20 Signs that God exist, and Quraan is the word of God

[Sabour]

What do you think happen to the 1/3 of the angels that God removed from Heaven (according to the Bible)?

I don't take by the bible except for what is confirmed by the Quraan.

 

[FearGod]

Look, we don't need to adapt anything or speak about something we don't know just to please people. Islam is perfect. If we tried to put our interpretations and come up with things it won't be anymore.

Don't try to force evolution. Don't reject the hadith if it doesn't make sense for us. This is a lack of our understandings, not because they are wrong.

7:12 Sahih International
[ Allah ] said, "What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you?" [Satan] said, "I am better than him. You created me from fire and created him from clay."

May i ask you one question ?
Are you created from clay ?

Was Jesus pbuh created from clay ?

 

[Sabour]

May i ask you one question ?
Are you created from clay ?

Was Jesus pbuh created from clay ?

What I said was to answer what you said that Adam and Eve evolved from Jinns.


And what you are saying is another matter, it has no relation to evolution.

 

[FearGod]

What I said was to answer what you said that Adam and Eve evolved from Jinns.


And what you are saying is another matter, it has no relation to evolution.

The best way to realize facts is by questioning.

Do you believe that Jinns(fire) can possess the human body(clay) ?

 

[Ingledsva]

Sign 21, Fact of evolution and that there were humans who were extincted and that modern human have been evolved and created from the genes or seeds of the extincted ones.

Several translations for Verse (6:133)

Your Lord is Free of all wants; (He is) the Lord of Mercy. If He wants, He can wipe you out, and have another people _ whomever He wants _ succeed you, just as He raised you from the genes of a different nation.


And your Lord is the Free of need, the possessor of mercy. If He wills, he can do away with you and give succession after you to whomever He wills, just as He produced you from the descendants of another people.


And thy Sustainer alone is self-sufficient, limitless in His grace. If He so wills, He may put an end to you and thereafter cause whom He wills to succeed you - even as He has brought you into being out of other people's seed.

Not one of these three translation of 6:133 says anything about evolution, or being raised out of extinct anything!


If you are the descendants of another people - those people obviously were not extinct!


All of Surah 6 seems to be saying - follow the word of God that you have been given - because God can replace you (as the chosen) at any time.


It appears to be pointing out in Surah 6:100, that some originally had the knowledge and went wrong by assigning Sons and Daughters to ONE God.


6:100

6:117[Say], "Then is it other than Allah I should seek as judge while it is He who has revealed to you the Book explained in detail?" And those to whom We [previously] gave the Scripture know that it is sent down from your Lord in truth, so never be among the doubters.

6:125 So whoever Allah wants to guide - He expands his breast to [contain] Islam; and whoever He wants to misguide - He makes his breast tight and constricted as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus does Allah place defilement upon those who do not believe.

6:130 O company of jinn and mankind, did there not come to you messengers from among you, relating to you My verses and warning you of the meeting of this Day of yours?" They will say, "We bear witness against ourselves"; and the worldly life had deluded them, and they will bear witness against themselves that they were disbelievers.

6:131 That is because your Lord would not destroy the cities for wrongdoing while their people were unaware.


6:132 And for all are degrees from what they have done. And your Lord is not unaware of what they do.


6:133 And your Lord is the Free of need, the possessor of mercy. If He wills, he can do away with you and give succession after you to whomever He wills, just as He produced you from the descendants of another people.


6:154 Then We gave Moses the Scripture, making complete [Our favor] upon the one who did good and as a detailed explanation of all things and as guidance and mercy that perhaps in [the matter of] the meeting with their Lord they would believe.


6:156 [We revealed it] lest you say, "The Scripture was only sent down to two groups before us, but we were of their study unaware,"


6:165 And it is He who has made you successors upon the earth and has raised some of you above others in degrees [of rank] that He may try you through what He has given you. Indeed, your Lord is swift in penalty; but indeed, He is Forgiving and Merciful.


This Surah is not talking about evolution. It is talking about succession of "Gods chosen people." This is very obvious if you read the whole thing in context - and especially the last verse PROVES IT!


