Thief
Rogue Theologian
you would know....
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A Universe from Nothing?
- Thread starter Tomorrows_Child
- Start date
McBell
Unbound
Are you feeling ok?
You have lost your edge?
Bad day perhaps?
Hope it gets better for you.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
are you going to make a statement ?......or just troll...
McBell
Unbound
That you choose to ignore statements does not make them go away
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Well fine, go ahead and knock yourselves out....my mind is at peace wrt the question... You see your starting point for the universe is that once there was nothing...but since there is something now, in order to prove your hypothesis, the onus is on you to prove that nothing exits...Actually though there is no science being done to establish an absolute nothing, the absence of all universal substance, because no one really believes it is possible.....instead they hope that with some suitable rhetoric like "there is no before because time did not yet exist", the limited human mind will just accept it is a reasonable explanation.. On the other hand my position is supported by facts....no one disputes the universe exists.....and no logic or science in existence that can make it to cease existing.... Iow, if there is no way to turn universal existence into nothing.......hence it will continue to exist....end of story...the universe is eternal...@ben d
All claims need a proof to be accepted. If "universe from nothing" is proved wrong, "universe is eternal" will automatically be established. Actually, we are doing your work. At the moment what you say is only a claim (without proof). So also the claims of existence of God (and his sons, daughters, messengers, manifestations, mahdis, prophets, etc.).
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Why just on me? It applies to you too in the same measure. That the universe exists now is common to both. That doe not prove your point.
Do you think science will not advance from the present position in 21st Century or in 22nd Century? We will be faced with many more problems. The search hardly ever ends. Many universe is a mathematical/Quantum interpretation which does not face any such problem which may cause it to be rejected.
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Isn't nothingness relative? I mean, nothingness could never be proven because it is the absence of something right?
Can we prove darkness? No! Darkness has no existence. It is an absence of light. We don't see dark we see less light. Complete non existence would mean God doesn't exist so how did the universe exist if it had no creator? God always existed so existence always was. So we say existence is eternal because it could not have existed without a creator. By existence I include God because God is an 'existence'. If God did not exist then the universe created itself? We don't see any sign that the universe created itself because we see signs the universe follows laws that it cannot deviate from and it does not have the intellectual ability to put in place such laws. Another Being we call God put in place processes and programmed living matter with DNA and gene mapping and coding, even a tiny seed is programmed. So there must be a Programmer.
Can we prove darkness? No! Darkness has no existence. It is an absence of light. We don't see dark we see less light. Complete non existence would mean God doesn't exist so how did the universe exist if it had no creator? God always existed so existence always was. So we say existence is eternal because it could not have existed without a creator. By existence I include God because God is an 'existence'. If God did not exist then the universe created itself? We don't see any sign that the universe created itself because we see signs the universe follows laws that it cannot deviate from and it does not have the intellectual ability to put in place such laws. Another Being we call God put in place processes and programmed living matter with DNA and gene mapping and coding, even a tiny seed is programmed. So there must be a Programmer.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Why do I need to try and prove that absolute nothing exists....my position that the universal existence is real and thus eternal, does not depend on there being an absolute nothing....yours does if you believe there was a beginning and so you must show that absolute nothing is a reality if you want to prove there was a beginning.Why just on me? It applies to you too in the same measure. That the universe exists now is common to both. That doe not prove your point.
Do you think science will not advance from the present position in 21st Century or in 22nd Century? We will be faced with many more problems. The search hardly ever ends. Many universe is a mathematical/Quantum interpretation which does not face any such problem which may cause it to be rejected.
The only way science can prove there is absolute nothing would be to create it.....but then there would be nothing in existence to ever know..haha
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Why do you imagine that universe manifestation is beyond the rules of physics.......it is clearly not....and there is no law of physics that allows something that exists to become absolute nothing....therefore universal existence is eternal, consistent with the laws of physics!
As I keep saying, if you believe there was a beginning to the universe, you need to prove absolute nothing is a reality...it is the essential prerequisite state to have a beginning...
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Which of course can never be proven.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
That the universe is eternal is in accordance with the laws of physics, no God is invoked, as I have shown....
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
You might keep saying so, but the question remains - what did it arise from? and Why? No, we are not trying to prove it one way or the other. We are only trying to get to the bottom of it. If it comes out to be eternal, that too is OK with science. Actually, it goes well with my belief - 'Advaita Hinduism'. But because my belief is something like that, it will not hinder me from favoring further research. You are keeping your mind closed.
Runewolf1973
Materialism/Animism
Either way somethingness and nothingness can both be seen as forms of potential. So I prefer to say just that....the universe came out of potential.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Somethingness is not a potential, it actually exists.....and absolute nothingness is not a potential, because it can not exist... Now if you want to believe in what you say, no problem....but if you imagine that there is scientific validity to your belief...then please back it up with some credible citation.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
You are not making sense.....how can eternity have a beginning?
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Fwiw, this may help readers to understand....all numbers can be used in the relative sense....but only one number can be used in the absolute sense...and that is the number ONE....as in the Universe..one cosmos. The concept of zero on the other hand exclusively implies relativity...not an absolute! No educated person on the planet would argue that 'nothing' is absolutely real...and nor would they deny that the one cosmos is absolutely real..
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Thank you friend Aupmanyav....
