A Universe from Nothing?

[Runewolf1973]

Somethingness is not a potential, it actually exists.....and absolute nothingness is not a potential, because it can not exist... Now if you want to believe in what you say, no problem....but if you imagine that there is scientific validity to your belief...then please back it up with some credible citation.

Somethingness would be physical or material things which have energy and the potential to change into other things. In somethingness there is potential. Nothingness can be seen as the void/vacuum of space where there is the potential for somethingness. There is no such thing as absolute nothingness since there is always potential. Perhaps there is no such thing as absolute somethingness either. Whatever there is is half-way between something and nothing. Therein lies potential. What I am saying is that all there is is potential. An empty cup has the potential to be full. A full cup has the potential to be empty. Such is my view of the universe.

Btw, has science come to a definitive conclusion as the whether something came from nothing or if something always existed? I don't think so. So why do you ask me to provide scientific validity for that which even science has no definitive answers? A belief is a belief. Logic tells me that everything is potential in one way or another. Perhaps somethingness and nothingness are only perceptions. All that exists is that which has the potential to be percieved as either something or nothing.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Fwiw, this may help readers to understand....all numbers can be used in the relative sense....but only one number can be used in the absolute sense...and that is the number ONE....as in the Universe..one cosmos. The concept of zero on the other hand exclusively implies relativity...not an absolute! No educated person on the planet would argue that 'nothing' is absolutely real...and nor would they deny that the one cosmos is absolutely real..

You must have read this... From the Baha'i Book Some Answered Questions!! Amazing!! Here the number one is mentioned exactly as you say!!!

“There is no doubt that initially there was a single origin: There cannot have been two origins. For the origin of all numbers is one and not two; the number two is itself in need of an origin. It is therefore evident that originally matter was one, and that one matter appeared in a different form in each element. Thus various forms appeared, and as they appeared, they each assumed an independent form and became a specific element. But this distinction attained its full completion and realization only after a very long time. Then these elements were composed, arranged, and combined in infinite forms; in other words, from the composition and combination of these elements countless beings “appeared.

This composition and arrangement arose, through the wisdom of God and His ancient might, from one natural order.”

Excerpt From: Bahá, Abdu’l. “Some Answered Questions.”

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Somethingness would be physical or material things which have energy and the potential to change into other things. In somethingness there is potential. Nothingness can be seen as the void/vacuum of space where there is the potential for somethingness. There is no such thing as absolute nothingness since there is always potential. Perhaps there is no such thing as absolute somethingness either. Whatever there is is half-way between something and nothing. Therein lies potential. What I am saying is that all there is is potential. An empty cup has the potential to be full. A full cup has the potential to be empty. Such is my view of the universe.

Btw, has science come to a definitive conclusion as the whether something came from nothing or if something always existed? I don't think so. So why do you ask me to provide scientific validity for that which even science has no definitive answers? A belief is a belief. Logic tells me that everything is potential in one way or another. Perhaps somethingness and nothingness are only perceptions. All that exists is that which has the potential to be percieved as either something or nothing.

I was not talking about the temporary forms for these are subject to beginnings and endings...but that which had no beginning...the essence underlying the unity of the cosmos.. But fwiw, indeed this underlying universal substance has the potential for becoming any and all manifested forms in existence..

There is no absolute nothing in the vacuum of space (or anywhere for that matter)....there is reduction in the density of atoms, but the zpe density of the 'vacuum' remains the same. So were in agreement on this...there is no such thing as absolute nothingness!

Now is this potential you talk about eternal in nature or did it have a beginning?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You must have read this... From the Baha'i Book Some Answered Questions!! Amazing!! Here the number one is mentioned exactly as you say!!!

“There is no doubt that initially there was a single origin: There cannot have been two origins. For the origin of all numbers is one and not two; the number two is itself in need of an origin. It is therefore evident that originally matter was one, and that one matter appeared in a different form in each element. Thus various forms appeared, and as they appeared, they each assumed an independent form and became a specific element. But this distinction attained its full completion and realization only after a very long time. Then these elements were composed, arranged, and combined in infinite forms; in other words, from the composition and combination of these elements countless beings “appeared.

This composition and arrangement arose, through the wisdom of God and His ancient might, from one natural order.”

Excerpt From: Bahá, Abdu’l. “Some Answered Questions.”

No I had not read Baha'i Book Some Answered Questions, but I am not surprised that it is understood by the Baha'i religion. If one reflects on the oneness of existence, all numbers with the exception of zero can be seen to refer to differentiated aspects of the absolute ONE as perceived by the dualistic mind of man....and all numbers including zero are used in the context of relativity of the perceived aspects of the ONE.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

There are some things even the smartest minds cannot understand because they require faith There are several theories about how the universe began but none can be absolutely proven. Some things are larger than the human mind can grasp. The existense of God also cannot be absolutely proven. So the scientific minds will continue to have faith in science and the religious minds will have faith in religion. It is useless to argue over who is right or wrong because neither side has absolute proof.

 

[loverofhumanity]

There are some things even the smartest minds cannot understand because they require faith There are several theories about how the universe began but none can be absolutely proven. Some things are larger than the human mind can grasp. The existense of God also cannot be absolutely proven. So the scientific minds will continue to have faith in science and the religious minds will have faith in religion. It is useless to argue over who is right or wrong because neither side has absolute proof.

