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Let's see if we can define 'Islamophobia'.

Pawpatrol

Active Member
, I strongly suspect that a lot of these “prophets” including Mo and Jesus, had narcissistic personality disorder which explains their conceited belief that they were somehow “chosen” “special” “uniquely important” in some way
People with narcissist personality disorder are usually not particularly skilled in any area because of their lack of commitment, nor are they known for making sacrifices. There's a lot more to it than just thinking too much of oneself.

Muhammad (saws), for example, lived through most of his prophethood in extreme poverty out of his own choice, and of Jesus the christians (falsely) believe he sacrificed himself.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
I don’t know that much about Islam however, I would not say it’s Islamophobic to criticise verses in Islamic scripture regardless of how they are applied or interpreted by any Islamic sect. This applies to all scriptures & “prophets” across religions.
No, it isn't. It is not "Islamophobic" to criticize verses in the Qur'an.
It is not anti-Semitic to criticize verses in the Torah.

..but encouraging hate of Jews or Muslims, is.
 

Wherenextcolumbus

Well-Known Member
People with narcissist personality disorder are usually not particularly skilled in any area because of their lack of commitment, nor are they known for making sacrifices. There's a lot more to it than just thinking too much of oneself.

Muhammad (saws), for example, lived through most of his prophethood in extreme poverty out of his own choice, and of Jesus the christians (falsely) believe he sacrificed himself.
Hi Pawpatrol

I disagree. There are a lot of different types of narcissists - it can present in different ways.
Some people with NPD can be intelligent, charming, appear to have a moral compass and appear to “make sacrifices” if it furthers their goals e.g if it gains them admiration/attention, or financial benefits/resources, or greater access to romantic partners/sex or greater control over others etc
 
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stvdv

Veteran Member
Exodus 22:20 "“Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed."
Quite a verse, and it seems to call out to destroy. I am not surprised that so many Christians with such Bible versus went out to kill, all in name of "The Lord"

Makes me wonder, would God, described to be full of merci, forgiving, compassionate, empathetic and non judgmental, also described as the Creator of all, give us such a verse?

Or could it be that such a verse comes out of he imagination of the worldly writer of that part of the Bible? That makes more sense to me.
This refers to Israelites. It is not a command to go out into the world killing everyone who is not a monotheist.

You continue to make the same error several more times.
IF God has at least as much empathy as I have, He would have known that millions of His believers would take such a verse literal and just start killing, as history has given us ample proof of (even recent history)

So, I don't believe such a God gave this verse. It seems to me more the verse of a wharped mind, devoid of empathy and compassion, with lots of anger in them
 

BrightShadow

Active Member
What if they do not regard it as a sin but you do.

What is a sin:question: Not regarding it a crime! Is that a defense in the criminal justice system? Can you defend yourself by stating you don't regard it a crime of what you are accused of?

Everyone is born with an inborn inclination towards believing in a one God ideology and we have an internal moral compass to figure out what is right and what is wrong - what is allowed and what is not - what is selfless and what is selfish.
As we grow old - our surroundings and people in our life (and of course the bad old devil) - influence us and successfully sidetrack us from our intended faithful path. Even though this deviation takes place because of the outside influence - it takes a shape which is sometimes well established and at other times superficial. When they come to hear the truth (the correct explanations) - some quickly realize it and they adjust themselves and revert. While some others NEVER revert! The curtain in front of their eyes prevents them from seeing the truth and their stance remains firm, unmovable and unchangeable.

Despite of those two kinds of people in the world - ask any prostitute if she knows what she is doing is wrong and she will acknowledge it as wrong and try to justify it with conditions of her life and her needs etc. That shows - she knows! Ask a thief and he will admit as well.

On an occasion a group of people don't realize a sin - it would be when the society totally does a good number on them by normalizing something wrong as an acceptable collective practice (on their land) - an example of that would be your example of "walking nude on the beach".
To understand - whether or not - "walking nude on the beach" is a sin - you first have to understand what a sin is!

Sins are very tricky. Some sins are easily distinguishable but some sins are not easily identifiable.

