An Issue Of Valuing The Lives Of Others

[Father Heathen]

Where is the reporting on the civilian casualties of the Ukrainian-Russian war? Is "Palestinian" blood redder than Ukrainian?

I've made multiple threads/posts about Russia's war crimes committed against Ukrainian civilians. The media has covered it extensively as well, except not so much by RW media which tends to be pro Putin.

 

[Revoltingest]

Where is the reporting on the civilian casualties of the Ukrainian-Russian war? Is "Palestinian" blood redder than Ukrainian?

Your whataboutism reminds me of Republican hypocrisy.
They oppose helping Ukraine repel the existential threat
of an invading Russia. It's too costly, they say.
An violently expanding Russian empire is OK, they believe.
But they leap to send more money & military aid to Israel,
which is used to kill thousands upon thousands of innocent
Palestinians in pursuit of exterminating the non-existential
threat posed by Hamas.
Why?
Republican values are based less on humanity, & more
on religious alliances.

BTW, Democrats aren't much better. They're OK with
Israel's mass murder & oppression of Palestinians.

 

[Revoltingest]

I've made multiple threads/posts about Russia's war crimes committed against Ukrainian civilians. The media has covered it extensively as well, except not so much by RW media which tends to be pro Putin.

But every time you address the plight of Palestinians,
you're not addressing every other problem in the world.
You must cover them all in ever single post, otherwise
you're biased.
Of course, this standard applies only if advocating
for Palestinians.

 

[Father Heathen]

But every time you address the plight of Palestinians,
you're not addressing every other problem in the world.
You must cover them all in ever single post, otherwise
you're biased.
Of course, this standard applies only if advocating
for Palestinians.

I have been saying that deliberately targeting and killing civilians is bad regardless of who does it, which should cover all conflicts and all sides involved, past and present. People treat this conflict like it were two rival teams playing sport, or some Saturday morning cartoon where the valiant heroes vanquish the villains who are evil simply for evil's sake. Both sides have been staining their hands with innocent blood for decades. When you kill someone's children, they're not going to forgive or forget, so this conflict will be perpetuated indefinitely.

 

[sun rise]

deliberately targeting and killing civilians is bad regardless of who does it,

We know that Hamas did just that. Where is the proof that Israel DELIBERATELY targeted civilians?

 

[Father Heathen]

We know that Hamas did just that. Where is the proof that Israel DELIBERATELY targeted civilians?

Israeli attacks wipe out entire families in Gaza

Amnesty International has documented damning evidence of war crimes.

www.amnesty.org

 

[Revoltingest]

We know that Hamas did just that. Where is the proof that Israel DELIBERATELY targeted civilians?

Pushing the buttons that send the missiles
that kill the babies....& everyone else in the
blast radius or crushed by the rubble.
Think those buttons pushed themselves?

 

[Shaul]

I've made multiple threads/posts about Russia's war crimes committed against Ukrainian civilians. The media has covered it extensively as well, except not so much by RW media which tends to be pro Putin.

And not done it the same way as you and others have treated Israel. No one, including you, has suggested that the Ukrainians should not respond with force to Russian aggression. But there are those that want Israel to not respond and have a "cease fire" after Hamas has attacked Israel, without provocation nor warning, but before Israel responds. Nor have they, nor you, suggested that the Ukrainians must give detailed warnings about upcoming actions. Yet there are people who want to have Israel do just that before responding to the Hamas terror attacks. Even though such a notice would telegraph operations and help Hamas and other Jews haters. Because there are many that hold Israel to a different standard then they hold other countries to. Because some people hate Jews.

 

[Kenny]

Where is the reporting on the civilian casualties of the Ukrainian-Russian war? Is "Palestinian" blood redder than Ukrainian?

Not all…..

Ukraine civilian war casualties 2022-2024 | Statista

As of February 15, 2024, 10,582 civilian deaths in Ukraine were reported by the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) due to the Russian invasion that started on February 24, 2022.

www.statista.com

Where is the reporting on the Christian casualties in the war in Sudan? Is “Ukrainian” blood redder than those in Sudan?

