after five years, i left islam. here's one huge contradiction in the qur`an

[anonymous9887]

Sorry I didn't abide by your rules your highness.

Let me tell you something mate. Theodicy. God and suffering. Both can together be probably the most diversely answered, most difficult to answer, the most disputed, contradicted and unanswered subjects in Theology and religion. If this can be answered in a few words or nutshell post, that's not an answer, that's an excuse.

I doubt with this kind of answers you see all over we are not ready to face reality. That is why there are brash and hurried replies that dont seem to make sense. Sometimes we get angrier than we normally will with other subjects.

If you expect me to answer in a nutshell, sorry mate. No way. I gave you a long and exploratory answer for you to figure out the end but you never read through, you kept asking me for an answer in a nutshell or with a few sentences, which is not gonna happen.

But when you make claims you have to substantiate it. And when you make claims like you did, you will see responses because you dont use the context of the bible, or any other scripture. The bible does not have the concept of inherited sin. Its a concept. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father.

And you call someone elses God as a cruel God when in your bible God commands genocide. Murder of all, men, women, children and animals. Its a direct command of God. There can be no reason to kill children, this is while God says in Ezekiel "The son shall not bear the guilt of the father".

Iqra.

let me put it in term you will understand.
who is responsible if I go to jenna or not? god makes the choice based on my own actions.

 

[firedragon]

I think the replies I gave you are very well answered. I think the bible is very explicit on theodicy, and I think people complicate it. Simple what is sura 3:6 talking about? I gave you a reply, you just for reasons unspecified do not accept my response, im not even sure you read it.

Your reply is YOUR reply which doesnt make sense. Its not a biblical reply.

 

[firedragon]

let me put it in term you will understand.
who is responsible if I go to jenna or not? god makes the choice based on my own actions.

Then why do you quote inherited sin?

 

[anonymous9887]

Your reply is YOUR reply which doesnt make sense. Its not a biblical reply.

point out which point and I can show you throughout scripture. without pauls writings I can show you the concept of a resurrection and how Abraham is considered living in gods eyes. this concept is easy but you don't want to set aside your position for just a second and see my point.

 

[anonymous9887]

How do you distinguish between Israelites and Amelakites. By saying this you say the Israelis were killed like this? Still, why the children? Your explanation for murder of children for their fathers sins is simply absurd. And this while God says "The son shall not bear the guilt of the father". Are you saying God is a hypocrite? Its the same book mate.

How about the Benjamites? Do you consider them Israelites as well? How about Jabesh Gilead? The people were killed, all men and women except for virgins. Why? Because they didnt attend the assembly. Well, that was all an excuse. The 400 virgins were brought to be given to the Benjamites. For what? To comb their hair? Oh, they should have been grateful for sparing their life, they were only deprived of their family, kidnapped and given to be wives. Given, not allowed. Now what is this about a cruel God you said?

again you can keep on jumping around that scripture. we are each responsible for our own actions when it comes to the next life.
who made the choice to keep the virgins, man or god?

 

[anonymous9887]

Then why do you quote inherited sin?

the fact is you do not understand my position what so ever so there is no point in reason with someone who does not even want to reason what my position is.

 

[anonymous9887]

THen why did you justify killing of children?
What else is inherited sin?

This is the language of the bible. You should understand it more. No one is to suffer because of another persons sin. Read the context of the verse "The son shall not bear the guilt of the father". Dont just answer to that sentence as if you are blind to the rest. Understand what it says.

Here you go again.

The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them. But if the wicked turn away from all the sins they have committed and keep all my decrees and do what is just and right, they will surely live; they will not die.

None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. Do I take any pleasure in
the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

“But if the righteous turn from their righteousness and commit sin and do the same detestable things the wicked do, will they live? None of the righteous things they have done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.

again foreknowledge had to be in the picture in one way or another.

so what if you had seen all at the same time hitler, Osama bin laden, saddam, and many other terrible men as infants, and you knew ahead of time the damage they would cause, would you kill them or not? you knew millions of lives were gonna be at stake.

 

[firedragon]

the fact is you do not understand my position what so ever so there is no point in reason with someone who does not even want to reason what my position is.

Alright. Please tell me which is the bibles position on the subject of Theodicy and suffering.

1. Suffering is caused by God due to sin or/and punishment.
2. Suffering is a test.
3. Siuffering is caused by Evil. The devil or/and evil forces.

Which one? Or is it all 3 of them.

 

[firedragon]

again foreknowledge had to be in the picture in one way or another.

so what if you had seen all at the same time hitler, Osama bin laden, saddam, and many other terrible men as infants, and you knew ahead of time the damage they would cause, would you kill them or not? you knew millions of lives were gonna be at stake.