A sin manifests every time you cause a damage (knowingly or unknowingly)! The sins you do unknowingly are the tricky ones. When a girl walks naked - unknowingly she could start a chain reaction of bad circumstances. She could trigger something in a child and the child could grow wasting countless hours watching porn or doing something worse. He could become an addict and waste his life as a result. Other wrong decisions could contribute to his ruined life but the initial obsession that triggered the downfall cannot be ignored! While the girl may not readily realize the chain reaction she caused - yet a damage incurred and by the law of check and balance - some portion of the blame - will go to her whether she likes it or not. That is the price of fairness because God has told us what is allowed and what is not and creator knows the best!

The sin will be measured in direct proportion to the damage it inflicts on a person or society as a whole!
If the damage is not there then there may not be any sin. For example - if she is on a deserted island and the only one walking around naked on the beach - then she may not initiate any damage anywhere, However since we do not know enough about some other factors (i.e. Jinns and angels) - the damage is still unknown. Hence I would say - be moderately dressed wherever you are except when you are under your own roof (secured in your own controlled personal space).

I know what I wrote may sound ridiculous because some may say- how is the girl responsible? But I firmly believe in the correlation between damage and sins! You have the prerogative to believe what you want. We will find out who is right and who is wrong on the judgment day.;)

Long time ago when the information did not reach someone in some distant corner of the world - that individual could be forgiven by God for unknowingly performing some sin. But someone from our time may not be that lucky because information has reached everywhere, You could access a Quran easily these days. It is at the fingertip of almost everyone on earth! So, everyone is warned!

So just like when a cop pulls you over for going through a red traffic light - not knowing the law is not a defense - similarly not knowing the laws laid out in the Quran regarding "sins" - won't be a defense either(IMO).


Prophets,there have been many are human beings who’s claims cannot be substantiated.

Use your unbiased logical deductions and figure out who is real or who is not. It is not hard to figure out when you stop watching some fake believers activities and start looking into the actual Quran with an open mind. People may not represent their religion properly; Quran does!

Islam is a structured and disciplined way of life. It may not resonate well with some arrogant, selfish folks and folks who are lacking in ability to lead a disciplined life.


It’s an uncomfortable truth that stoning still occurs,the sharia huhud punishment is no longer carried out in Saudi though.
Where the stoning is occurring and what is huhud punishment?

Sometimes people are trapped in an unhappy or loveless marriage,maybe an arranged marriage and seek for what they don’t get from their marriage.

Divorce is allowed - seek new relationship after divorce from an unhappy one!
Maybe fishing on a boat will make you happy - doesn't mean when your financial situation doesn't allow you - you should go out and steal a boat to make you happy.
Work on your old situation first - get out of it with a divorce and then seek your new relationship.

Can you really punish love like that,very cruel and barbaric.

Is it not disrespectful and cruel for the one you cheat on?


But surely love is not a crime.

Tainted love!
How did the love initiate and progress in the first place? There lies the crime!
Was it love at first sight? There is no such thing! It is love at first lust really!
So, to initiate an affair would be improper if you are already married. It is unjust for the other spouse and disrespectful. So, it is a crime!


It’s not necessary to follow a religion to do good deeds.
Good deeds are good. You may be able to afford the ticket but without a bona fide religion - you still MAY NOT make the flight because you won't have a passport (religion). Remember believing in one God ideology is paramount! If you believe in one God then the rest is possible!



The afterlife that nobody can prove exists.
People with NDE or out of body experiences would speak differently. The need for evidence and the category of evidence needed - varies from person to person!

ChatGPT's response on this issue was perfect.
ChatGPT suggested - the given the complexity and order of the universe - it is obvious that there is a creator and one life followed by resurrection for the purpose of judgement - aligns with "cause and effect"! It is the most logical explanation!
You could deny yourself believing in afterlife - but is that logical? "Consciousness" did not create by itself and out of nothing! Right?

Anyhow - our conversation is probably fruitless!

[Quran 109:6] "You have your way, and I have my Way.”
 
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stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
People with narcissist personality disorder are usually not particularly skilled in any area because of their lack of commitment, nor are they known for making sacrifices. There's a lot more to it than just thinking too much of oneself.

Muhammad (saws), for example, lived through most of his prophethood in extreme poverty out of his own choice, and of Jesus the christians (falsely) believe he sacrificed himself.

