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Are Satan and Hell as bad they say?

Scott C.

Just one guy
20 And it came to pass that Moses began to fear exceedingly; and as he began to fear, he saw the bitterness of hell. Nevertheless, calling upon God, he received strength, and he commanded, saying: Depart from me, Satan, for this one God only will I worship, which is the God of glory.

21 And now Satan began to tremble, and the earth shook; and Moses received strength, and called upon God, saying: In the name of the Only Begotten, depart hence, Satan.

22 And it came to pass that Satan cried with a loud voice, with weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth; and he departed hence, even from the presence of Moses, that he beheld him not.

23 And now of this thing Moses bore record; but because of wickedness it is not had among the children of men.

24 And it came to pass that when Satan had departed from the presence of Moses, that Moses lifted up his eyes unto heaven, being filled with the Holy Ghost, which beareth record of the Father and the Son;

25 And calling upon the name of God, he beheld his glory again, for it was upon him; and he heard a voice, saying: Blessed art thou, Moses, for I, the Almighty, have chosen thee, and thou shalt be made stronger than many waters; for they shall obey thy command as if thou wert God.

26 And lo, I am with thee, even unto the end of thy days; for thou shalt deliver my people from bondage, even Israel my chosen.

27 And it came to pass, as the voice was still speaking, Moses cast his eyes and beheld the earth, yea, even all of it; and there was not a particle of it which he did not behold, discerning it by the spirit of God.

28 And he beheld also the inhabitants thereof, and there was not a soul which he beheld not; and he discerned them by the Spirit of God; and their numbers were great, even numberless as the sand upon the sea shore.

29 And he beheld many lands; and each land was called earth, and there were inhabitants on the face thereof.

30 And it came to pass that Moses called upon God, saying: Tell me, I pray thee, why these things are so, and by what thou madest them?

31 And behold, the glory of the Lord was upon Moses, so that Moses stood in the presence of God, and talked with him face to face. And the Lord God said unto Moses: For mine own purpose have I made these things. Here is wisdom and it remaineth in me.

32 And by the word of my power, have I created them, which is mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth.

33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.

34 And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many.

35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them.

36 And it came to pass that Moses spake unto the Lord, saying: Be merciful unto thy servant, O God, and tell me concerning this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, and also the heavens, and then thy servant will be content.

37 And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine.

38 And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words.

39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

40 And now, Moses, my son, I will speak unto thee concerning this earth upon which thou standest; and thou shalt write the things which I shall speak.

41 And in a day when the children of men shall esteem my words as naught and take many of them from the book which thou shalt write, behold, I will raise up another like unto thee; and they shall be had again among the children of men—among as many as shall believe.


Some ideas learned -

- Glory of God
- Endless creations of God
- God's work to bring to pass immortality and eternal life of man.
- Only Begotten is the Savior
- Satan claimed to be the Only Begotten (Christ) and demanded to be worshiped as such.
- Satan not a person of glory
- The bitterness of hell
- We have power to rid Satan from our lives through the name of the Only Begotten.
- Much more.

This is great stuff. A great chapter
 
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danny vee

Member
Then what's the point? No boredom, no bliss, no happiness, no sadness...

We'd be as the mindless Seraphim! No thanks!

I think that speculation on what Heaven is like is utterly pointless. We can't know so why even try to figure it out before our time? Heaven is the best possible thing there is, it is utter joy forever and ever. That's the closest we can come to defining it, and still I think it is better. It is the best place, and we simply cannot understand it until we die.
 

herushura

Active Member
You mixing greek mythology with Christianity, Lucifer is not a biblical character, it a word of astrology to the Greco-romens of the morning star, Venus.

The bible never stated that satan is evil, knor Hell exists. The reason people belive that satan and hell exist, is because of mixing greek mythology with hebrew mythology.

Satan is just a metaphorical being that repressent the inner-concious of biblical characters like Jesus and eve. having a demon in your body, does not mean a physical demon, it means you have sinned a great deal, it like having butterflys in the stomach were you motionlly ache inside, when jesus cast the demon out, he casts the worrys out of the man making him a better person.
 
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danny vee

Member
But I would still be myself wouldn't I?(unless you think in going to heaven "who we are" is completley changed, in which case I would still say no thanks) And I am the kind of person who would find it very boring and very stuffy and feel very crowded in a city. I wouldn't mind visiting occasionally, but heaven to me would be swimming through the depths of the ocean with the dolphins with no need for a wetsuit nor need to worry about water pressure; or running through the forests along side the wolves, flying high in the sky without any limits, or even exploring the wonders of space at my leisure without any need for a spacesuit nor need to worry about the great amount of time and distance to traverse. Nature is my heaven, a city is just buildings, but Nature is truly wondrous.