 

[Kenny]

Pushing the buttons that send the missiles
that kill the babies....& everyone else in the
blast radius or crushed by the rubble.
Think those buttons pushed themselves?

You can correct me if I am wrong, but when Israel “presses the button”, isn’t it because has missiles being launched in that area?

If you were in that area where the missiles are being launched by people of your own nation next to your home… and you knew that the Israilis are going to respond with pinpoint accuracy to the very location where your people are launching the missiles...

Would you:

1) Leave the area with your family;
2) Attack your own people for putting at risk your family as they target civilians;
3) Keep your family there are help your people target civilians;
4) Send your family away and help your people target civilians?

 

[Shaul]

Not all…..

Ukraine civilian war casualties 2022-2024 | Statista

As of February 15, 2024, 10,582 civilian deaths in Ukraine were reported by the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) due to the Russian invasion that started on February 24, 2022.

www.statista.com

Where is the reporting on the Christian casualties in the war in Sudan? Is “Ukrainian” blood redder than those in Sudan?

The tracking of casualties isn't the way the Israel-Hamas conflict is being held to a double standard. It is the wide spread holding of the State of Israel to a different standard of how they are expected to act that is the double standard. The Christian fighters in the South Sudan war and theThe Ukrainian forces were both held to the same standard, to wit nobody suggested they didn't have the right to use force against an attacker. In that regard they were treated the same. In contrast there is a widespread movement to deny the State of Israel the same right to determine for itself whether it can use force in response to an armed attack. There are many protests around the world against the State of Israel using force, even though it has the right to do so. There were never any such protests against either the Ukraine nor the South Sudanese from exercising their rights to use force. There is a double standard.

 

[Sargonski]

Absolutely Israel's actions are a part of the context. But - as one example - the claim that Palestinians are noncombatants seems like a stretch to me, they voted for Hamas to lead them and Hamas was very clear on its agenda.

Let me ask you this - why hasn't the world gone after Hamas the way they went after ISIS? That question is part of the context.

"Went after ISIS" that is humorous.

In the case of the Islamic State -- which was composed of ISIS and Al Qaeda - we armed, supplied and supported them against Assad. So are you suggesting we arm the Palestinians which sophisticated US military equipment like we did Al Qaeda ?

We were not going after ISIS in Syria .. they were our proxies like the Ukrainians are our proxies against Russia.. It was Russia Iran and Syria that went after and defeated ISIS .. you got your history lessons mixed up somewhere listening to the likes of Rachel Madow's war commentary.. that and "The Most Trusted Source in News" .. which was all a bunch of lies mate.

None of the thousands of babies getting slaughter voted for Hamas .. but it would not matter if they had .. collective punishment is not justified .. and quite illegal just the same. We could say exactly the same about the Israeli's .. the elected Bibi .. a massive terrorist .. way worse than Hamas has ever been .. thus Should the world "go after Israel the way they went after ISIS" ? Is that the part of the context you were referring to ?

 

[Kenny]

The tracking of casualties isn't the way the Israel-Hamas conflict is being held to a double standard. It is the wide spread holding of the State of Israel to a different standard of how they are expected to act that is the double standard. The Christian fighters in the South Sudan war and theThe Ukrainian forces were both held to the same standard, to wit nobody suggested they didn't have the right to use force against an attacker. In that regard they were treated the same. In contrast there is a widespread movement to deny the State of Israel the same right to determine for itself whether it can use force in response to an armed attack. There are many protests around the world against the State of Israel using force, even though it has the right to do so. There were never any such protests against either the Ukraine nor the South Sudanese from exercising their rights to use force. There is a double standard.

Very well said! I misunderstood your point!

 

[sun rise]

Not all…..

Ukraine civilian war casualties 2022-2024 | Statista

As of February 15, 2024, 10,582 civilian deaths in Ukraine were reported by the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) due to the Russian invasion that started on February 24, 2022.

www.statista.com

Where is the reporting on the Christian casualties in the war in Sudan? Is “Ukrainian” blood redder than those in Sudan?

