therefore bear the stamp of G-d, being from the same source, right, please?:

• Nature (or science) is work of G-d and Word-Revealed/Quran or Recitation is the Word of G-d:

“In short, unless God Almighty affirms His existence through His Word, as He has manifested it through His work, the observation of the work alone does not afford complete satisfaction.
For instance, if we are confronted by a room the door of which is bolted from inside, our immediate reaction would be that there is someone inside the room who has bolted the door from inside, inasmuch as it is apparently impossible to bolt a door from inside by some device employed for the purpose from the outside.
But if, despite persistent calls from the outside over a period of years, no response becomes audible from inside, our supposition that there must be someone inside would have to be abandoned and we would be compelled to conclude that the door has been bolted from inside through some clever device.
This is the situation in which those philosophers have placed themselves whose understanding is limited solely to the observation of the work of God. It is a great mistake to imagine that God is like a corpse interred in the earth whose recovery is the business of man.
If God has only been discovered through human effort, it is vain to expect anything from Him. Indeed, God has, through eternity, called mankind to Himself by affirming:
I am present. It would be a great impertinence to imagine that man has laid God under an obligation by discovering Him through his own effort, and that if there had been no philosophers He would have continued unknown.”

Philosophy of Teachings of Islam by Mirza Ghualm Ahmad : Page-86

Click to access Philosophy-of-Teachings-of-Islam.pdf
Right?

Regards

 

[England my lionheart]

Let's see if we can define 'Islamophobia'.

paarsurrey said:
What is a chronological order, please?
Is the nature in a chronological order, please, right

Regards
____________________

"chronology (n.)​

1590s, "the science of time," from French chronologie or directly from Modern Latin chronologia; see chrono- + -logy. Related: Chronologer (1570s). Meaning "particular statement of the supposed order of certain past events" is from 1610s.
also from 1590s
chronological (adj.)
"arranged in order by time," 1610s, from chronology + -ical. Chronological order is attested by 1754. Related: Chronologic (1610s); chronologically. chronology | Etymology of chronology by etymonline


Nature is Work of One G-d, and Quran is the Word of One G-d, both therefore bear the stamp of G-d, being from the same source, right, please?:

• Nature (or science) is work of G-d and Word-Revealed/Quran or Recitation is the Word of G-d:

“In short, unless God Almighty affirms His existence through His Word, as He has manifested it through His work, the observation of the work alone does not afford complete satisfaction.
For instance, if we are confronted by a room the door of which is bolted from inside, our immediate reaction would be that there is someone inside the room who has bolted the door from inside, inasmuch as it is apparently impossible to bolt a door from inside by some device employed for the purpose from the outside.
But if, despite persistent calls from the outside over a period of years, no response becomes audible from inside, our supposition that there must be someone inside would have to be abandoned and we would be compelled to conclude that the door has been bolted from inside through some clever device.
This is the situation in which those philosophers have placed themselves whose understanding is limited solely to the observation of the work of God. It is a great mistake to imagine that God is like a corpse interred in the earth whose recovery is the business of man.
If God has only been discovered through human effort, it is vain to expect anything from Him. Indeed, God has, through eternity, called mankind to Himself by affirming:
I am present. It would be a great impertinence to imagine that man has laid God under an obligation by discovering Him through his own effort, and that if there had been no philosophers He would have continued unknown.”

Philosophy of Teachings of Islam by Mirza Ghualm Ahmad : Page-86

Click to access Philosophy-of-Teachings-of-Islam.pdf
Right?

Regards

Wow that was wordy,is Mirza Ghulam even accepted in Islam as the Mahdi,I would venture that’s a no and I’m sorry,I don’t bow to threats of being abandoned,right?.

 

[BrightShadow]

The UK is mostly green which is preferable to desert.

Come again?
I thought you will point out all the deserted and abandoned churches in UK!
Btw, many old ones are bought over and now are becoming mosques!
Go figure!

Would you consider Saudi Arabia such a place.

Saudi?
Far from it! Not even close!
I already told you - whatever you mean by that word "Utopia"- it doesn't exist on earth!

Ah ok,so there isn’t one,that’s what I thought.

You can strive (try) but it is difficult to thrive (achieve it) due to arrogance and faulty nature of the humans!
Path is laid out - does not mean path is collectively taken!

A medaeval one,things have changed.

Obviously things have changed!
But changed in the right direction or wrong?
You prefer empty churches while men are changing and marrying men, men wanting to become women and men playing, competing and fighting against women in women's sports?
Your tone sounds like you are happy at your so-called "change"!

Maybe your instruction manual is way out of date,maybe all ancient scriptures are way out of date and do we really need a book to live a good life?.

No, it is not. The core teaching of Quran is timeless but you can only get to the core when you are not deflected off the surface due to your own impurities of your mind! Impurities such as your arrogance (thinking you know better), your pride that stops you from looking into a new path, your delusions (thinking you are already on the right track), your greed, lust, unwillingness to sacrifice anything even for your own salvation, lack of devotion, lack of trust in the words, etc.
What is the purpose of life? Watch this convert - he used to be an Atheist - it is an old video- he tried hard to explain - his explanation is not perfect but he was on the right track!
here is the link...

Religion is a perfect conduit for all sorts of wrongs,

What sorts of wrongs? As I said earlier - humans fight for many reasons including but not limited to - love, family, power, freedom, self preservations, sacrifice, pride, racial differences, cultural differences & against oppressions. The biggest reason many wars are fought is "land"!
While it may look like "religion" is to be blamed - in reality it is simply the "differences" that lead humans to wars!

”occupied land”,if you’re referring to Israel you are under the delusion that it’s an Islamic waqf and can never be given up.

Why one track mind? Why the word "Islamic" pops up when talking about these folks? It is just a group of people who happened to be Muslims who were evicted! The only way you will understand what it means if you are ever evicted from your own home!

The Middle East has been in turmoil for many years,the decline of the Ottoman Islamic empire and defeat in WW1,the British and French mandates (which were poor choices imo) and the end of any solidarity.

Occupying foreign lands for your own benefit, manipulation of the locals, trickeries and then betrayal - (assuming from you name) must be a proud thing to be a descendant out of such a noble land! Buzzer! Wrong!

The “occupied lands” as you put it has everything to do with religion,its because of religion imo,Islam had its day arguably in the late Middle Ages and was already in decline.

"Occupied land" has everything to do with religion? You have it backwards! Separated due to religious affiliations does not automatically puts the blame on the religions!
Occupied land & "fault of religion" - are two separate things! You get that right?
Fighting because of skin color does not imply skin color at fault! Blame the racist! Put the blame where it belongs!
Stop blaming religions!

Isn’t tech wonderful but it doesn’t have human savvy ;-)

Occam's razor!
Simplest explanation is usually the right explanation!
2+2=4 regardless of "humans" trying to make it 0, 3 or 5.
If you want impartial opinion based on science, context & reason - you have something now to ask questions to!
Celebrate it! It is a significant milestone!