True. We humans do have our limitations. We are not all knowing.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

There are some things even the smartest minds cannot understand because they require faith There are several theories about how the universe began but none can be absolutely proven. Some things are larger than the human mind can grasp. The existense of God also cannot be absolutely proven. So the scientific minds will continue to have faith in science and the religious minds will have faith in religion. It is useless to argue over who is right or wrong because neither side has absolute proof.

Hmmmm...when you say the existence of God cannot be absolutely proven...do you mean just objectively scientifically...or also subjectively? If you include the subjective, you are in error as you can not possibly know what others understand or have experienced subjectively. But you are correct that it matters not that there are those who disbelieve in all things that can not objectively proven....nor that there are those who claim to have certain knowledge of God through inner experience...we each are, by our daily thoughts and actions, creating our own destiny...."the means to an end, will become the end"..

 

[YmirGF]

No I had not read Baha'i Book Some Answered Questions, but I am not surprised that it is understood by the Baha'i religion. If one reflects on the oneness of existence, all numbers with the exception of zero can be seen to refer to differentiated aspects of the absolute ONE as perceived by the dualistic mind of man....and all numbers including zero are used in the context of relativity of the perceived aspects of the ONE.

Not exactly the deepest observation, Ben.

 

[Thief]

That the universe is eternal is in accordance with the laws of physics, no God is invoked, as I have shown....

so God is not the Creator?

 

[YmirGF]

Hmmmm...when you say the existence of God cannot be absolutely proven...do you mean just objectively scientifically...or also subjectively? If you include the subjective, you are in error as you can not possibly know what others understand or have experienced subjectively. But you are correct that it matters not that there are those who disbelieve in all things that can not objectively proven....nor that there are those who claim to have certain knowledge of God through inner experience...we each are, by our daily thoughts and actions, creating our own destiny...."the means to an end, will become the end"..

Oddly, that's something I've been trying to tell you, in various ways, for quite some time. Experiences conforms to expectations and existing belief structures. Only rarely can experience leapfrog past this inner self-created barrier. Unfortunately, simply stilling the thoughts and the mind is not enough to overcome this, though it is true that some could easily fool themselves into believing otherwise.

 

[Thief]

Fwiw, this may help readers to understand....all numbers can be used in the relative sense....but only one number can be used in the absolute sense...and that is the number ONE....as in the Universe..one cosmos. The concept of zero on the other hand exclusively implies relativity...not an absolute! No educated person on the planet would argue that 'nothing' is absolutely real...and nor would they deny that the one cosmos is absolutely real..

0....zero.....as in.....void

no light....no shadow
no sound....no echo
no touchie .....feelie....

no means to say .....I AM!

and yet the universe is here.....and we are here to confirm it

God did it

 

[Thief]

Oddly, that's something I've been trying to tell you, in various ways, for quite some time. Experiences conforms to expectations and existing belief structures. Only rarely can experience leapfrog past this inner self-created barrier. Unfortunately, simply stilling the thoughts and the mind is not enough to overcome this, though it is true that some could easily fool themselves into believing otherwise.

surprise!!!!!!
as in......unexpected experience
as in Moses on the mount....

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Not exactly the deepest observation, Ben.

Well certainly deeper than your one liner response...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Oddly, that's something I've been trying to tell you, in various ways, for quite some time. Experiences conforms to expectations and existing belief structures. Only rarely can experience leapfrog past this inner self-created barrier. Unfortunately, simply stilling the thoughts and the mind is not enough to overcome this, though it is true that some could easily fool themselves into believing otherwise.

If that is how you see it....that is how you see it....good for you my friend. What others have realized wrt reality beyond the conceptual interpretation and the way it was realized should not concern you unless you feel frustrated by your present limitations and desire greater understanding...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

so God is not the Creator?

The absolute omnipresent eternal creation, manifest and unmanifest is the one God!

 

[Ben Dhyan]

0....zero.....as in.....void

no light....no shadow
no sound....no echo
no touchie .....feelie....

no means to say .....I AM!

and yet the universe is here.....and we are here to confirm it

God did it

Yes...you are using 'no' as an adjective to denote the relative opposite states of the noun following...

There is no absolute void, it only implies relativity....the absence of something... The idea of a void in some contexts is like that of a vacuum.....but as we know zpe is omnipresent and thus there is still something...so the void is not absolute nothing...

 

[Runewolf1973]

I was not talking about the temporary forms for these are subject to beginnings and endings...but that which had no beginning...the essence underlying the unity of the cosmos.. But fwiw, indeed this underlying universal substance has the potential for becoming any and all manifested forms in existence..

There is no absolute nothing in the vacuum of space (or anywhere for that matter)....there is reduction in the density of atoms, but the zpe density of the 'vacuum' remains the same. So were in agreement on this...there is no such thing as absolute nothingness!

Now is this potential you talk about eternal in nature or did it have a beginning?

I believe that eternity IS potential, so there always was and forever will be potential. Potential doesn't begin or end it just IS.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I believe that eternity IS potential, so there always was and forever will be potential. Potential doesn't begin or end it just IS.

I would call potential an indivisible aspect of the eternal universal essence.....but I can live with your position...

 

[Runewolf1973]

I would call potential an indivisible aspect of the eternal universal essence.....but I can live with your position...

I like how you say it better anyways.

 

[YmirGF]

Well certainly deeper than your one liner response...

If you say so, Ben. It's really relatively meaningless though I'm sure some might think it clever.

If that is how you see it....that is how you see it....good for you my friend. What others have realized wrt reality beyond the conceptual interpretation and the way it was realized should not concern you unless you feel frustrated by your present limitations and desire greater understanding...

If yours is the "greater understanding" I think I'd prefer to remain ignorant.