Can you please tell us why you believe the highlighted phrase?
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Let's see if we can define 'Islamophobia'.
Reference poster #276
Is the nature in a chronological order, please, right
If nature and or universe is not in the chronological order, why should "Word of G-d" Quran be in chronological order, please, right?

Regard
__________________

"chronology (n.)

1590s, "the science of time," from French chronologie or directly from Modern Latin chronologia; see chrono- + -logy. Related: Chronologer (1570s). Meaning "particular statement of the supposed order of certain past events" is from 1610s.
also from 1590s
chronological (adj.)
"arranged in order by time," 1610s, from chronology + -ical. Chronological order is attested by 1754. Related: Chronologic (1610s); chronologically. chronology | Etymology of chronology by etymonline
 
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England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
What is a sin:question: Not regarding it a crime! Is that a defense in the criminal justice system? Can you defend yourself by stating you don't regard it a crime of what you are accused of?
What was viewed as a sin in medaeval times and punished as a crime are no longer relevant.
Everyone is born with an inborn inclination towards believing in a one God ideology and we have an internal moral compass to figure out what is right and what is wrong - what is allowed and what is not - what is selfless and what is selfish.
As we grow old - our surroundings and people in our life (and of course the bad old devil) - influence us and successfully sidetrack us from our intended faithful path. Even though this deviation takes place because of the outside influence - it takes a shape which is sometimes well established and at other times superficial. When they come to hear the truth (the correct explanations) - some quickly realize it and they adjust themselves and revert. While some others NEVER revert! The curtain in front of their eyes prevents them from seeing the truth and their stance remains firm, unmovable and unchangeable.

I’m sorry this is nonsense,babies are born with a blank hardrive,monkey see monkey do,the data download comes from parents and education,there’s no mystery to it.
Despite of those two kinds of people in the world - ask any prostitute if she knows what she is doing is wrong and she will acknowledge it as wrong and try to justify it with conditions of her life and her needs etc. That shows - she knows! Ask a thief and he will admit as well.

I have never met a prostitute but I think it’s possibly the worlds oldest trade,I can see how circumstances would play a part for how they became on,during your prophets time women were taken as warbooty,unlike prostitutes they didn’t get paid.

Thieves,another one for circumstances to be considered,desperation from poverty but also career criminals,the later would never admit that.
On an occasion a group of people don't realize a sin - it would be when the society totally does a good number on them by normalizing something wrong as an acceptable collective practice (on their land) - an example of that would be your example of "walking nude on the beach".
To understand - whether or not - "walking nude on the beach" is a sin - you first have to understand what a sin is!

If it’s not hurting anyone how can it be a sun?.
Sins are very tricky. Some sins are easily distinguishable but some sins are not easily identifiable.

A sin manifests every time you cause a damage (knowingly or unknowingly)! The sins you do unknowingly are the tricky ones. When a girl walks naked - unknowingly she could start a chain reaction of bad circumstances. She could trigger something in a child and the child could grow wasting countless hours watching porn or doing something worse. He could become an addict and waste his life as a result. Other wrong decisions could contribute to his ruined life but the initial obsession that triggered the downfall cannot be ignored! While the girl may not readily realize the chain reaction she caused - yet a damage incurred and by the law of check and balance - some portion of the blame - will go to her whether she likes it or not. That is the price of fairness because God has told us what is allowed and what is not and creator knows the best!

The thing to note here is that in the case of the south of France nobody even notices that she’s almost naked.
The sin will be measured in direct proportion to the damage it inflicts on a person or society as a whole! If the damage is not there then there may not be any sin. For example - if she is on a deserted island and the only one walking around naked on the beach - then she may not initiate any damage anywhere, However since we do not know enough about some other factors (i.e. Jinns and angels) - the damage is still unknown. Hence I would say - be moderately dressed wherever you are except when you are under your own roof (secured in your own controlled personal space).

The victorians were a bit like that,not an ankle in sight but lots of kinky sex underneath.
I know what I wrote may sound ridiculous because some may say- how is the girl responsible? But I firmly believe in the correlation between damage and sins! You have the prerogative to believe what you want. We will find out who is right and who is wrong on the judgment day.;)
Can’t wait.
Long time ago when the information did not reach someone in some distant corner of the world - that individual could be forgiven by God for unknowingly performing some sin. But someone from our time may not be that lucky because information has reached everywhere, You could access a Quran easily these days. It is at the fingertip of almost everyone on earth! So, everyone is warned!