Thats not the Issue. In the bible God commands murder of such nature.

Here you go again.

Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the LORD sent to anoint you king over his peo-ple Israel; so listen now to the message from the LORD.
This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt.

• Now go, attack the Amalekites
  
• and totally destroy all that belongs to them.
  
• Do not spare them;
  
• put to death men and women,
  
• children and infants,
  
• cattle and sheep,
  
• camels and donkeys.’

1 Samuel 15

 

[firedragon]

again you can keep on jumping around that scripture. we are each responsible for our own actions when it comes to the next life.
who made the choice to keep the virgins, man or god?

Okay. Good argument.

Did God tell them it was wrong? God punished the Jabesh Gilead people for not coming for a meeting with murder and kidnap of young girls. Why did he not punish those who did the kidnap of Virgins and murdered men and women maliciously leaving the virgins for trade? This is worse than sex trafficking, but not attending an assembly is punishable with murder, murder, kidnap and sex trafficking is okay?

 

[anonymous9887]

Thats not the Issue. In the bible God commands murder of such nature.

Here you go again.

Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the LORD sent to anoint you king over his peo-ple Israel; so listen now to the message from the LORD.
This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt.

• Now go, attack the Amalekites
  
• and totally destroy all that belongs to them.
  
• Do not spare them;
  
• put to death men and women,
  
• children and infants,
  
• cattle and sheep,
  
• camels and donkeys.’

1 Samuel 15

yes god used the Israelites to pronounce his judgment.
that's the problem you want to make the god of the bible a monster as if he didn't think things through. as if he had no foreknowledge. this was a judgment from god, if god explains his procedure in the future what makes the past one different? god doesn't change he had reasons why he did what he did as I provided.

god commanded it for his own reasons which he reveals through out his word. Israel was Just an instrument.

 

[firedragon]

yes god used the Israelites to pronounce his judgment.
that's the problem you want to make the god of the bible a monster as if he didn't think things through. as if he had no foreknowledge. this was a judgment from god, if god explains his procedure in the future what makes the past one different? god doesn't change he had reasons why he did what he did as I provided.

god commanded it for his own reasons which he reveals through out his word. Israel was Just an instrument.

Murders children. Innocent children.

I dont intend to portray your God as a monster my friend, it was you who said to someone his God is a cruel God. Why do you look at the thimble in his eye while there is a plank in yours?

 

[anonymous9887]

Okay. Good argument.

Did God tell them it was wrong? God punished the Jabesh Gilead people for not coming for a meeting with murder and kidnap of young girls. Why did he not punish those who did the kidnap of Virgins and murdered men and women maliciously leaving the virgins for trade? This is worse than sex trafficking, but not attending an assembly is punishable with murder, murder, kidnap and sex trafficking is okay?

who was in charge of executing Justice for them? The Israelites has a protocol they had to follow. Not coming before the assembly was as if coming before god who is worthy of all praise. And again I am 100% sure that god will bring that up when those men are judged before god.

 

[anonymous9887]

Murders children. Innocent children.

I dont intend to portray your God as a monster my friend, it was you who said to someone his God is a cruel God. Why do you look at the thimble in his eye while there is a plank in yours?

Yes because I said it with good reason.

1. because of the way him and a few others explained sura 3:6
2. You just don't want to accept my explanation. you are looking at the god from Just the incidents that occurred.I am examining the law and the thought process of why such a thing would occur. But god pronounced a judgment, and god exercised foreknowledge in one way or another, and called many nations for accountability of their sins.
in the book of Jonah god forgave a whole city, so why not in that instance, because the people must have been really bad and remained unrepentant, but ninevah repented.

 

[anonymous9887]

Murders children. Innocent children.

I dont intend to portray your God as a monster my friend, it was you who said to someone his God is a cruel God. Why do you look at the thimble in his eye while there is a plank in yours?

the fact is you don't have the foreknowledge god does.

Isaiah 55:9 Just as the heavens are higher than the earth so my thoughts are higher then your thoughts

 

[anonymous9887]

Alright. Please tell me which is the bibles position on the subject of Theodicy and suffering.

1. Suffering is caused by God due to sin or/and punishment.
2. Suffering is a test.
3. Siuffering is caused by Evil. The devil or/and evil forces.

Which one? Or is it all 3 of them.

1. suffering is not caused by god. only when it is a judgment does he cause suffering. which we are waiting for Christ coming
2. suffering is a test by Satan
3. we have choices to make, but satan and his demons rule the world and influence our thoughts.

 

[firedragon]

2. You just don't want to accept my explanation. you are looking at the god from Just the incidents that occurred.I am examining the law and the thought process of why such a thing would occur.

