Abortion is never justifiable, even in rape cases

[ruffen]

Abortion is wrong, even when a woman is raped because it is not the child's fault.

If God wills a child to be born then so be it, the manner of conception is up to Him.

Women having abortions and their doctors should be punished.

I believe that is fair, do you?

But, if God wills that the woman goes to a doctor and has an abortion then so be it too, no?

Also, if you think that every rape that results in pregnancy is the will of God, then the problem of evil just got even nastier, as God then sanctions this kind of evil.

 

[Sonofason]

But, if God wills that the woman goes to a doctor and has an abortion then so be it too, no?

Also, if you think that every rape that results in pregnancy is the will of God, then the problem of evil just got even nastier, as God then sanctions this kind of evil.

Yes, If God wills abortions, then so be it. Now please show that abortions are God's will.

Yes, If rape is the will of God, it gets nastier. Now please show that rape is the will of God.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Yes, If God wills abortions, then so be it. Now please show that abortions are God's will.

Can you show that abortions are not God's will?

When a tornado tears through a community, killing some and sparing others, do you think that either the killing or the sparing is God's will?

 

[Mycroft]

Can you show that abortions are not God's will?

When a tornado tears through a community, killing some and sparing others, do you think that either the killing or the sparing is God's will?

More to the point, what when a tornado or hurricane or any sort of natural disaster rips through a town and kills a pregnant woman, does he think think this is part of god's will?

god did also command Abraham to kill his own infant son. Technically this would be an abortion.

 

[Sonofason]

Can you show that abortions are not God's will?

When a tornado tears through a community, killing some and sparing others, do you think that either the killing or the sparing is God's will?

I'm going out on a limb here. I could be wrong. I do not "know" God's will. I only know what men have written down concerning His will, and also my own personal feelings on the subject and my own personal perception of God's will on this subject.

God said, "Thou shalt not kill".

He did not say "I shalt not kill." His commandments, if they are indeed His commandments, are for us. We belong to Him. He is the potter, and we are the clay. He can take anything that belongs to Him. We do not have the right to take that which does not belong to us? Everything belongs to God.

 

[Sonofason]

More to the point, what when a tornado or hurricane or any sort of natural disaster rips through a town and kills a pregnant woman, does he think think this is part of god's will?

god did also command Abraham to kill his own infant son. Technically this would be an abortion.

Why don't you ask "him" what "he" thinks?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I'm going out on a limb here. I could be wrong. I do not "know" God's will. I only know what men have written down concerning His will,

I thought you argued in another thread that we should never claim to know what we cannot know. We should instead say, "Well, it's my personal belief that the Christian Bible contains the Will and Word of God."''

Why do you claim to know what you can't know?

God said, "Thou shalt not kill".

So you are anti-war? You don't believe in defending yourself with deadly force? How about capital punishment? You wouldn't kill a man who was rampaging through an elementary school with a high-powered rifle?

We do not have the right to take that which does not belong to us? Everything belongs to God.

I'll kill anyone who threatens my life, and not the least regret about it.

For just one example of my willingness to ignore 'God's commandment.'

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Why don't you ask "him" what "he" thinks?

We would, if he would just give us the common courtesy to actually answer back.

 

[adi2d]

god did also command Abraham to kill his own infant son. Technically this would be an abortion.

Abraham killing his son would be murder. The son had the breath of life

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Yes, If God wills abortions, then so be it. Now please show that abortions are God's will.

Yes, If rape is the will of God, it gets nastier. Now please show that rape is the will of God.

Although it is not an example of abortion, there is a passage in the Bible where the will of God involves the murder of children. Whenever Elisha was passing by, some children were making Elisha's bald spot, so God, being the "loving and merciful god" he is, sends two female bears to maul the children to death, but it's "okay" if God does it, right?

 

[Sonofason]

Sonofason had written:

I'm going out on a limb here. I could be wrong. I do not "know" God's will. I only know what men have written down concerning His will, and also my own personal feelings on the subject and my own personal perception of God's will on this subject.

AmbiguousGuy:

I thought you argued in another thread that we should never claim to know what we cannot know. We should instead say, "Well, it's my personal belief that the Christian Bible contains the Will and Word of God."''

I believe I just said, "I do not "know" God's will. I only know what men have written down." I suggest you learn the difference between belief and knowledge. Men wrote down what they believed was true concerning God's will. I know what they wrote. I can read it. If they are right, and my personal impression of God is right, then I would be most justified in holding the beliefs I have because they would be true. As it is, I believe that what I have been convinced is true, is indeed true.

Sonofason had written:

God said, "Thou shalt not kill".

AmbiguousGuy:
So you are anti-war? You don't believe in defending yourself with deadly force? How about capital punishment? You wouldn't kill a man who was rampaging through an elementary school with a high-powered rifle?

It is a well known fact that the word kill from the commandment "Thou shalt not kill", is referring to murder.
New International Version
"You shall not murder.

New Living Translation
"You must not murder.

English Standard Version
“You shall not murder.

New American Standard Bible
"You shall not murder.

King James Bible
Thou shalt not kill.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Do not murder.

International Standard Version
"You are not to commit murder.

NET Bible
"You shall not murder.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
"Never murder.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Thou shalt not murder.

King James 2000 Bible
You shall not kill.

American King James Version
You shall not kill.

American Standard Version
Thou shalt not kill.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Thou shalt not kill.

Darby Bible Translation
Thou shalt not kill.

English Revised Version
Thou shalt do no murder.

Webster's Bible Translation
Thou shalt not kill.

World English Bible
"You shall not murder.

Young's Literal Translation
'Thou dost not murder.

