after five years, i left islam. here's one huge contradiction in the qur`an

[uncung]

The Qur’an 18:83-86 doesn't mention the setting place of the sun at all.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

one, yesterday i discovered that in the qur`an, chapter 11 verse 1 states that the verses are perfected and explained in detail, but all of chapter 111 is clearly about muhammad wanting revenge on his uncle and her wife. the entire message of the qur`an would be benefited without that chapter. how are those perfected verses?

two, even if you believe it's supposed to be hard to understand (which makes no sense because that can cause huge amounts of misinterpretation and chaos), that is still not explanation in detail, therefore it also makes the qur`an imperfect and completely contradicts chapter 11 verse 1.

three, it's as if people thought muhammad's complaints about family were teachings and added it into the qur`an. also, these are things that people believed muhammad said sorted out by people other than muhammad. if this chapter is in there, that further destroys its credibility.

four (as asked on page 6), why are the famous mysterious letters (i.e. alif lam ra) added into the qur`an with no explanation for them? and if they weren't in the actual qur`an, then a huge part of the world has been misguided by this. this contradicts chapter 11 verse 1

there are so many verses in the qur`an that are extremely hard to understand. and if you say it wasn't talking about every verse, then that would make chapter 11 verse 1 contradict even itself.

i do still however follow God. just with no religion.

First God bless you. I am a Christian, I call myself a primitive Christian because I like the old ways and I learn about God/jesus from the earliest Christians sects/bands. I am no expert or master of the Koran/Qur`an. However maybe The Koran is like our bible, written in different literary styles. There are many in the old and new testament like parable or in a difficult to understand Hebrew dialect. There are many difficulties in reading the scriptural material, but hang in there and keep searching! After atheism I tried many major and a few minor religions when one caught my fancy. I went to night school while I traveled and worked as a journeyman ironworker too. It all helped me find God~

 

[Crypto2015]

It doesnt say third and the fourth heavens. Good god where do you get this from?



Why do you quote some other story when discussing the Quran?

Setting place of the sun is the "Maghrib", the Arabic word for east. One word.
Read a few verses after this. He also goes to the west and finds a people.

This is about a people near a body of water that he found. In the east. Dont interpret it through the hadith you quoted, because that hadith is written centuries later, nothing to do with the Quran.

It says clearly that it sets in water. This alone should be enough for you to throw your Qu'ran away.

 

[Crypto2015]

I asked, is that important to know the meaning of Alif lam miin?
How important is it? Is that important to save you from hell? to guide you to the salvation?

If you believe in the Qu'ran you'll go straight to hell.

 

[Crypto2015]

weird, where is the son portion in your calculation like the verse mentions?

Maybe there was no son in that example. Some people don'y have sons.

 

[Rival]

The Qur’an 18:83-86 doesn't mention the setting place of the sun at all.

What does it say? Did we get the wrong verse? Even your prophet agrees that the sun sets in a muddy spring.

 

[uncung]

Maybe there was no son in that example. Some people don'y have sons.

your assertion refered to the verse where the husband leaves a son.

 

[uncung]

What does it say? Did we get the wrong verse? Even your prophet agrees that the sun sets in a muddy spring.

Where the sun sets supposedly?
Recheck again the verse.

 

[uncung]

If you believe in the Qu'ran you'll go straight to hell.

Why would be like that? Elaborate it.

 

[Crypto2015]

Why would be like that? Elaborate it.

Muhammad is a false prophet. He contradicted all of the Biblical prophets. He even prophesied in the name of Satan in the episode of the Satanic Verses.

 

[Rival]

Where the sun sets supposedly?
Recheck again the verse.

In the west in a pool of murky water.

You're never going to believe it though because you're a Muslim, your book is perfect in your eyes and even when there are scientific errors in it you won't see it because of your Islamic blinkers. This is what Islam does: it brainwashes it's adherents so they cannot be debated with.

You know EXACTLY what the verse says and you are just being dishonest.

 

[Rival]

Here, here's a video for the sunset problem

 

[uncung]

It says clearly that it sets in water. This alone should be enough for you to throw your Qu'ran away.

It doesn't.
حَتَّىٰٓ إِذَا بَلَغَ مَغۡرِبَ ٱلشَّمۡسِ وَجَدَهَا تَغۡرُبُ فِى عَيۡنٍ حَمِئَةٍ۬ (read from here)
(Quran 18 86)
The rough translation:
Till when he reached the مَغۡرِبَ ٱلشَّمۡسِ, he found (his vision) it set in a muddy spring,..
مَغۡرِبَ ٱلشَّمۡسِ = magriba syamsa
magrib = the time of the sunset in the west.

In this verse it implies Dzul Qarnain went to the west and he reached the place at the magrib (sun set) time.

 

[uncung]

Here, here's a video for the sunset problem

Take alook my answer above.

 

[uncung]

Muhammad is a false prophet. He contradicted all of the Biblical prophets. He even prophesied in the name of Satan in the episode of the Satanic Verses.

Does your bible characterize the false prophet criteria? What does your Bible say about Paul oops I mean Prophet Muhammad?

 

[YmirGF]

The Qur’an 18:83-86 doesn't mention the setting place of the sun at all.

Um.... oddly, many English translators do not agree with your assertion.

Muhammad Asad
And he marched westwards] till, when he came to the setting of the sun, it appeared to him that it was setting in a dark, turbid sea; and nearby he found a people [given to every kind of wrongdoing]. We said: "O thou Two-Horned One! Thou mayest either cause [them] to suffer or treat them with kindness!"

