K.Venugopal
Immobile Wanderer
Speaking of the Quran, please tell me if in the Quran Allah is called 'it' in Arabic?
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.lava
Veteran Member
no answers...fine.
in Noble Qur'an, Allah(CC) is called by names of Allah. Allah has 99 names only in Qur'an. one of the names refers to the Self. that name is HU (sounds like who)
words that refer to sexuality are different. such as Rical. Qur'an says all the Imams are rical. which means they are all male. But the word HU doesnot refer any sexuality. yet there is no word in English that matches to HU.
TruthaboutGod
Active Member
You cannot create excuses why one Book is better then the other. I have been asked numerous times which Qur'an or which translation I refer to. As I have said I have read the NKJV and the Qur'an, and I have found no conflicts, a few places where the same events where described in a diiferent viewpoint, by a different source, but no conflicts. So if you believe that the Bible has been perverted or conflicts with the Qur'an, please show an example?
Why did you quote 5:73? Of course there is no such thing as a trinity, here is a C&P from the book:
The holy trinity?
Unfortunately this does not exist. The common belief of this holy trinity is that it consists of three separate, yet intertwined, pieces. God is one, Jesus is the second and the Holy Spirit is third, thus: The Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost. In truth God does exist, and His Son(Mankind) does exist, however the Holy Spirit is actually God. God is a Spirit of Pure Energy in His natural form. Although God is truly formless, when you see Him in Heaven, He will appear as a Spirit of Pure Energy, or any other Form that He desires. By the way, this is not an atomic energy, but a Pure Energy that is, so far, unknown to mankind.
I know that this whole trinity thing sounds like a good idea, however if you search the entire Old Testament, and the entire New Testament you will not find it even mentioned once. This means that this is a thing that mankind has added to God. I do not want to sound hateful or condescending about this type of activity, so I will let the Bible speak on this topic:
Deuteronomy 4 2:
You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
Deuteronomy 12 32:
Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it.
Proverbs 30 5 and 6:
Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
You have actually proved my point of what God cannot do, read your post:
1. You can tempt the weak.
2. Lie - this is another result of being weak
3. Malice is not a weakness, malice is the feeling the need to see others suffer, and it is evil.
As you see God cannot do these things because God is not WEAK! You have proved my point for me, yet you were trying to argue against me.
"God is not a part of creation." I have no idea why you said this, as I never claimed He was? I also do not understand your arguement of time, as I never claimed He was restricted or affected by time.
"ps: if God does not see the future then how come we know about this conversation that did not happen yet" --- This also confuses me as I have no idea what you are talking about, SURAH 7:38, and 7:138 have nothing at all to do with seeing the future. It is an explanation and warning to those that have Hell as their destination. Also do not misunderstand, while God cannot see the future, God can make the future.(There is a huge difference there though, this is also explained in the book)
"ps: that is even before we were created" As stated, God can make the future, this is simply an example of God knowing what He had intended, and then carrying out that intention.
SURAH 2:115, I guess we will disagree on. I can see how you interpret this, as you feel that "All Knowing" includes "seeing the future".
I have never known God not to be logical.(God is working on His Plan, not the plan of mankind)
I have to disagree on addresing God as "He". God does not have a sexuality, I have no problem reffereing to God as He, as I do not use He in any kind of sexaul reference.
I honestly find it hard to believe you would reject the Bible so easily. If you reject the Bbile then you are also rejected Jews, and Christians that follow the Bible. To only digest the Qur'an, is to know only 1/3 of the Knowledge and Wisdom that God has made availible to you. Although you may not heed me, the Qur'an speaks to the validity of the Old Testament and the New Testament, as well as to Jews and Christians reaching Heaven:
SURAH 3 84:
Say: We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in the Books given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets, from their Lord: we make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will in Islam.
"in the books given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord". I will not argue that the Bible has not been changed by man through the years, but that is simply an excuse for you not to read it. With the Guidance of God, you will have no probelms. Will you atill refuse to read what God has provided you?