Heaven is utter bliss. You can't know what it is. It is just greatness and still more. I think refusing it would be like refusing the gold medal after you've won in the Olympics, it would be a lot worse than that, it would be like someone preparing a huge party for you and you working hard so you could make it to the party, and then suddenly refusing the party, it would be worse than that. I think that Heaven is simply the best place.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
I think that speculation on what Heaven is like is utterly pointless. We can't know so why even try to figure it out before our time? Heaven is the best possible thing there is, it is utter joy forever and ever. That's the closest we can come to defining it, and still I think it is better. It is the best place, and we simply cannot understand it until we die.

What if I don't want "for ever and ever"?
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Heaven is utter bliss. You can't know what it is. It is just greatness and still more. I think refusing it would be like refusing the gold medal after you've won in the Olympics, it would be a lot worse than that, it would be like someone preparing a huge party for you and you working hard so you could make it to the party, and then suddenly refusing the party, it would be worse than that. I think that Heaven is simply the best place.

Except wasn't heaven described in detail in Revelations?

The picture painted in that book is not heaven; it's hell.
 

MoonWater

Warrior Bard
Premium Member
Heaven is utter bliss. You can't know what it is. It is just greatness and still more. I think refusing it would be like refusing the gold medal after you've won in the Olympics, it would be a lot worse than that, it would be like someone preparing a huge party for you and you working hard so you could make it to the party, and then suddenly refusing the party, it would be worse than that. I think that Heaven is simply the best place.

Those are poor examples for me as I have no desire to enter the olympics and I can't stand huge parties. Besides what you consider to be the best place may not be considered the best by others. And I'm merely going off of the biblical description of heaven. The description given in the bible doesn't sound heavenly at all to me, it sounds artificial and confining. I just don't have any interest in "eternal bliss", no matter how "wonderful" it may be.
 

emiliano

Well-Known Member
Those are poor examples for me as I have no desire to enter the olympics and I can't stand huge parties. Besides what you consider to be the best place may not be considered the best by others. And I'm merely going off of the biblical description of heaven. The description given in the bible doesn't sound heavenly at all to me, it sounds artificial and confining. I just don't have any interest in "eternal bliss", no matter how "wonderful" it may be.


Could it be that you are not invited to that place? Do you think that God's kingdom will be incomplete without you?
 

MoonWater

Warrior Bard
Premium Member
Could it be that you are not invited to that place?

I just said I wouldn't want to go to the heaven that is described in the bible, as such, why would I care about being invited? Now if heaven were more like Summerland, that would be a different story

Do you think that God's kingdom will be incomplete without you?

Not at all, I would never be so arrogant
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Heaven is the best possible thing there is, it is utter joy forever and ever.
For me though, it would be a place of misery. I have no desire to kneel before anyone, especially when I find them to be unworthy of anyone's worship. So I can take my choice of mental anguish and no pride, or physical torments and my pride intact.
 

emiliano

Well-Known Member
Or could it be that God's kingdom has something for everyone?

But MoonWater does not want any part of it , she is very Epicurean in her thoughts, there is no promises of carnal entertainment in the Kingdom that God promises, it is a spiritual place, the promise of the Christian kingdom of God is peace and rest, hell is full of action and as humans have free will, she can choose what is more appealing to her, beside Christianity is so restrictive, too stoic. Heavens, the Christian heaven has nothing to offer but abstinence and discipline in this life and something that nobody can describe in the next. Nothing of interest, it look that there is not signs of enticements for some.
 

emiliano

Well-Known Member
For what, exactly?

I'm aware that it's mostly allegory, but what can "no sun and no moon and no ocean" be allegory for?

For a blissful eternal life offcourse, a place that is beyond human comprehension/understanding.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out!
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
But MoonWater does not want any part of it , she is very Epicurean in her thoughts, there is no promises of carnal entertainment in the Kingdom that God promises, it is a spiritual place, the promise of the Christian kingdom of God is peace and rest, hell is full of action and as humans have free will, she can choose what is more appealing to her, beside Christianity is so restrictive, too stoic. Heavens, the Christian heaven has nothing to offer but abstinence and discipline in this life and something that nobody can describe in the next. Nothing of interest, it look that there is not signs of enticements for some.

Uh, just so you're aware, MoonWater is a very spiritual person. She's not gluttonous at all, nor does she constantly indulge in carnal desires.

Just because someone finds the heaven of the Bible to be uninteresting doesn't mean they won't find a place of spiritual rest enlightening. (I've been wanting to go to a Buddhist monastery with her for a while) Nor does it mean they fit Paul's explicit description of what unbelievers do.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
For a blissful eternal life offcourse, a place that is beyond human comprehension/understanding.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out!

How can having no sun, no moon, and no oceans be in any possible way blissful?! Eternal life on this world is bad enough, let alone somewhere where there isn't anything.

The only eternal bliss is in death, IMO.
 
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