But dont you have morals? Dont you see that there can never be any reason for killing little children and animals? If you cant see that, I have nothing to say. Let me tell you something, I am a Muslim. I am a theist. This is exactly why I respect Atheists because they have either dropped theology or is upholding atheism because of their morals and this explanation will never sit with them.

We are born with morals. Just because we believe in a God that doesnt mean we have to be stupidly immoral enough to justify our scripture with such an immoral statement. This is exactly what ISIS is doing.

 

[firedragon]

1. suffering is not caused by god.

You contradict the bible. I posted this already. Nevertheless, I am getting used to this.

This is GOD creating suffering. Thus, you contradict the bible.
God creates trial after trial. The reason? Your sin, not inherited sin.

“I gave you empty stomachs in every city and lack of bread in every town, yet you have not returned to me,” declares the LORD.
“I also withheld rain from you when the harvest was still three months away. I sent rain on one town, but withheld it from another. One field had rain; another had none and dried up. People staggered from town to town for water but did not get enough to drink, yet you have not returned to me,” declares the LoRD.
“Many times I struck your gardens and vineyards, destroying them with blight and mildew. Locusts devoured your fig and olive trees, yet you have not returned to me,” declares the LORD. “I sent plagues among you as I did to Egypt. I killed your young men with the sword,
along with your captured horses. I filled your nostrils with the stench of your camps, yet you have not returned to me,” declares the L
ORD.
“I overthrew some of you as I overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. You were like a burning stick snatched from the fire, yet you have not returned to me,” declares the LORD. “Therefore this is what I will do to you, Israel, and because I will do this to you, Israel,
prepare to meet your God.” He who forms the mountains, who creates the wind, and who reveals his thoughts to mortals, who turns dawn to darkness, and treads on the heights of the earth—the LORD God Almighty is his name.

Amos Chapter 4

2. suffering is a test by Satan

You contradict the bible.

Suffering is a test by God

Read Amos Chapter 4.

3. we have choices to make, but satan and his demons rule the world and influence our thoughts.

The question was about suffering. Not about our evil. SUFFERING.

1. Suffering is caused by God due to sin or/and punishment.
2. Suffering is a test.
3. Siuffering is caused by Evil. The devil or/and evil forces.

Which one? Or is it all 3 of them.

 

[anonymous9887]

no I am not. I am telling you that was a Judgment god did when he was intimately involved in human affairs. we are now waiting for Christ to come and do the judging.
little children that would have grown to be evil or innocent children that will get a resurrection because as I provided a response for the possible scenarios.

Sura 3:6 cannot be reconciled any other way as far as I have heard from many people and scholars.

god will judge the world and people will not accept god so if they are judged is god right or wrong?

 

[anonymous9887]

You contradict the bible. I posted this already. Nevertheless, I am getting used to this.

This is GOD creating suffering. Thus, you contradict the bible.
God creates trial after trial. The reason? Your sin, not inherited sin.

“I gave you empty stomachs in every city and lack of bread in every town, yet you have not returned to me,” declares the LORD.
“I also withheld rain from you when the harvest was still three months away. I sent rain on one town, but withheld it from another. One field had rain; another had none and dried up. People staggered from town to town for water but did not get enough to drink, yet you have not returned to me,” declares the LoRD.
“Many times I struck your gardens and vineyards, destroying them with blight and mildew. Locusts devoured your fig and olive trees, yet you have not returned to me,” declares the LORD. “I sent plagues among you as I did to Egypt. I killed your young men with the sword,
along with your captured horses. I filled your nostrils with the stench of your camps, yet you have not returned to me,” declares the L
ORD.
“I overthrew some of you as I overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. You were like a burning stick snatched from the fire, yet you have not returned to me,” declares the LORD. “Therefore this is what I will do to you, Israel, and because I will do this to you, Israel,
prepare to meet your God.” He who forms the mountains, who creates the wind, and who reveals his thoughts to mortals, who turns dawn to darkness, and treads on the heights of the earth—the LORD God Almighty is his name.

Amos Chapter 4



You contradict the bible.

Suffering is a test by God

Read Amos Chapter 4.



The question was about suffering. Not about our evil. SUFFERING.

1. Suffering is caused by God due to sin or/and punishment.
2. Suffering is a test.
3. Siuffering is caused by Evil. The devil or/and evil forces.

Which one? Or is it all 3 of them.

god made everything good according to the bible.

again you completely ignored my statement.
In amos who is god talking to?
did the Israelites not agree to a blessing and a curse in front of them?
show me god is responsible for suffering in the entire new testaent