TruthaboutGod
Active Member
This is a questions I cannot answer. As stated what was to be written was that God cannot see the future, whatever is the reasoning behind this, is His.
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- Thread starter TruthaboutGod
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This is a questions I cannot answer. As stated what was to be written was that God cannot see the future, whatever is the reasoning behind this, is His.
TruthaboutGod
Active Member
TruthaboutGod
Active Member
Assuming there was no Freedom, no good or bad, and everything was perfect, how would you define torture?
Mike182
Flaming Queer
Did you read 2Kings 2:23-25? That was Elisha, not God.(If you are going to quote scripture, at least read it) Mankind is capable of malice, spite, and being petty, I do not think ANYONE will argue that
In the case of Abraham, that was a test. God cannot see the future, so God did not know if Abraham would slay his son or not. When it bacame obvious that Abraham would slay his son, he was stoppped.
the curse was in the name of God - and the curse was answered by God who sent the bears. Elisha didn't have the power to do that, God did.
as for God testing Abraham, well yes it was a test, but that does not negate the fact that God lied to Abraham. i'm not saying God was wrong for doing that, he needed to test the faith of Abraham, but you say he can't lie when he obviously can.
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
Your right..Im grateful I have a defintition or starting point to know being raped feels like crap..so does having people die around me..and without freedom my brain would be to small to know all around me everyday others suffer..
Its a good thing Im free to know these things..
How would I have it any other way??
Blessings
Dallas
K.Venugopal
Immobile Wanderer
OK, you prefer to call Allah 'it' in English on the basis of the word HU in Arabic. I think it is fair enough. I congratulate you for going where no Muslim has gone before in calling Allah 'it'. (Am I right?) However, I would like to point out that 'he' and 'it' are pronouns whereas HU, being one of Allah's 99 names, is a proper noun. So clearly the Quran does not use 'it' for Allah.
.lava
Veteran Member
you donot have that word in english. that word doesnot refer any sexulity.
don't be funny! there is nothing to congratulate. you donot know Muslims. no Muslims would call Allah 'he' in his own language.
you donot get it? well, excuse me...
.lava
Veteran Member
you're not stupid Dallas. it was a friendly question.
K.Venugopal
Immobile Wanderer
What do you mean "in his own language". Aren't there native English Muslims? Of course they call Allah "He" in English. The Quran in English is full of "He". But you appear to be the only one who calls Allah "it" in English, whatever your language is. Do you know of others who do?
.lava
Veteran Member
ever since human was created there was and still there is just ONE RELIGION OF GOD. religion of God was explained in Tavrah of Muses(PBUH) the the same religion was explained in Bible. original texts of these two books CAN NOT conflict with Qur'an. yet they were given in different times and since every Prophet came along with a shariah some rituels could be different. but the spine of religion may never change. unfortunately some Rabbis changed these two books.
i quoted it because it was said in Qur'an. as a Muslim that is enough for me. yet, i also know that i can trust Christian people.
the point is you can not describe God with anything you know. you can not imagine God. there are people who saw God. they simply say there is no way to describe how God looks. because there is nothing that we know is similiar to God. nothing is similiar to God. demons are energy. they have energy bodies.
as i said before. i cannot trust Bible. there are people who do researches in three books. they use Qur'an to find true verses of Bible and Tavrah. they are dedicated to this at least for years. i donot have time for that. but i know it is not easy at all. to read holy books in couple of weeks and to understand them is impossible. only Qu'an would take a life time. even a life time wouldnot be enough. cos science of God never ends.
dear friend, you say God can not lie, right?
i say, God doesnot lie.
so, don't you see any difference between two sayings?
when you say God cannot lie, you'd have this conclusion: God is programmed to be honest, therefor God cannot lie. but God is not a computer system. God doesnot lie, because God doensot have weaknesses.
but if you say God cannot lie, that means God has a weakness. just because you pick up the word 'CAN'. and you insist.
let me give an example:
1- i don't talk
2- i can't talk
both means 'no talking'. but first one is my choice. second one is an obligation. for some reason i am not able to talk.
ALL KNOWING doesnot need interpretion.
cos it is simple. ALL-
logic can not explain how a man walks on water. cos logic works with maths...numbers. logic doesnot accept anything against physical facts. therefor people say 'i have faith' instead of 'i have logic'
i didnot invite you to call God 'it'. all the Christians and Muslims here use the word 'he'. i don't. ok?
Qur'an is not only 1/3 of knowledge. there is nothing missing there. it is perfect as God. untouched, unchanged. every Christian could compare it wth Bible and find out what ordinary men changed in Bible. Qur'an says those books were changed by men. also say Qur'an would be protected till the end of time. so Qur'an is the only book to trust COMPLETELY.
also Abraham (PBUH), Noah (PBUH) and all the prophets were given books. Book of Abraham (PBUH) isnot around anymore.
i donot study Bible. becasue even if i did i couldnot practise. why? cos i have the last one. i am a Muslim. i wouldnot study anything if it is not going to be a act in my life. cos religion is more what you do than what you know.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
As the Muslim camp here on RF will undoubtedly agree, I rarely agree with their position on a host of matters. However, on this particular point, as someone who has "seen" "god", I am wholeheartedly in support of the above statement. Any description or allusions to what is or what is not God, or what God can or cannot do, are merely the conjecture of the rather limited thinking of somewhat arrogant human animals.