Read the whole thing.



Sorry about the edit - I accidently hit the wrong button. LOL!


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[Sabour]

The best way to realize facts is by questioning.

Do you believe that Jinns(fire) can possess the human body(clay) ?

Here it is where it gets complicated. Things like this are beyond our understanding and questioning.

Does fire get burned by fire? And you know what I mean by that question

 

[FearGod]

Not one of these three translation of 6:133 says anything about evolution, or being raised out of extinct anything!


If you are the descendants of another people - those people obviously were not extinct!


All of Surah 6 seems to be saying - follow the word of God that you have been given - because God can replace you (as the chosen) at any time.


It appears to be pointing out in Surah 6:100, that some originally had the knowledge and went wrong by assigning Sons and Daughters to ONE God.


6:100

6:117[Say], "Then is it other than Allah I should seek as judge while it is He who has revealed to you the Book explained in detail?" And those to whom We [previously] gave the Scripture know that it is sent down from your Lord in truth, so never be among the doubters.

6:125 So whoever Allah wants to guide - He expands his breast to [contain] Islam; and whoever He wants to misguide - He makes his breast tight and constricted as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus does Allah place defilement upon those who do not believe.

6:130O company of jinn and mankind, did there not come to you messengers from among you, relating to you My verses and warning you of the meeting of this Day of yours?" They will say, "We bear witness against ourselves"; and the worldly life had deluded them, and they will bear witness against themselves that they were disbelievers.

6:

This Surah is not talking about evolution.


Read the whole thing.



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Here is the verse in several translations

And thy Sustainer alone is self-sufficient, limitless in His grace. If He so wills, He may put an end to you and thereafter cause whom He wills to succeed you - even as He has brought you into being out of other people's seed.

Thy Lord is the Absolute, the Lord of Mercy. If He will, He can remove you and can cause what He will to follow after you, even as He raised you from the seed of other folk.

Your Lord is Free of all wants; (He is) the Lord of Mercy. If He wants, He can wipe you out, and have another people _ whomever He wants _ succeed you, just as He raised you from the genes of a different nation.

And your Lord is the Free of need, the possessor of mercy. If He wills, he can do away with you and give succession after you to whomever He wills, just as He produced you from the descendants of another people.

Your Lord is the self-sufficient One, the merciful. If He wills, He can take you away and replace you by anyone He pleases, just as He raised you from the offspring of other people.

God is not speaking to the believers or to Muslims but to humans.
The verse says in clear words that if he wishes he can wipe us all(all humans,not according to religion but to species),then from us(modern human) he will bring a new creation,similar to the way he did before and brought us from the previous ones(which means the wiped species).

I think it is even clear in English that i don't even need to clear it in its original language

 

[Ingledsva]

You said that the ability of smell is a survival skill for the dogs,so as to show it as a stupid idea then i have to ask you how the goat survived.

You are missing the point. YOU brought up smell.


Goats survived by whatever evolution deemed necessary for their ancestors survival, for their environment.




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[Ingledsva]

Here is the verse in several translations

And thy Sustainer alone is self-sufficient, limitless in His grace. If He so wills, He may put an end to you and thereafter cause whom He wills to succeed you - even as He has brought you into being out of other people's seed.

Thy Lord is the Absolute, the Lord of Mercy. If He will, He can remove you and can cause what He will to follow after you, even as He raised you from the seed of other folk.

Your Lord is Free of all wants; (He is) the Lord of Mercy. If He wants, He can wipe you out, and have another people _ whomever He wants _ succeed you, just as He raised you from the genes of a different nation.

And your Lord is the Free of need, the possessor of mercy. If He wills, he can do away with you and give succession after you to whomever He wills, just as He produced you from the descendants of another people.

Your Lord is the self-sufficient One, the merciful. If He wills, He can take you away and replace you by anyone He pleases, just as He raised you from the offspring of other people.

God is not speaking to the believers or to Muslims but to humans.
The verse says in clear words that if he wishes he can wipe us all(all humans,not according to religion but to species),then from us(modern human) he will bring a new creation,similar to the way he did before and brought us from the previous ones(which means the wiped species).

