Acts of violence in the name of the Baha’i Faith

[TransmutingSoul]

A slave is slave!
No freedom. Domination. Enforcement. Mistreatment.

You're talking about something else when you mention service.

I will only further mention the modern meaning and ideas of a Slave is not the scriptural meaning, which is service or servant. Here is one link. Slave Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary

I consider that in the past God has given Laws to owning or taking into your care a servant.

All the best

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Source?

It would take a while to find the source quote, to which time I now have not, thus Shoghi Effendi has advised;

"Even though you are 79 years old, that does not seem in your case to be any handicap; and in this Cause, as the Guardian has told us there is work for everyone of some sort, of whatever age he or she may be." (Shoghi Effendi, Lights of Guidance, p. 625)

This is one Passage;

"It is enjoined upon every one of you to engage in some form of occupation, such as crafts, trades and the like, We have graciously exalted your engagement in such work to the rank of worship unto God, the True One. Ponder ye in your hearts the grace and the blessings of God and render thanks unto Him at eventide and at dawn. Waste not your time in idleness and sloth. Occupy yourselves with that which profiteth yourselves and others. Thus hath it been decreed in this Tablet from whose horizon the day-star of wisdom and utterance shineth resplendent." (Bahá’u’lláh: Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh revealed after the Kitab-i-Aqdas, 1978 World Centre ed., p. 26)

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

I will only further mention the modern meaning and ideas of a Slave is not the scriptural meaning, which is service or servant. Here is one link. Slave Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary

I consider that in the past God has given Laws to owning or taking into your care a servant.

All the best

Regards Tony

Tony..........
The Israelites were enslaved. They were not free.
Roman slaves who caused any trouble could be crucified etc and had few if any rights.

Slaves are slaves.

Now, you responses to Paul's clear support for slavery could well focus careful and further attention on to Bahai ideas about same.

 

[oldbadger]

It would take a while to find the source quote, to which time I now have not, thus Shoghi Effendi has advised;

"Even though you are 79 years old, that does not seem in your case to be any handicap; and in this Cause, as the Guardian has told us there is work for everyone of some sort, of whatever age he or she may be." (Shoghi Effendi, Lights of Guidance, p. 625)

This is one Passage;

"It is enjoined upon every one of you to engage in some form of occupation, such as crafts, trades and the like, We have graciously exalted your engagement in such work to the rank of worship unto God, the True One. Ponder ye in your hearts the grace and the blessings of God and render thanks unto Him at eventide and at dawn. Waste not your time in idleness and sloth. Occupy yourselves with that which profiteth yourselves and others. Thus hath it been decreed in this Tablet from whose horizon the day-star of wisdom and utterance shineth resplendent." (Bahá’u’lláh: Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh revealed after the Kitab-i-Aqdas, 1978 World Centre ed., p. 26)

Regards Tony

Oh not another problem!
As if there aren't enough human rights issues with Bahai we now find that a Bahai World would certainly not support Pension Plans, nor run any kind of graduated plan itself. Indeed, retirement and withdrawal from the World in last years may be unlawful.

The problem seems to surface that such a World would be somewhat like a beehive........... all working towards a single cause, but you surely wouldn't want to be a bee, would you?

Here in the UK our Equality Act 2010 and our British and EU Human Rights Acts give folks the freedom to work in old age or not, as they please........ and what we have saved for we can enjoy.

This is all just another problem with Bahai Politics, imo.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Oh not another problem!
As if there aren't enough human rights issues with Bahai we now find that a Bahai World would certainly not support Pension Plans, nor run any kind of graduated plan itself. Indeed, retirement and withdrawal from the World in last years may be unlawful.

The problem seems to surface that such a World would be somewhat like a beehive........... all working towards a single cause, but you surely wouldn't want to be a bee, would you?

Here in the UK our Equality Act 2010 and our British and EU Human Rights Acts give folks the freedom to work in old age or not, as they please........ and what we have saved for we can enjoy.

This is all just another problem with Bahai Politics, imo.

No this is not correct.

But I will not explain further.

The thread has demonstrated the intent of Baha'i about violence.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

No this is not correct.

But I will not explain further.

I didn't think that you could, Tony.

The thread has demonstrated the intent of Baha'i about violence.