.lava
Veteran Member
yes, i know Qur'an in English is full of 'he' because of the nature of language. my teachers would use 'he' in case they're speaking in English. for the same reason.
no i don't know others who do. but i know religious people does not call Allah 'God'. since we have specific names for each; God, Goddess and Allah. i mean we have separate names for God & Goddess as well in our language.
TruthaboutGod
Active Member
Actually God did not send the bears, there is also no such thing as "miracles".(This is also explained in the book) All the things you hear about in the Bible that seems like a miracle is nothing more then atomic manipulation. It is like taking a microwave oven back to their time and putting food in it. They would claim it as a miracle as you push and few buttons and BOOM the food is heated. Yet we all know today that a microwave simply heats food by increasing the friction of molecules within the food. Mankind uses tools to cause atomic manipulation, however God can teach/show man how to manipulate atoms without the use of a tool. Jesus, Moses, many disciples, and obviously Elisha are all examples. There is actually a passage from the Qur'an that deals with the misues of this knowledge:
SURAH 2 102:
They followed what the evil ones gave out falsely against the power of Solomon: the blasphemers were, not Solomon, but the evil ones, teaching men magic, and such things as came down at Babylon to the angels Harut and Marut. But neither of these taught anyone such things without saying: We are only for trial; so do not blaspheme. They learned from them the means to sow discord between man and wife. But they could not thus harm anyone except by Allahs permission. And they learned what harmed them, not what profited them. And they knew that the buyers of magic would have no share in the happiness of the hereafter. And vile was the price for which they did sell their souls, if they but knew!
I also am a little confused about where you feel God lied. I went over the story of Abraham again and cannot find it. Could you please state the verse where you feel God lied?
TruthaboutGod
Active Member
If your physical body did not die, how would your Soul attain Heaven, or be Judged? It seems you are putting all your thoughts into death, destruction and violence, and you blame God for it. Look around, it is man that is causing the death, destruction, and violence.
TruthaboutGod
Active Member
I cannot quote and reply as again this site has a restriction on size. However I do believe we have reached an agreement. If you would like to say: "God does not lie", that is fine, we can both agree on this 100%. In the end we both understand the same thing. The "ends" always justifies the "means", this is another thing God has explained to me, this had happened while discussing Sodom and Gomorrah, as well as the Gret Flood.
I still disagree with your take on the Bible as with God's guidance, you would have no problem. It is just a shame that you would not want to receive everything that God has made availible to you. You may argue that you can still obtain Heaven without the Bible, yet why refuse a Gift that God has made availible to you?
I do have one question for you, well actually two...
1. Can you honestly say that you see no difference between a Muslim, a Jew, and a Christian, as far as their ability to acquire Heaven?
2. Did you really answer question one honestly?
P.S. As a brain teaser, what religion am I?
I still disagree with your take on the Bible as with God's guidance, you would have no problem. It is just a shame that you would not want to receive everything that God has made availible to you. You may argue that you can still obtain Heaven without the Bible, yet why refuse a Gift that God has made availible to you?
I do have one question for you, well actually two...
1. Can you honestly say that you see no difference between a Muslim, a Jew, and a Christian, as far as their ability to acquire Heaven?
2. Did you really answer question one honestly?
P.S. As a brain teaser, what religion am I?
TruthaboutGod
Active Member
I hope you do understand that God may take any form He desires, so God may appear to people in different ways and forms.(This is also explained in the book)
.lava
Veteran Member
i don't know your religion. that does not matter.
the Prophets of Allah came along in certain order. the last one was the greatest.
yet that's not my point here. when Muses(PBUH) was given Tavrah, all the people who believed and followed him were saved. but later people dared to change Tavrah. only after that, Jesus(PBUH) came. not before. because one of his duty was to correct those changes in Tavrah. some Jews followed Jesus (PBUH) and accepted Bible over Tavrah and they were saved. the ones who refused to abandone Tavrah were not. what happened to Tavrah also happened to Bible as well. then Muhammed(PBUH) came along to correct changes. there've been Jews and Christians who followed him and accepted Qur'an and they were saved. since Muhammed(PBUH) was the last prophet of all times, Qur'an, as God promised, is protected and will be protected till the end of time. no power could change a single letter in it. but comments could be personal, therefor wrong. even if thousands of comments come out, the original text of Qur'an remains the same.
i can see how you perceive me. you are wrong about me. i don't think all the Muslims would go heaven and i do not think all the Jews and Christians would go hell. it is not like that. entire religion of Allah is based on one thing. one 'must' to enter heaven. doesnot matter if you are living in amazone, alaska, wherever...doesnot matter if you're a Muslim or Christian. there is only one key for heaven. that key placed in your heart.
yes, i answered honestly. i consider that being ordinary.