I think it is even clear in English that i don't even need to clear it in its original language

None of which is about EVOLUTION - even though the new "translators" are trying to fudge it into scientific knowledge.



Read in context this is OBVIOUS.




PS - Go back and read the FULL version. I accidently hit the post button before I was finished, - and that is the one you read.



It is number 385.



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[FearGod]

Here it is where it gets complicated. Things like this are beyond our understanding and questioning.

Does fire get burned by fire? And you know what I mean by that question

Which is punished,the body or the soul ?
Are we souls or we are bodies ?
if our bodies are made from clay then from what our souls are made and from what the Jinns souls are made ?

The spirits are the only thing that we can never understand ?

 

[Sabour]

Which is punished,the body or the soul ?
Are we souls or we are bodies ?
if our bodies are made from clay then from what our souls are made and from what the Jinns souls are made ?

The spirits are the only thing that we can never understand ?

I dont know.

But you are trying to relate things the wrong way.

I have always been cautous of the scientific approach to Quraan because sometimes we get overexcited.

We can't with our limited understanding know everything. God has told us all we need to know.

 

[FearGod]

None of which is about EVOLUTION - even though the new "translators" are trying to fudge it into scientific knowledge.



Read in context this is OBVIOUS.




PS - Go back and read the FULL version. I accidently hit the post button before I was finished, - and that is the one you read.



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It isn't about scientific knowledge but about facts and signs, you gave your opinion out of ignorance,you aren't even show a rational reason to say that the verse doesn't mean what it means,even though that i brought several translations then you only accuse them of translating it in such away as to appear scientific.

Do you know the Arabic language so we can discuss it away from those translations.

 

[Ingledsva]

It isn't about scientific knowledge but about facts and signs, you gave your opinion out of ignorance,you aren't even show a rational reason to say that the verse doesn't mean what it means,even though that i brought several translations then you only accuse them of translating it in such away as to appear scientific.

Do you know the Arabic language so we can discuss it away from those translations.

LOL! Stop spouting that BULL.


I used the translation/interpretation you folks prefer - and that you keep using - Sahih International, - and read in context - 6 - does not mean what you are trying to say it means.


NO EVOLUTION in 6.


I PROVED it by showing the text in CONTEXT!



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[beenie]

LOL! Stop spouting that BULL.


I used the translation/interpretation you folks prefer - and that you keep using - Sahih International, - and read in context - 6 - does not mean what you are trying to say it means.


NO EVOLUTION in 6.


I PROVED it by showing the text in CONTEXT!



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So you think you know more Arabic than Arabic-speaking folks? They don't need translations, we do.

It might be time to give up; you're not going to win this one.

 

[beenie]

... and before you accuse me of trying to "hide" the real meaning, etc., let me make one thing clear:

I do NOT think the Qur'an is a scientific book, I don't think it is scientifically accurate, and I do believe that there are a lot of people who stretch the verses to mean what they want it to.

However, I don't argue with Arabic-speaking people about THEIR language... it just makes me look stupid.

 

[FearGod]

LOL! Stop spouting that BULL.


I used the translation/interpretation you folks prefer - and that you keep using - Sahih International, - and read in context - 6 - does not mean what you are trying to say it means.


NO EVOLUTION in 6.


I PROVED it by showing the text in CONTEXT!



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I showed you 4 translations which all means the same, if you have other meaning for verse 6:133 then bring it here for discussion.

Verse 6:130 makes it clear that God is speaking about all his creations on earth of Jinn and Humankind , so it is about the species of humankind.

O ye assembly of the jinn and humankind! Came there not unto you messengers of your own who recounted unto you My tokens and warned you of the meeting of this your Day? They will say: We testify against ourselves. And the life of the world beguiled them. And they testify against themselves that they were disbelievers.

verse 6:133 show with no doubt that there were other kind of people who were extincted and their seeds are related to us.

Your Lord is Transcendent, the Master of Mercy; if He so wished, He would remove you and bring replacements for you in any way He wishes, just as He has produced you from the offspring of other people.