Regards Tony

Not quite...... not yet it hasn't.
In a Bahai World, with armed Bahai Police forces, subjecting all to Bahai theocracy through Bahai Legislation............. these would be trained, prepared, equipped and armed in order to deliver force as required.

The biggest problem as I see it is that Bahai leaders, when assembled together (or at least in a quorum of five?) would feel secure in the knowledge that Bahauallah had written that they are infallible, and that their decisions could not possibly be wrong, and that any delivery of force against any perceived criminal uprising or multitude could only be good and true, by the grace of their God.

On a smaller scale the subjection of different convicted criminals to various executions could not be perceived as gentle, by any means. Again, Bahais would view these actions as good and true.

The reason why the religion 'Bahai' has not gained a reputation for force with violence at this time is because it has no power or strength to do so. But it's all there in the writings, as if tucked away like small print in terms and conditions. And so the World needs to read the Ts & Cs, of a Bahai World.

I'm not saying that the World is a heart-warming crucible of loving kindness and care today........ don't know anybody who thinks that, but it certainly wouldn't be in a Bahai World either.

 

[danieldemol]

It would take a while to find the source quote, to which time I now have not, thus Shoghi Effendi has advised;

"Even though you are 79 years old, that does not seem in your case to be any handicap; and in this Cause, as the Guardian has told us there is work for everyone of some sort, of whatever age he or she may be." (Shoghi Effendi, Lights of Guidance, p. 625)

This is one Passage;

"It is enjoined upon every one of you to engage in some form of occupation, such as crafts, trades and the like, We have graciously exalted your engagement in such work to the rank of worship unto God, the True One. Ponder ye in your hearts the grace and the blessings of God and render thanks unto Him at eventide and at dawn. Waste not your time in idleness and sloth. Occupy yourselves with that which profiteth yourselves and others. Thus hath it been decreed in this Tablet from whose horizon the day-star of wisdom and utterance shineth resplendent." (Bahá’u’lláh: Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh revealed after the Kitab-i-Aqdas, 1978 World Centre ed., p. 26)

Regards Tony

I think you have made a jump from the Guardian's acceptance of the service to the cause of people of all ages to reading into that that retirement is abolished, regarding the same passage of Baha'u'llah Shoghi Effendi has written;

"...As to the question of retirement from work for individuals who have reached a certain age, this is a matter on which the International House of Justice will have to legislate as there are no provisions in the Aqdas concerning it."

(Shoghi Effendi, Directives from the Guardian, p. 82)

In other words it is left to the discretion of the Universal House of Justice, and what a shame it would be given that science acknowledges that the body of the labourer wears out etc to deny them their pensions. It would be against their rights to enjoy the fruits of their labour in old age, and to not be literally worked to death. Even with workers of the mind, the mind loses it's capacity for memory etc beyond a certain age.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I think you have made a jump from the Guardian's acceptance of the service to the cause of people of all ages to reading into that that retirement is abolished, regarding the same passage of Baha'u'llah Shoghi Effendi has written;

"...As to the question of retirement from work for individuals who have reached a certain age, this is a matter on which the International House of Justice will have to legislate as there are no provisions in the Aqdas concerning it."

(Shoghi Effendi, Directives from the Guardian, p. 82)

In other words it is left to the discretion of the Universal House of Justice, and what a shame it would be given that science acknowledges that the body of the labourer wears out etc to deny them their pensions. It would be against their rights to enjoy the fruits of their labour in old age, and to not be literally worked to death. Even with workers of the mind, the mind loses it's capacity for memory etc beyond a certain age.

Thanks Daniel, I am aware of those passages and yes the future will tell if people want to retire and thus require legislation by the Universal House of Justice. Personally I do not want to retire completely, if I can, I will do something.

My main memory was of discussions we had on this many years ago. In those discussions many years ago, it was also asked if Abdul'baha retired. This passage was also considered, as it is just after the passage you have quoted;

2116 "Occupy Yourselves with that which Profiteth Yourselves and Others"

"It is enjoined upon every one of you to engage in some form of occupation, such as crafts, trades and the like, We have graciously exalted your engagement in such work to the rank of worship unto God, the True One. Ponder ye in your hearts the grace and the blessings of God and render thanks unto Him at eventide and at dawn. Waste not your time in idleness and sloth. Occupy yourselves with that which profiteth yourselves and others. Thus hath it been decreed in this Tablet from whose horizon the day-star of wisdom and utterance shineth resplendent." (Bahá'u'lláh: Tablets of Bahá'u'lláh revealed after the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, 1978 World Centre ed., p. 26) Compilations : Lights of Guidance Part 7

We considered, who would want to be deprived of this Worship?