TruthaboutGod
Active Member
I am surprised you would state that Muhammad was the greatest...
SURAH 3 – 144:
Muhammad is no more then a messenger: many were the messengers that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will you then turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah, on the other hand, will swiftly reward those who serve Him with gratitude.
The Qur'an also teaches us not to make differences between the Messengers:
SURAH 4 – 152:
To those who believe in Allah and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of the Messengers, We shall soon give their due rewards: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
P.S. The brain teaser was a trick question, I am not religious.
.lava
Veteran Member
first of all:
(2:36)Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Ibrahim, Isma'il, Ishaq, Ya'qub, and the Tribes, and that given to Musa and 'Isa, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord: we make no difference between one and another of them: and we bow to Allah (in Islam)."
and second of all:
in creation of Allah none of two creature are completely equal. Allah sure owns everything and everybody. Allah owns all the Prophets and Prophets do nothing in the command of their egos. they do what Allah says and nothing else. therefor all the Prophets are valuable and all the messenger carry the message from the one and only source. Muhammad (PBUH) is the Imam of heaven. he is the highest of all Prophets. comparing the others. nothing compares to Allah. therefor he is one of the messengers. yet we all call him Habibullah for a reason. reason is in Qur'an.
[3:144] Muhammad is no more than a Messenger: many were the Messengers that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve him) with gratitude.
every verse was given for a reason. this one arrived in war times. during a war, humuor started which claimed the Prophet was dead. followers of Muhammad (PBUH) almost lost strenght because they loved him so much. only when they saw he was still alive, they came back to themselves with strenght. then this verse was given as i remember. in war, they didnot fight for Muhammad(PBUH) they loved him more than they love themselves but they didnot surrender him. they surrendered Allah. so this verse simply points that fact. even if Prophet was dead, they should have kept on figthing. because that war wasnot for Muhammad (PBUH) himself. it was for Allah and Muhammad (PBUH) was Allah's messenger. that was a lesson to learn for followers of the Last Prophet.
TruthaboutGod
Active Member
We will disagree then. God gives men many Gifts so that man may understand Him and live by His Plan. I will not argue with your value of Muhammad, however I see it as error. All the Gifts that God provides man with, should be seen as equal. The Christians overvalued the Gift of Jesus and made Him an equal to God, was this not in error? Was not a primary reason that God gave the Gift of Knowledge and Wisdom to Muhammad to correct this error? Muhammad was truly a Gift to mankind from God, however so was Abraham, Moses, Jesus, David, and others.
You must understand that this is another reason I will not join a religion. I cannot convince a Christian that Muhammad is equal to Jesus, just like I cannot convince a Jew that Jesus is equal to Moses. I refuse to be involved with man's struggle for dominance over each other through the use of religion. We are all Children of God, no race, color, religion, or any other form of seperation that mankind dreams up, will seperate us. On Judgement Day, God will Judge you no differently then He judges me. If God does not view different peoples through different eyes, why should we view each other through different eyes?
Another lesson taught in the book is that God wants us to mimic Him.(To our capacity) To give our neighbors love, compassion, free will, freedom from oppression, etc... The only tool that satan uses against man is temptation, to seperate us from God. What better way for satan to succeed, but to start by seperating us from ourselves, through mankind creating "groups" of men.(race, religion, money, language, etc...) God did not create religions, mankind did.
You must understand that even in the end satan(Ibliss) will still bow to God:
SURAH 59 16:
Their allies deceived them like the Evil One, when he says to man, Deny Allah: but when man denies Allah, the Evil One says, I am free of you: I do fear Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!
I am afraid we have reached a glass ceiling here. As I do not wish to anger you by disagreeing with how you interpret, or were taught, the lessons of the Qur'an. I believe that you will see fault where no fault exists and therefore fault will be created. Study the Qur'an and listen to what God reveals, and do not let men lead you astray.
SURAH 4 135:
O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be against rich or poor: for Allah can best protect you both. Follow not the lusts of your hearts, lest you swerve, and if you distort justice or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do.
SURAH 3 3:
It is He Who sent down to you step by step, in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law of Moses and the Gospel of Jesus before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion of judgment between right and wrong.
SURAH 10 37:
This Quran is not such as can be produced by other than Allah; on the contrary it is a confirmation of revelations that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book wherein there is no doubt from the Lord of the Worlds.
SURAH 5 101 and 102:
O you who believe! Do not ask questions about things which if made plain to you may cause you trouble. But if you ask about things when the Quran is being revealed, they will be made plain to you, Allah will forgive those: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing. Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith.
SURAH 20 114:
High above all is Allah, the King, the Truth! Be not in haste with the Quran before its revelation to you is completed, but say, O my Lord! Advance me in knowledge.
SURAH 16 25:
Let them bear, on the Day of Judgment, their own burdens in full, and also something of the burdens of those without knowledge, whom they mislead. Alas, how grievous the burdens they will bear!