Why did you quote 5:73? Of course there is no such thing as a trinity, here is a C&P from the book:
The holy trinity?
Unfortunately this does not exist. The common belief of this holy trinity is that it consists of three separate, yet intertwined, pieces. God is one, Jesus is the second and the Holy Spirit is third, thus: The Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost. In truth God does exist, and His Son(Mankind) does exist, however the Holy Spirit is actually God. God is a Spirit of Pure Energy in His natural form. Although God is truly formless, when you see Him in Heaven, He will appear as a Spirit of Pure Energy, or any other Form that He desires. By the way, this is not an atomic energy, but a Pure Energy that is, so far, unknown to mankind.
I know that this whole trinity thing sounds like a good idea, however if you search the entire Old Testament, and the entire New Testament you will not find it even mentioned once. This means that this is a thing that mankind has added to God. I do not want to sound hateful or condescending about this type of activity, so I will let the Bible speak on this topic:
Deuteronomy 4 2:
You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
Deuteronomy 12 32:
Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it.
Proverbs 30 5 and 6:
Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
You have actually proved my point of what God cannot do, read your post:
1. You can tempt the weak.
2. Lie - this is another result of being weak
3. Malice is not a weakness, malice is the feeling the need to see others suffer, and it is evil.
As you see God cannot do these things because God is not WEAK! You have proved my point for me, yet you were trying to argue against me.
"God is not a part of creation." I have no idea why you said this, as I never claimed He was? I also do not understand your arguement of time, as I never claimed He was restricted or affected by time.
"ps: if God does not see the future then how come we know about this conversation that did not happen yet" --- This also confuses me as I have no idea what you are talking about, SURAH 7:38, and 7:138 have nothing at all to do with seeing the future. It is an explanation and warning to those that have Hell as their destination. Also do not misunderstand, while God cannot see the future, God can make the future.(There is a huge difference there though, this is also explained in the book)
"ps: that is even before we were created" As stated, God can make the future, this is simply an example of God knowing what He had intended, and then carrying out that intention.
SURAH 2:115, I guess we will disagree on. I can see how you interpret this, as you feel that "All Knowing" includes "seeing the future".
I have never known God not to be logical.(God is working on His Plan, not the plan of mankind)
I have to disagree on addresing God as "He". God does not have a sexuality, I have no problem reffereing to God as He, as I do not use He in any kind of sexaul reference.
I honestly find it hard to believe you would reject the Bible so easily. If you reject the Bbile then you are also rejected Jews, and Christians that follow the Bible. To only digest the Qur'an, is to know only 1/3 of the Knowledge and Wisdom that God has made availible to you. Although you may not heed me, the Qur'an speaks to the validity of the Old Testament and the New Testament, as well as to Jews and Christians reaching Heaven:
SURAH 3 84:
Say: We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in the Books given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets, from their Lord: we make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will in Islam.
"in the books given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord". I will not argue that the Bible has not been changed by man through the years, but that is simply an excuse for you not to read it. With the Guidance of God, you will have no probelms. Will you atill refuse to read what God has provided you?
TruthaboutGod
Active Member
TruthaboutGod
Active Member
oh we can all quote the Bible
2Kings2:23-25, if God condones that, i would say he is pretty malicious, spiteful and petty.
as for not being able to lie, what was he doing to Abraham when he said he wanted Abraham to kill his son? 'cause that certainly wasn't entirely truthful now, was it.
Did you read 2Kings 2:23-25? That was Elisha, not God.(If you are going to quote scripture, at least read it) Mankind is capable of malice, spite, and being petty, I do not think ANYONE will argue that
In the case of Abraham, that was a test. God cannot see the future, so God did not know if Abraham would slay his son or not. When it bacame obvious that Abraham would slay his son, he was stoppped.
TruthaboutGod
Active Member
Bah, let it go, the usage of "it" was of no offense to me, as it was not used as a reference to me.
rasor
Member
How do you know this ?
rasor
Member
So your god is not "all knowing" then ?