I know quite a few Baha'i working well and in their 70's, but we may not all be able to do that. Most people that retire just get bored and it is a massive draw on the tax system. Maybe we can set an example for the future to consider!

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

What is Neohumanism????

The radical view of strict vegetarianism has many problems. You ignore natural evolution and the science of human natural nutrition. Humans are unable to make their own B12 without significant technology, and maintain a strict vegetarian diet. Humans evolved as opportunistic omnivores with varied diets across the planet. Considering the diverse climates that humans live and evolved in such as the arctic is unbelievably unrealistic that humans could live there on a strict vegetarian diet, Third your view represents a vary narrow cultural view of what is violence, and not the reality of the natural evolving humanity.

If it has many problems why do Baha'is say it will be the diet of the future? And, when is the future? The day after that statement was made or way, way in the future? 'Cause several people, including me, became vegetarians in the late 60's and early 70's.

As for violence, the Book of Revelation is full of violence. And Jesus is part of it. The Battle of Armageddon has the whole valley filled with blood. To the Baha'is is this only symbolic? And, if there is a necessary battle against an evil empire, and as the Baha'i Faith says, all the nations should rise up against it, would that count as violence by the Baha'is?

 

[Vinayaka]

If it has many problems why do Baha'is say it will be the diet of the future? And, when is the future? The day after that statement was made or way, way in the future? 'Cause several people, including me, became vegetarians in the late 60's and early 70's.

I wonder what's wrong with now. Now would be a great time to change, no?

 

[shunyadragon]

If it has many problems why do Baha'is say it will be the diet of the future? And, when is the future? The day after that statement was made or way, way in the future? 'Cause several people, including me, became vegetarians in the late 60's and early 70's.

As for violence, the Book of Revelation is full of violence. And Jesus is part of it. The Battle of Armageddon has the whole valley filled with blood. To the Baha'is is this only symbolic? And, if there is a necessary battle against an evil empire, and as the Baha'i Faith says, all the nations should rise up against it, would that count as violence by the Baha'is?

The future is not determined. In this case we may talking about hundreds if not thousands of years.

 

[Dawnofhope]

You know you've got them on the ropes when you search for one of your posts and cannot find it only to realize it has been completely deleted by the MODS without even warning you or sending a message. The post I put in this thread documenting the violent acts of Baha'is and their leaders has disappeared without a trace. It's only remnant is a partial quote by one the members here: Acts of violence in the name of the Baha’i Faith

[edit: apparently the posts were reported and deleted because I had too many posts targeting Baha'is]

I was enjoying responding to your posts. However your approach was clearly against the forum rules.

Religious Debates - Note About Forum Rules

I didn’t report you but obviously someone was concerned enough about your approach and the moderators agreed. Why not find a way of discussing the issues that interest you that doesn’t break the rules?

 

[arthra]

In terms of the question of violence in the name of the Baha'i Faith I would like to adda few items.

Baha'u'llah has forbidden Holy War... that is war in defense of religion such as the crusades or Jihad:

"In the Tablet of Bisharat, Bahá'u'lláh expresses the hope that
"weapons of war throughout the world may be converted into instruments of
reconstruction and that strife and conflict may be removed from the
midst of men".
"In another Tablet Bahá'u'lláh stresses the importance
of fellowship with the followers of all religions; He also
states that "the law of holy war hath been blotted out from the
Book".

~ Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 241

"A Bahá'í denies no religion; he accepts the Truth in all, and would die to uphold it. He loves all men as his brothers, of whatever class, of whatever race or nationality, of whatever creed or colour, whether good or bad, rich or poor, beautiful or hideous. He commits no violence; if he is struck he does not return the blow. He calls nothing bad, following the example of the Lord Bahá'u'lláh. As a safeguard against intemperance he does not drink wine or spirits. Bahá'u'lláh has said it is not good for a sane man to take that which will destroy his health and sense."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 56

"For in those days no one knew that the Manifestation of the Báb would culminate in the Manifestation of the Blessed Beauty and that the law of retaliation would be done away with, and the foundation-principle of the Law of God would be this,
that "It is better for you to be killed than to kill"; that discord and contention would cease, and the rule of war and butchery would fall away."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Memorials of the Faithful, p. 199