Except it’s in Arabic,if you cannot read Arabic you cannot see it’s beauty apparently,it’s not a global language,however English is.
So just like when a cop pulls you over for going through a red traffic light - not knowing the law is not a defense - similarly not knowing the laws laid out in the Quran regarding "sins" - won't be a defense either(IMO).

This is why secularism is the way forward,no threats.
Use your unbiased logical deductions and figure out who is real or who is not. It is not hard to figure out when you stop watching some fake believers activities and start looking into the actual Quran with an open mind. People may not represent their religion properly; Quran does!

I see a good conduit for oppression imo.
Islam is a structured and disciplined way of life. It may not resonate well with some arrogant, selfish folks and folks who are lacking in ability to lead a disciplined life.

Or think it’s not a natural way of life,we all know the history of the Catholic Church for example,the priests who were sex offenders ,the inquisition,the religious persecution between catholics and Protestants and the persecution by some sects of Islam on other sects because they reject your style of “a disciplined life”.
Where the stoning is occurring and what is huhud punishment?

There are still countries who carry out this punishment United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen, northern Nigeria, Afghanistan, Brunei, and tribal parts of Pakistan, including northwest Kurram Valley and the northwest Khwezai-Baezai region.

Hudud means Under Islamic law, Hudud crimes (apostasy, revolt against the ruler, theft, highway robbery, adultery, slander, and drinking alcohol) carry penalties that include the amputation of hands and feet, flogging, and death.


Divorce is allowed - seek new relationship after divorce from an unhappy one!
Maybe fishing on a boat will make you happy - doesn't mean when your financial situation doesn't allow you - you should go out and steal a boat to make you happy.
Work on your old situation first - get out of it with a divorce and then seek your new relationship.

Some places and religions don’t make divorce easy for a woman.
Is it not disrespectful and cruel for the one you cheat on?

I agree that it’s a kind of betrayal but depends on the circumstances.
Tainted love!
How did the love initiate and progress in the first place? There lies the crime!
Was it love at first sight? There is no such thing! It is love at first lust really!
So, to initiate an affair would be improper if you are already married. It is unjust for the other spouse and disrespectful. So, it is a crime!

So your answer would be to bury them up to their waist and throw stones at them?,would that actually help?,this is a medaeval worldview.
Good deeds are good. You may be able to afford the ticket but without a bona fide religion - you still MAY NOT make the flight because you won't have a passport (religion). Remember believing in one God ideology is paramount! If you believe in one God then the rest is possible!

The good old stick and carrot,worked so well for a few thousand years but now ?
People with NDE or out of body experiences would speak differently. The need for evidence and the category of evidence needed - varies from person to person!

It does,however it’s still unsubstantiated.
ChatGPT's response on this issue was perfect.
ChatGPT suggested - the given the complexity and order of the universe - it is obvious that there is a creator and one life followed by resurrection for the purpose of judgement - aligns with "cause and effect"! It is the most logical explanation!
You could deny yourself believing in afterlife - but is that logical? "Consciousness" did not create by itself and out of nothing! Right?

Consciousness isn’t unique to humans.
Anyhow - our conversation is probably fruitless!

[Quran 109:6] "You have your way, and I have my Way.”

You belong to a proselytising religion the onus is on you,I’m a human so are you,I have no need for proselytising.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
What is a chronological order, please?
Is the nature in a chronological order, please, right

Regards

It’s like Shakespeare,he wrote his plays in a timeline,of course you know that the surahs were too,some in Mecca and some in Yathrib/medina,it’s not difficult,the Quran isn’t in chronological order,true,right?.

____________________

"chronology (n.)

1590s, "the science of time," from French chronologie or directly from Modern Latin chronologia; see chrono- + -logy. Related: Chronologer (1570s). Meaning "particular statement of the supposed order of certain past events" is from 1610s.
also from 1590s
chronological (adj.)
"arranged in order by time," 1610s, from chronology + -ical. Chronological order is attested by 1754. Related: Chronologic (1610s); chronologically. chronology | Etymology of chronology by etymonline

It’s certainly in the past.
 
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