 

[Ingledsva]

I showed you 4 translations which all means the same, if you have other meaning for verse 6:133 then bring it here for discussion.

Verse 6:130 makes it clear that God is speaking about all his creations on earth of Jinn and Humankind , so it is about the species of humankind.

O ye assembly of the jinn and humankind! Came there not unto you messengers of your own who recounted unto you My tokens and warned you of the meeting of this your Day? They will say: We testify against ourselves. And the life of the world beguiled them. And they testify against themselves that they were disbelievers.

verse 6:133 show with no doubt that there were other kind of people who were extincted and their seeds are related to us.

Your Lord is Transcendent, the Master of Mercy; if He so wished, He would remove you and bring replacements for you in any way He wishes, just as He has produced you from the offspring of other people.

NONE of the translations you used means evolution, - because the Surah 6 isn't about that.


That is very obvious when kept in context with the surrounding text.


You folks trying to fudge modern science into ancient texts, are just making the religion look stupid.


Several people have already told you that you are doing your religion a great disservice.


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[YmirGF]

NONE of the translations you used means evolution, - because the Surah 6 isn't about that.


That is very obvious when kept in context with the surrounding text.


You folks trying to fudge modern science into ancient texts, are just making the religion look stupid.


Several people have already told you that you are doing your religion a great disservice.


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That has led me to the idea that these so-called "Scientific Miracles" are not actually meant to convince any non-Muslim readers. They are intended for Muslim audiences and are elaborate examples of the Forer Effect and confirmation bias. The reason for this is to erase any discrepancies in the Qur'an found by modern science to make the Qur'an conform to science as the Qur'an can never be seen to be in error. A major problem with this is that scientific theory in constantly evolving whilst the Qur'an cannot, by default, change in any way.

One can imagine the embarrassment felt by Muslims if a given scientific idea is suddenly tossed aside in light of new findings and they have been explaining why their text means the now discredited definitions.

However, my money is on the notion that Islam will collapse under their mistaken attitudes on sexuality.... IF god got that so very wrong, what else did he get wrong?

 

[FearGod]

Several people have already told you that you are doing your religion a great disservice.


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Several people.
And you are worried too about religion.

Your reason (if any) for saying it isn't about evolution is a stupid one.

Actually evolution of species were studied all along with religion in the Islamic schools before Darwin was even born.

Al Jahiz,a muslim scientist of the 9th century had authored a book (Al hayawan) in which he said

Animals engage in a struggle for existence; for resources, to avoid being eaten and to breed. Environmental factors influence organisms to develop new characteristics to ensure survival, thus transforming into new species. Animals that survive to breed can pass on their successful characteristics to offspring

Reference: Muslim Scientists and Thinkers–Al-Jahiz Abu Uthman ibn Bahar : The Muslim Observer

[youtube]g66o9Pkyq08[/youtube]
What does Islam say about the evolution theory? - Q&A - Abdur-Raheem Green - YouTube

 

[FearGod]

That has led me to the idea that these so-called "Scientific Miracles" are not actually meant to convince any non-Muslim readers. They are intended for Muslim audiences and are elaborate examples of the Forer Effect and confirmation bias. The reason for this is to erase any discrepancies in the Qur'an found by modern science to make the Qur'an conform to science as the Qur'an can never be seen to be in error. A major problem with this is that scientific theory in constantly evolving whilst the Qur'an cannot, by default, change in any way.

One can imagine the embarrassment felt by Muslims if a given scientific idea is suddenly tossed aside in light of new findings and they have been explaining why their text means the now discredited definitions.

However, my money is on the notion that Islam will collapse under their mistaken attitudes on sexuality.... IF god got that so very wrong, what else did he get wrong?

You are absolutely wrong as evolution in species was taught in the Islamic schools before Darwin has even been born,but the difference that we believe God is the evolver whereas you believe of magical occurrences with no prior plan or design which is a stupid idea to believe in regardless of religion.

I don't know if you will live 100 more years to see Islam collapsing,so keep dreaming for the afterlife.

[youtube]Ugu3cZN-3jU[/youtube]
Evolution was an Islamic Theory Before Darwin was Even Born - YouTube