Baha'is in the United States are to apply for non-combatant service if drafted by a selective service system:

Bahá'ís and Military Service
by National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of the United States
published in Bahá'í News, 88
1965-06
The policies governing the relationship of American Bahá'ís to military service are currently being reviewed. Pending publication of a more definitive explanation, the friends will be guided by the Guardian's statement of principle and by certain repeated elaborations by the National Spiritual Assembly.
Shoghi Effendi's 1946 guiding words of principle are still in effect: " . . . the Bahá'ís should continue to apply . . . for exemption from any military duties that necessitate the taking of life. There is no justification for any change of attitude on our part at the present time."

It is obligatory, and not optional for all Bahá'ís in the United States to apply for non-combatant status when registering at the age of 18. By registering as a Bahá'í, there is opportunity for recognition of the Cause both at the Draft Board and among acquaintances. Instructions for youth may be obtained from the local or national assemblies. The Bahá'í statements on military service and on loyalty to government are supplied.

Since it is only through the Selective Service machinery of classification and induction that a noncombatant status can be assured, one who volunteers for service ordinarily forfeits his right to receive that status. Therefore, Bahá'ís should not voluntarily enlist in any branch of the Armed Forces which by definition is entirely a combatant Service.

Bahá'ís and Military Service

"Gracious God! This people need no weapons of destruction, inasmuch as they have girded themselves to reconstruct the world. Their hosts are the hosts of goodly deeds, and their arms the arms of upright conduct…."

– Baha’u’llah and the New Era, p. 170.

So the above seems to me to reflect accurately Baha'i views on the issue of violence.

 

[paarsurrey]

In terms of the question of violence in the name of the Baha'i Faith I would like to adda few items.

Baha'u'llah has forbidden Holy War... that is war in defense of religion such as the crusades or Jihad:

"In the Tablet of Bisharat, Bahá'u'lláh expresses the hope that
"weapons of war throughout the world may be converted into instruments of
reconstruction and that strife and conflict may be removed from the
midst of men".
"In another Tablet Bahá'u'lláh stresses the importance
of fellowship with the followers of all religions; He also
states that "the law of holy war hath been blotted out from the
Book".

~ Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 241

"A Bahá'í denies no religion; he accepts the Truth in all, and would die to uphold it. He loves all men as his brothers, of whatever class, of whatever race or nationality, of whatever creed or colour, whether good or bad, rich or poor, beautiful or hideous. He commits no violence; if he is struck he does not return the blow. He calls nothing bad, following the example of the Lord Bahá'u'lláh. As a safeguard against intemperance he does not drink wine or spirits. Bahá'u'lláh has said it is not good for a sane man to take that which will destroy his health and sense."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 56

"For in those days no one knew that the Manifestation of the Báb would culminate in the Manifestation of the Blessed Beauty and that the law of retaliation would be done away with, and the foundation-principle of the Law of God would be this,
that "It is better for you to be killed than to kill"; that discord and contention would cease, and the rule of war and butchery would fall away."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Memorials of the Faithful, p. 199

Baha'is in the United States are to apply for non-combatant service if drafted by a selective service system:

Bahá'ís and Military Service
by National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of the United States
published in Bahá'í News, 88
1965-06
The policies governing the relationship of American Bahá'ís to military service are currently being reviewed. Pending publication of a more definitive explanation, the friends will be guided by the Guardian's statement of principle and by certain repeated elaborations by the National Spiritual Assembly.
Shoghi Effendi's 1946 guiding words of principle are still in effect: " . . . the Bahá'ís should continue to apply . . . for exemption from any military duties that necessitate the taking of life. There is no justification for any change of attitude on our part at the present time."

It is obligatory, and not optional for all Bahá'ís in the United States to apply for non-combatant status when registering at the age of 18. By registering as a Bahá'í, there is opportunity for recognition of the Cause both at the Draft Board and among acquaintances. Instructions for youth may be obtained from the local or national assemblies. The Bahá'í statements on military service and on loyalty to government are supplied.

Since it is only through the Selective Service machinery of classification and induction that a noncombatant status can be assured, one who volunteers for service ordinarily forfeits his right to receive that status. Therefore, Bahá'ís should not voluntarily enlist in any branch of the Armed Forces which by definition is entirely a combatant Service.