TruthaboutGod
Active Member
This is part 2 for .lava (seems there is a caharcter limit in posts)
PART 2
Also do not hold yourself above Jews, and Christians...
SURAH 3 144:
Muhammad is no more then a messenger: many were the messengers that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will you then turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah, on the other hand, will swiftly reward those who serve Him with gratitude.
SURAH 57 26 and 27:
And we sent Noah and Abraham, and established in their line Prophethood and Revelation: and some of them were on right guidance, but many of them became rebellious transgressors.
Then, in their wake, We followed them up with others of Our Messengers: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel; and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him compassion and mercy. But the Monasticism which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them: We commanded only the seeking for the Good Pleasure of Allah; but that they did not foster as they should have done. Yet We bestowed, on those among them who believed, their due reward, but many of them are rebellious transgressors.
SURAH 29 46:
And you do not dispute with the People of the Book, except with means better then mere disputation, unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong and injury: but say, We believe in the Revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; our God Allah, and your God Allah is One; and it is to Him We bow in Islam.
SURAH 2 139 and 140:
Say: Will you dispute with us about Allah, seeing that He is our Lord and your Lord; that we are responsible for our doings and you for yours; and that we are sincere in our faith in Him? Or do you say that Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob and the tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Do you know better then Allah? Ah! Who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah? But Allah is not unmindful of what you do!
SURAH 3 3:
It is He Who sent down to you step by step, in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law of Moses and the Gospel of Jesus before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion of judgment between right and wrong.
SURAH 45 16:
We did aforetime grant to the Children of Israel the Book, the Power of Command, and Prophethood; We gave them, for sustenance, things good and pure; and We favored them above the nations.
and most impotantly, they will acquire the same Heaven as you, no greater and no lesser:
SURAH 2 62:
Those who believe in the Quran, and those who follow the Jewish scriptures, and the Christians and the Sabians, and who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Now you know why I do not choose a religion. Over time you have been made prejudice to the Bible and those who follow it, NOT because of what the Qur'an has taught you, but because of what your fellow MAN has taught you. When it comes to matters of God, God is best to teach about these matters.
PART 2
Also do not hold yourself above Jews, and Christians...
SURAH 3 144:
Muhammad is no more then a messenger: many were the messengers that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will you then turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah, on the other hand, will swiftly reward those who serve Him with gratitude.
SURAH 57 26 and 27:
And we sent Noah and Abraham, and established in their line Prophethood and Revelation: and some of them were on right guidance, but many of them became rebellious transgressors.
Then, in their wake, We followed them up with others of Our Messengers: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel; and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him compassion and mercy. But the Monasticism which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them: We commanded only the seeking for the Good Pleasure of Allah; but that they did not foster as they should have done. Yet We bestowed, on those among them who believed, their due reward, but many of them are rebellious transgressors.
SURAH 29 46:
And you do not dispute with the People of the Book, except with means better then mere disputation, unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong and injury: but say, We believe in the Revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; our God Allah, and your God Allah is One; and it is to Him We bow in Islam.
SURAH 2 139 and 140:
Say: Will you dispute with us about Allah, seeing that He is our Lord and your Lord; that we are responsible for our doings and you for yours; and that we are sincere in our faith in Him? Or do you say that Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob and the tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Do you know better then Allah? Ah! Who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah? But Allah is not unmindful of what you do!
SURAH 3 3:
It is He Who sent down to you step by step, in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law of Moses and the Gospel of Jesus before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion of judgment between right and wrong.
SURAH 45 16:
We did aforetime grant to the Children of Israel the Book, the Power of Command, and Prophethood; We gave them, for sustenance, things good and pure; and We favored them above the nations.
and most impotantly, they will acquire the same Heaven as you, no greater and no lesser:
SURAH 2 62:
Those who believe in the Quran, and those who follow the Jewish scriptures, and the Christians and the Sabians, and who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Now you know why I do not choose a religion. Over time you have been made prejudice to the Bible and those who follow it, NOT because of what the Qur'an has taught you, but because of what your fellow MAN has taught you. When it comes to matters of God, God is best to teach about these matters.