The Hebrew: לֹ֥֖א תִּֿרְצָֽ֖ח׃ ס Or literally translated "you do murder not"
Exodus 20:13 Hebrew Text Analysis

But nevertheless, I am set against war. I will however defend myself, but not without much remorse, sadness and fear.

So before making claims that everyone who kills another human being is somehow breaking God's commandment, I'd suggest first learning what the Bible actually says. You need to dig a little deeper. Things aren't always what they seem to be on the surface. Dig deeper.

 

[adi2d]

Sonofason had written:


AmbiguousGuy:


I believe I just said, "I do not "know" God's will. I only know what men have written down." I suggest you learn the difference between belief and knowledge. Men wrote down what they believed was true concerning God's will. I know what they wrote. I can read it. If they are right, and my personal impression of God is right, then I would be most justified in holding the beliefs I have because they would be true. As it is, I believe that what I have been convinced is true, is indeed true.

Sonofason had written:


AmbiguousGuy:
So you are anti-war? You don't believe in defending yourself with deadly force? How about capital punishment? You wouldn't kill a man who was rampaging through an elementary school with a high-powered rifle?

It is a well known fact that the word kill from the commandment "Thou shalt not kill", is referring to murder.
New International Version
"You shall not murder.

New Living Translation
"You must not murder.

English Standard Version
“You shall not murder.

New American Standard Bible
"You shall not murder.

King James Bible
Thou shalt not kill.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Do not murder.

International Standard Version
"You are not to commit murder.

NET Bible
"You shall not murder.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
"Never murder.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Thou shalt not murder.

King James 2000 Bible
You shall not kill.

American King James Version
You shall not kill.

American Standard Version
Thou shalt not kill.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Thou shalt not kill.

Darby Bible Translation
Thou shalt not kill.

English Revised Version
Thou shalt do no murder.

Webster's Bible Translation
Thou shalt not kill.

World English Bible
"You shall not murder.

Young's Literal Translation
'Thou dost not murder.

The Hebrew: ????? ???????????? ? Or literally translated "you do murder not"
Exodus 20:13 Hebrew Text Analysis

But nevertheless, I am set against war. I will however defend myself, but not without much remorse, sadness and fear.

So before making claims that everyone who kills another human being is somehow breaking God's commandment, I'd suggest first learning what the Bible actually says. You need to dig a little deeper. Things aren't always what they seem to be on the surface. Dig deeper.

Abortion is not murder. Maybe you should dig a little deeper also

 

[Sonofason]

We would, if he would just give us the common courtesy to actually answer back.

Well, you have my sincere apologies if I truly have neglected to give you an honest answer to any of your questions.

 

[Sonofason]

Abraham killing his son would be murder. The son had the breath of life

It never happened. Abraham did not kill his son.

 

[adi2d]

It never happened. Abraham did not kill his son.

Thank you captain obvious. The poster said if Abraham killed his infant son it would have been an abortion

 

[lewisnotmiller]

He did not say "I shalt not kill." His commandments, if they are indeed His commandments, are for us. We belong to Him. He is the potter, and we are the clay. He can take anything that belongs to Him. We do not have the right to take that which does not belong to us? Everything belongs to God.

I guess it sounds slightly more poetic to refer to God as the potter, and we as the clay, than referring to him as the puppet master, and we as the puppets.
But whichever analogy you want to use, this Creator has either directly created or allowed to develop a race with the capacity for critical thought. If his judgement is a hypocritical one which condemns me for using it, then so be it.

 

[Sonofason]

Although it is not an example of abortion, there is a passage in the Bible where the will of God involves the murder of children. Whenever Elisha was passing by, some children were making Elisha's bald spot, so God, being the "loving and merciful god" he is, sends two female bears to maul the children to death, but it's "okay" if God does it, right?

Yes. God is free to take anything that belongs to Him.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Well, you have my sincere apologies if I truly have neglected to give you an honest answer to any of your questions.

But you are not God. If I was to get a direct answer from God himself, I promise, I would convert in a heartbeat, I assure you, but I haven't. I've only heard from people claiming to speak for God. Anyone can claim to speak on behalf of God. I could claim that God told me that every Friday is "Funny-Hat Friday," but that does not make it so.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I believe I just said, "I do not "know" God's will. I only know what men have written down."

Um.....

Um.... that is a misquote of what you said. There is no period after the word 'down' in your quote.

Are you just trying to duck my question? To distort what you said so that you don't have to answer?

Let me ask you again: How do you know that the Bible writers wrote down the will of God?

I suggest you learn the difference between belief and knowledge.

Actually I'm the forum expert on that difference. It's why you seem so confused to me regarding it.

It is a well known fact that the word kill from the commandment "Thou shalt not kill", is referring to murder.

Ah. A well-known fact... says the expert on the difference between believing something and knowing something. Yikes.

'Murder' means 'offending secular laws regarding homicide'.

So which secular laws was God instructing us not to offend?

If they were not secular laws but rather divine laws, where can I find God's statutes regarding homicide? To what statutes is the commandment pointing?

So before making claims that everyone who kills another human being is somehow breaking God's commandment, I'd suggest first learning what the Bible actually says. You need to dig a little deeper. Things aren't always what they seem to be on the surface. Dig deeper.

Sure. And abortion is not murder, according to the Bible. I suggest you go back and do some reading. Dig deeper.

 

[Sonofason]

Abortion is not murder. Maybe you should dig a little deeper also

Actually, I believe it is.

1. To kill (another human) unlawfully.
2. To kill brutally or inhumanly.
murder - definition of murder by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

I believe that abortion is murder on account of this second definition.

Also, I believe abortion is murder because it is the killing of an innocent human life. Killing in self defense is justifiable. Killing innocent unborn children is not.