Bahá'ís and Military Service

"Gracious God! This people need no weapons of destruction, inasmuch as they have girded themselves to reconstruct the world. Their hosts are the hosts of goodly deeds, and their arms the arms of upright conduct…."

– Baha’u’llah and the New Era, p. 170.

So the above seems to me to reflect accurately Baha'i views on the issue of violence.

"Baha'u'llah has forbidden Holy War... that is war in defense of religion such as the crusades or Jihad:

"In the Tablet of Bisharat, Bahá'u'lláh expresses the hope that
"weapons of war throughout the world may be converted into instruments of
reconstruction and that strife and conflict may be removed from the
midst of men".
"In another Tablet Bahá'u'lláh stresses the importance
of fellowship with the followers of all religions; He also
states that "the law of holy war hath been blotted out from the
Book".

~ Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 241" Unquote.

The above teaching , not to make a war to convert others to one's religion or to spread religion is peaceful.
Well, it is the same as Islam has.
Friend @arthra , I have two questions:

What is manifestation of G-d, while replying please quote from
"The Kitáb-i-Aqdas – The Most Holy Book" of Bahaullah?

Has one read Quran from cover to cover, please?

Please don't answer if it is personal/private matter.

Regards

 

[arthra]

paarsurrey wrote:

"The above teaching , not to make a war to convert others to one's religion or to spread religion is peaceful. Well, it is the same as Islam has."

My response:

Jihad (Struggle) or Holy War applies to defending the community of the faithful and was applied to the defense of Medina..

Read the summary in Wikipedia:

Jihad (English: /dʒɪˈhɑːd/; Arabic: جهاد‎ jihād [dʒɪˈhaːd]) is an Arabic word which literally means striving or struggling, especially with a praiseworthy aim.[1][2][3][4] It can have many shades of meaning in an Islamic context, such as struggle against one's evil inclinations, an exertion to convert unbelievers, or efforts toward the moral betterment of society,[1][2][5] though it is most frequently associated with war.[6] In classical Islamic law, the term often refers to armed struggle against unbelievers,[2][3] while modernist Islamic scholars generally equate military jihad with defensive warfare.[7][8]

Jihad - Wikipedia

Read the quotes I've cited above. It's not the same as Baha'i teaching. Baha'u'llah abrogated Holy War in this dispensation: "....the law of holy war hath been blotted out from the Book".

~ Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 241
Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 240-241


paarasurrey:

I have two questions: (1) What is manifestation of G-d, while replying please quote from
"The Kitáb-i-Aqdas – The Most Holy Book" of Bahaullah?

My reply:

The Kitab-i-Aqdas mostly deals with laws and ordinances and some abrogation of laws of previous dispensations such as "Holy War". But there is a note in the Kitab-i-Aqdas that refers to the Manifestation of God:

75. He Who is the Dawning-place of God’s Cause hath no partner in the Most Great Infallibility. ¶47
In the Tablet of Ishráqát, Bahá’u’lláh affirms that the Most Great Infallibility is confined to the Manifestations of God.

Chapter 45 in Some Answered Questions is devoted to an explanation by ‘Abdu’l‑Bahá of this verse of the Aqdas. In this chapter He stresses, among other things, the inseparability of essential “infallibility” from the Manifestations of God, and asserts that “whatever emanates from Them is identical with the truth, and conformable to reality,” that “They are not under the shadow of the former laws,” and “Whatever They say is the word of God, and whatever They perform is an upright action.”

paarasurrey asked:

(2) Has one read Quran from cover to cover, please? Please don't answer if it is personal/private matter.

My reply:

Yes I've read the Qur'an as the Baha'i Writings also cite various passages from the Qur'an.

 

[arthra]

The biggest problem as I see it is that Bahai leaders, when assembled together (or at least in a quorum of five?) would feel secure in the knowledge that Bahauallah had written that they are infallible, and that their decisions could not possibly be wrong, and that any delivery of force against any perceived criminal uprising or multitude could only be good and true, by the grace of their God.

Baha'i institutions are elected annually and their jurisdiction is based on the civil boundaries. Each elected Local Spiritual Assembly has a civil jurisdiction. A Local Spiritual Assembly is not "infallible". It's sole purpose is to serve the Baha'i community. To see that Feasts and Holy Days are available. The children in their area have Baha'i education and so on.

