So if one has a choice between a lie that will kill her and the truth that will save her life, and she has pleasant feelings about the lie that will make her die but unpleasant feelings about the truth that will keep her alive, which is more valuable--the deadly lie or the lifesaving truth?
An...
I hear what you are saying, and I wonder if value and worth are always determined by emotional feelings, or sometimes determined by something else. I mean, consider yourself. You yourself said you feel no emotions. Yet you participate in thought-provoking discussions such as this one.
Doesn't...
...
Let me try to repeat your premises and conclusion. Please tell me if I'm misunderstanding.
We attribute an uplifting tone and a sense of good value and worth to love
A sense of good value and worth is a pleasurable emotion
Therefore
A. It is a scientific fact that love is pleasurable...
That might be true, Matt. Perhaps you will help me consider it. In our example, we are talking about love. Please tell me: Is the definition of what love is a matter of scientific fact, so that nearly all scientists agree as to the one and only true way to define the concept of love? Or is the...
Yes, I agree that how you or I might feel or not feel about an act of love is a scientific fact. A scientists might measure the effect of witnessing such an act has on our brains.
But we are talking about something different, as well. We are talking about the premise that these feelings--or...
Outstanding! Do you know what we have here? It's a difference of opinion that is extremely ancient. The young Socrates and the Stohic philosopher Protagoras spoke of the very thing we are discussing now more than 300 years before Jesus was born.
You see, Protagoras said, "Man is the measure...
Yes, it would seem so. These words and acts committed about 2,000 years ago had nothing he would find of value, worth, beauty, meaning or greatness. They were valueless, worthless words and ugly, meaningless acts. There is nothing great about them.
But then it makes me wonder, and the words of...
Yes, and I think we might say it is not just his words that lack greatness, but also the actions that led to his tortureous death. (I say torturous because the word excruciating comes from the Latin word meaning something like "out of the cross." The Romans perfected the method to ensure the...
Yes, indeed, and I apologize for the delayed reply. In fact, another biblical author describes him as sweating drops of blood, which is a medical condition brought on by great duress.
Now let's skip his brutal beating and the mocking and carrying the heavy cross on his torn back through crowded...
"My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death." I'm thinking the opposite of pleasure. You must be thinking the same?
Now remember what you said (or please correct me if I misunderstood): It is pleasure--not an absense of pleasure nor pain--that makes words or deeds lack value...
What I have in mind is Jesus Christ. Specifically the events leading to his death. They are an illustration I think we might use to help us--a laboratory so to speak to test your idea. For example:
38 Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and...
Excellent. I now have a clearer understanding of what you are saying. I do not have the experience of it, for although I have lesser feelings than most, I have never experienced just living all the time. I have, however at times felt pain rather than pleasure for things I have said and done...
And are you of the opinion that words that are "just words" and actions that are "just actions" and lives that is "just life" have no value because no pleasure is felt by the ones speaking, doing and living them? Or do they have no value for some other reason?
Yes, I agree. Thinking about living is not really living. For when someone dreams, she is not living, but merely imagining that she is living! What we say and do--now that is truly living. It is an expression of our thoughts--words communicating to others what we think and actions communicating...
So are you saying this? What makes a thought, word or deed valuable are the feelings it produces in the one thinking, saying or doing it. If the feelings it produces are pleasurable, then the thought, word or deed has a positive value. If the feelings they produce are painful, then they have a...
I find your writing clear, concise and cogent.
By thought, do you mean an understanding that it is valuable to others? By sense, do you mean a feeling of satisfaction at having accomplished something valuable to others?
Well, Buddhists, Stohic philosophers and the science fiction character...
Katzpur:
Not long at all! Thanks for telling me. I think Latter Day Saints are too often the brunt of jokes, so that non-Mormons are hesitant to take them seriously. I've spoken to several and found them to be sincere, friendly, thoughtful, non-judgmental and to have a good sense of humor. My...