I posted a Salon article about how the death toll in the middle east is MUCH less than in other conflicts.

 

[Father Heathen]

And not done it the same way as you and others have treated Israel. No one, including you, has suggested that the Ukrainians should not respond with force to Russian aggression.

I never said that Israel shouldn't take action to protect itself from terrorism, but that shouldn't require the intentional killing of innocent kids.

But there are those that want Israel to not respond and have a "cease fire" after Hamas has attacked Israel, without provocation nor warning, but before Israel responds. Nor have they, nor you, suggested that the Ukrainians must give detailed warnings about upcoming actions.

Ukrainians aren't targeting civilians, though. They're fighting on their own soil, defending it from invaders and occupiers.

Yet there are people who want to have Israel do just that before responding to the Hamas terror attacks. Even though such a notice would telegraph operations and help Hamas and other Jews haters. Because there are many that hold Israel to a different standard then they hold other countries to. Because some people hate Jews.

Ever heard the parable about the boy who cried wolf?

 

[Revoltingest]

You can correct me if I am wrong, but when Israel “presses the button”, isn’t it because has missiles being launched in that area?

Is that a rhetorical question.
I don't know.
Do you?

If you were in that area where the missiles are being launched by people of your own nation next to your home… and you knew that the Israilis are going to respond with pinpoint accuracy to the very location where your people are launching the missiles...

The accuracy has been intentionally
not pinpoint by Israel's own admission.
It seems we've too little common ground
for productive discussion.

 

[Kenny]

Is that a rhetorical question.
I don't know.
Do you?

The accuracy has been intentionally
not pinpoint by Israel's own admission.
It seems we've too little common ground
for productive discussion.

Love the micro take on it so that you don’t have to look at the macro and can ignore the questions.

 

[Revoltingest]

Love the micro take on it so that you don’t have to look at the macro and can ignore the questions.

Part way thru your post, inspiration to
address the inhumanity of it evaporated.
We've no common ground for discussion.
We tried. We failed.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Part way thru your post, inspiration to
address the inhumanity of it evaporated.
We've no common ground for discussion.
We tried. We failed.

I think we're all failing, to some extent.

I would love to post "what I think should be done," but I don't know what should be done. I don't think anybody does, so we all take sides and strike attitudes based on our personal biases.

Could we agree, for example, that those who can be proved to be members of Hamas should be tried for war crimes? I mean, many nations already recognize that they are a terrorist organization -- and I think that was demonstrated on October 7 in Israel, and is still being demonstrated as they hide among civilian Palestinians.

My suspicion, right now, is that Israel is going to stay in Gaza, and try to root out Hamas. I think that they will stay after they've done that (to the extent they can), and once done, I can hope that they'll try to help the Gaza Palestinians to try to regroup. But if they do that, I don't see a way for them to leave, which means probably abandoning a two-state solution and moving towards making the Gazans into "Israeli citizens," with the vote and all the priveleges and duties that come with that. There are, after all, already many Palestinian citizens of Israel in Israel.

Further than that, my imagination fails. But don't some of the rest of you have any positive suggestions for how these seemingly-implacable enemies can move forward?

 

[Shaul]

I never said that Israel shouldn't take action to protect itself from terrorism, but that shouldn't require the intentional killing of innocent kids.

When your cowardly attackers hide among innocents a nation sometimes faces terrible choices. The cowards hiding among the innocents brought about the situation, not the nation attacked.

Ukrainians aren't targeting civilians, though. They're fighting on their own soil, defending it from invaders and occupiers.

Neither are the Israelis targeting civilians. The Ukrainians are also killing civilians as collateral casualties. Just the same as Israelis have collateral casualties. Also the Israelis gave civilians a warning and opportunity to leave the area. Something the Ukrainians didn't always do.

Ever heard the parable about the boy who cried wolf?

Ever heard of "never forget"?