Our National Spiritual Assembly also has the jurisdiction of a Nation and you'll note in my post above the N.S.A. had comments about Baha'is serving in the military.

Every believer has the Right to appeal any decision by a Local Assembly and National Assembly. The Universal House of Justice which is elected every five years has a "conferred" infallibility:

"Let it not be imagined that the House of Justice will take any decision according to its own concepts and opinions. God forbid! The Supreme House of Justice will take decisions and establish laws through the inspiration and confirmation of the Holy Spirit, because it is in the safekeeping and under the shelter and protection of the Ancient Beauty . . . .36

The position of the Universal House of Justice on World Peace is well known.
Read:
The Promise of World Peace | What Bahá’ís Believe

 

[oldbadger]

Baha'i institutions are elected annually and their jurisdiction is based on the civil boundaries. Each elected Local Spiritual Assembly has a civil jurisdiction.

In a Bahai World, would these Spiritual Assemblies revert to their original title, 'Houses of Justice' and would they only be involved in civil matters?

Our National Spiritual Assembly also has the jurisdiction of a Nation and you'll note in my post above the N.S.A. had comments about Baha'is serving in the military.

In a Bahai World, would there be military-type forces policing all?

The Universal House of Justice which is elected every five years has a "conferred" infallibility:

Yes......... that's what we were saying.

The position of the Universal House of Justice on World Peace is well known.
Read:
The Promise of World Peace | What Bahá’ís Believe

But it makes war............. each estrangement, each aggressive claim etc is a form of conflict. Bahais argue and contend with each already, and in a Bahai World this would show itself in force.
Many political movements (and imo Bahai is a political movement, estranged from all others) have been spoken of, written as... peaceful, wonderful Worlds, and to describe Bahai today as peace full is not quite how many of us perceive its reality would be once developed into a movement of billions.

Please tell, how many crimes would attract the death penalty, and by what means would executions be carried out, in a Bahai World? Let us start there, then we could move on to Bahai World policing and the form that it would take.

Thankyou.

 

[oldbadger]

In terms of the question of violence in the name of the Baha'i Faith I would like to adda few items.

Baha'u'llah has forbidden Holy War... that is war in defense of religion such as the crusades or Jihad:

"In the Tablet of Bisharat, Bahá'u'lláh expresses the hope that
"weapons of war throughout the world may be converted into instruments of
reconstruction and that strife and conflict may be removed from the
midst of men".
"In another Tablet Bahá'u'lláh stresses the importance
of fellowship with the followers of all religions; He also
states that "the law of holy war hath been blotted out from the
Book".

~ Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 241

"A Bahá'í denies no religion; he accepts the Truth in all, and would die to uphold it. He loves all men as his brothers, of whatever class, of whatever race or nationality, of whatever creed or colour, whether good or bad, rich or poor, beautiful or hideous. He commits no violence; if he is struck he does not return the blow. He calls nothing bad, following the example of the Lord Bahá'u'lláh. As a safeguard against intemperance he does not drink wine or spirits. Bahá'u'lláh has said it is not good for a sane man to take that which will destroy his health and sense."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 56

"For in those days no one knew that the Manifestation of the Báb would culminate in the Manifestation of the Blessed Beauty and that the law of retaliation would be done away with, and the foundation-principle of the Law of God would be this,
that "It is better for you to be killed than to kill"; that discord and contention would cease, and the rule of war and butchery would fall away."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Memorials of the Faithful, p. 199

Baha'is in the United States are to apply for non-combatant service if drafted by a selective service system:

Bahá'ís and Military Service
by National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of the United States
published in Bahá'í News, 88
1965-06
The policies governing the relationship of American Bahá'ís to military service are currently being reviewed. Pending publication of a more definitive explanation, the friends will be guided by the Guardian's statement of principle and by certain repeated elaborations by the National Spiritual Assembly.
Shoghi Effendi's 1946 guiding words of principle are still in effect: " . . . the Bahá'ís should continue to apply . . . for exemption from any military duties that necessitate the taking of life. There is no justification for any change of attitude on our part at the present time."

It is obligatory, and not optional for all Bahá'ís in the United States to apply for non-combatant status when registering at the age of 18. By registering as a Bahá'í, there is opportunity for recognition of the Cause both at the Draft Board and among acquaintances. Instructions for youth may be obtained from the local or national assemblies. The Bahá'í statements on military service and on loyalty to government are supplied.