M. M. Pickthall Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.

Shakir Until when he reached the place where the sun set, he found it going down into a black sea, and found by it a people. We said: O Zulqarnain! either give them a chastisement or do them a benefit

Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985) Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."

Yusuf Ali (Orig. 1938) Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."

Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar until when he reached the setting of the sun. He found it beginning to set in a spring of muddy water. And he found near it a folk. We said: O Dhu-l Qarnayn! Either thou wilt punish them or thou wilt take them to thyself with goodness.

Wahiduddin Khan until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of murky water and near it he found some people. We said, Dhul-Qarnayn! You can either punish them or else you can treat them with gentleness.

T.B.Irving until when he reached the place where the sun sets, he found it setting in a mucky spring alongside which he (also) found some people. We said: "Double Horn either you will punish [them] or else act kindly towards them."

Safi Kaskas until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it [as if] setting in a dark, muddy spring, and nearby he found some people. We said, "O Zul-Qarnayn, either cause [them] to suffer or treat them with kindness."

[Al-Muntakhab] He took the lead in an expedition toward he west until he reached a body of water -said to be the Atlantic Ocean, or more likely a mirky land abounding in swamps– where -he thought when viewing the horizon- the sun sets and where he found a -disorderly and unruly- people over whom We gave him authority. We left to him the manner of dealing with them. Either you punish them, We said or show them kindness;

[The Monotheist Group] (2011 Edition) Until he reached the setting of the sun, and he found it setting at a boiling lake, and he found near it a people. We said: "O Two Eras, either you are to punish, or you are to do them good."

Abdel Haleem then, when he came to the setting of the sun, he found it [seemed to be] setting into a muddy spring. Nearby he found some people and We said, ‘Dhu ’l-Qarnayn, you may choose [which of them] to punish or show kindness to.’

Abdul Majid Daryabadi Until when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he perceived it setting in a miry spring, and he found beside it a nation. We said: Zul Qarnian! either chastise them or take in respect of them the way of kindness.


Many other translations say variations of the same thing... <Source>

 

[Rival]

Take alook my answer above.

Watch the video.

 

[uncung]

Um.... oddly, many English translators do not agree with your assertion.

Muhammad Asad
And he marched westwards] till, when he came to the setting of the sun, it appeared to him that it was setting in a dark, turbid sea; and nearby he found a people [given to every kind of wrongdoing]. We said: "O thou Two-Horned One! Thou mayest either cause [them] to suffer or treat them with kindness!"

M. M. Pickthall Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.

Shakir Until when he reached the place where the sun set, he found it going down into a black sea, and found by it a people. We said: O Zulqarnain! either give them a chastisement or do them a benefit

Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985) Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."

Yusuf Ali (Orig. 1938) Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."

Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar until when he reached the setting of the sun. He found it beginning to set in a spring of muddy water. And he found near it a folk. We said: O Dhu-l Qarnayn! Either thou wilt punish them or thou wilt take them to thyself with goodness.

Wahiduddin Khan until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of murky water and near it he found some people. We said, Dhul-Qarnayn! You can either punish them or else you can treat them with gentleness.

T.B.Irving until when he reached the place where the sun sets, he found it setting in a mucky spring alongside which he (also) found some people. We said: "Double Horn either you will punish [them] or else act kindly towards them."

Safi Kaskas until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it [as if] setting in a dark, muddy spring, and nearby he found some people. We said, "O Zul-Qarnayn, either cause [them] to suffer or treat them with kindness."

[Al-Muntakhab] He took the lead in an expedition toward he west until he reached a body of water -said to be the Atlantic Ocean, or more likely a mirky land abounding in swamps– where -he thought when viewing the horizon- the sun sets and where he found a -disorderly and unruly- people over whom We gave him authority. We left to him the manner of dealing with them. Either you punish them, We said or show them kindness;

[The Monotheist Group] (2011 Edition) Until he reached the setting of the sun, and he found it setting at a boiling lake, and he found near it a people. We said: "O Two Eras, either you are to punish, or you are to do them good."

Abdel Haleem then, when he came to the setting of the sun, he found it [seemed to be] setting into a muddy spring. Nearby he found some people and We said, ‘Dhu ’l-Qarnayn, you may choose [which of them] to punish or show kindness to.’

Abdul Majid Daryabadi Until when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he perceived it setting in a miry spring, and he found beside it a nation. We said: Zul Qarnian! either chastise them or take in respect of them the way of kindness.


Many other translations say variations of the same thing... <Source>

Yes he found it. Is it wrong?

 

[Augustus]

I just did a quick search and came up with this.

MEANING OF ALIF LAAM MEEM

and no, it's not the most persuasive argument I've ever read.

That's a classic example of how the medieval mufassir had absolutely no idea how to interpret certain passages of the Quran.

You often get 5-10 unrelated, contrasting and often mutually exclusive explanations that clearly demonstrate they were pretty much guessing.

Yet we are expected to believe that hadith and sirah were preserved due to flawless 'oral history' spanning centuries.

hmmm...

 

[YmirGF]

Yes he found it. Is it wrong?

In that there is no swamp hot boiling lake/sea/water/spring/babbling brook wherein the sun, a star, sets on the entire planet, then yes, it is quite wrong.

As the video given by @Rival says, Allah could have easily have said, at sunset or at sundown and no one would have misunderstood what he was saying. But, for some reason, an all-knowing being couldn't help himself and made a literary blunder. Epic fail. Even when read as being metaphorical it is pretty sloppy and kids in grade school could probably do better.