Since it is only through the Selective Service machinery of classification and induction that a noncombatant status can be assured, one who volunteers for service ordinarily forfeits his right to receive that status. Therefore, Bahá'ís should not voluntarily enlist in any branch of the Armed Forces which by definition is entirely a combatant Service.

Bahá'ís and Military Service

"Gracious God! This people need no weapons of destruction, inasmuch as they have girded themselves to reconstruct the world. Their hosts are the hosts of goodly deeds, and their arms the arms of upright conduct…."

– Baha’u’llah and the New Era, p. 170.

So the above seems to me to reflect accurately Baha'i views on the issue of violence.

Arthra......... although you did not write the above post to me, I would like to answer it.......

The above decisions and communications may well refer to 'Now', 'Today', most likely because military decisions will not have been made by Bahai, and since Bahai does not involve itself with decisions made by other groups, governments then presumably it won't want to support same. And so if faced by Worldwide bullies and aggressors, so often seen before, Bahai might prefer to advise or instruct its followers NOT to join in military service.

But it's 'Double-Think' if applied to a future World where a Bahai World government might exist over all because of its % of Bahais in the World's population. Then a World military force (Bahai), instructed by a World government (Bahai) would absolutely undertake to deliver force where necessary to Worldwide bullies and aggressive enemy forces!

Here is a precis of a Bahai presentation (Source marked **) which explains all this exactly. And so we need to recognise that Bahai would deliver force, its Religious Leaders have made that decision, instructing a Religious Military.

Quote:-
Our world has several powerful nation states that play the role of the bully in the international arena. They build nuclear arms................. They commit human rights atrocities .............. They colonize and assert territorial control over lands ................. But for some reason, the community of nations suffers from repeated paralysis in the face of such destructive behavior.

A world executive, backed by an international Force, will carry out the decisions arrived at, and apply the laws enacted by, this world legislature, and will safeguard the organic unity of the whole commonwealth. – Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha’u’llah, p. 203.
**
An International Executive and Standing Army

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Arthra......... although you did not write the above post to me, I would like to answer it.......

The above decisions and communications may well refer to 'Now', 'Today', most likely because military decisions will not have been made by Bahai, and since Bahai does not involve itself with decisions made by other groups, governments then presumably it won't want to support same. And so if faced by Worldwide bullies and aggressors, so often seen before, Bahai might prefer to advise or instruct its followers NOT to join in military service.

But it's 'Double-Think' if applied to a future World where a Bahai World government might exist over all because of its % of Bahais in the World's population. Then a World military force (Bahai), instructed by a World government (Bahai) would absolutely undertake to deliver force where necessary to Worldwide bullies and aggressive enemy forces!

Here is a precis of a Bahai presentation (Source marked **) which explains all this exactly. And so we need to recognise that Bahai would deliver force, its Religious Leaders have made that decision, instructing a Religious Military.

Quote:-
Our world has several powerful nation states that play the role of the bully in the international arena. They build nuclear arms................. They commit human rights atrocities .............. They colonize and assert territorial control over lands ................. But for some reason, the community of nations suffers from repeated paralysis in the face of such destructive behavior.

A world executive, backed by an international Force, will carry out the decisions arrived at, and apply the laws enacted by, this world legislature, and will safeguard the organic unity of the whole commonwealth. – Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha’u’llah, p. 203.
**
An International Executive and Standing Army

What is not being considered, is if or when the percentage of Baha'i's reaches this stage, then mankind would have already chastised itself to the a level of depravity, that no one in the future will ever want to repeat this age again.

The New World order will be built out of the ruins that this day has produced. Look at the news and places where people used to live in Syria and this is but one place on this planet. Look at the Natural phenomenon increasing daily, it all ties into the sickness we as humanity have brought upon ourselves.

Baha'u'llah has said learn war no more.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

The above decisions and communications may well refer to 'Now', 'Today', most likely because military decisions will not have been made by Bahai, and since Bahai does not involve itself with decisions made by other groups, governments then presumably it won't want to support same. And so if faced by Worldwide bullies and aggressors, so often seen before, Bahai might prefer to advise or instruct its followers NOT to join in military service.

OB, I really don't think we have anything to worry about, given the slowing of growth, if not decline. Small dog, big bark.