TruthaboutGod
Active Member
God explained it to me.
rasor
Member
Did he actually appear to you or is this one of those inner revelations ?
TruthaboutGod
Active Member
The Greatest Gift of God to maknind is Freedom, God cannot see the future as this would negate the Gift of Freedom. You are free to accept Him or deny Him, to live within His Plan, or outside of His Plan. You will be Judged based upon the choices you make, given the freedom you have been given. If God were to see the future, then truly you have no choice as your future has laready been decided. Why mankind feels that not seeing the future is a "weakness" is beyond my understanding. I have already shown many examples that God cannot see the future, as already stated, if He could, we would never have been created.
Genesis 6 - 6:
And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on earth and He grieved in his heart.
I do not ask many questions here, however I challenge anyone to answer this: "How does not being able to see the future detract from omnipotence"?
The definition of omnipotent is: "Almighty: having unlimited power"
Hopefully someone will figure out that this question has no answer. In order for there to be a logical measurement of "unlimited power", there must be a measurement of "power". Since there is no one that can see the future, there cannot be a measurement of how far in the future one can see. Not seeing the future DOES NOT detract from God at all.
TruthaboutGod
Active Member
I will apologize because this forum post has went through many pages of posts and replies, however this question has already been answered.
rasor
Member
TruthaboutGod
Active Member
On a side note:
Being very confused that people do not understand that God cannot see the future, I had just mentioned this to my thirteen year old son.(Who is reading the book) He looked up at me and stated: "If God could see the future, then He would already know if His Plan failed or succeded, and we are all living meaningless lives". This was from a 13 year old...(I never even thought of this)
Being very confused that people do not understand that God cannot see the future, I had just mentioned this to my thirteen year old son.(Who is reading the book) He looked up at me and stated: "If God could see the future, then He would already know if His Plan failed or succeded, and we are all living meaningless lives". This was from a 13 year old...(I never even thought of this)
TruthaboutGod
Active Member
Sigh...
There is a distinction between:
- inherent omniscience - the ability to know anything that one chooses to know and can be known
- total omniscience - actually knowing everything that can be known.
Whether by a natural existence, or because of God' own Choice, He cannot see the future. It would make me feel a lot better to just claim that God choose Himself to not see the future, however I do not know this as a fact. When I was writing the book the statement that was to be written was: "God cannot see the future, however God can make the future".(This is in the book)
rasor
Member
So,let me get this right.Are you saying god can see the future but chooses not to ?
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
I really dont know..maybe you can tell me..you seem to be more educated about that.Im the wrong person to ask..
I just know thier is the a book called the Bible and in it it the first part is called the Old Testament and the second is the called New Testament.
If I have said something to show my stupidity again feel free to let me know.I dont mind..
Blessings
Dallas
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Theoretically, being the design of a perfect being, there is no possibility of the so-called plan "failing". Surely you can see how you are merely projecting your own exceedingly limited understanding onto "god" and thereby limiting said being in the process.
...wait a sec I'll bet three, relatively meaningless, crumbling, old Holy Books that it didn't come up in your alleged "conversation", did it? Just how convenient is that, eh?
Oh, btw: In our last go round, you wondered why I come here (presumably to this thread but also perhaps to RF, in general. That is incredibly easy to answer. I come here to interact with human animals such as yourself, so that I have object lessons in how I never want to come across to others human animals... and for general amusement, of course.
Tell ya what, though I am not especially interested in your answer, "If god cannot "see" the future, then it is not accurate to refer to god as Omniscient, as he doesn't know everything. If that is the case then it is also unlikely that he is Omnipresent or Omnipotent. So, in your opinion, is god indeed either Omnipotent or Omnipresent.
Granted, I am not seriously interested in your answer, but if you could indulge an old man, it might get you some frubals for your effort. :yes:
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
So I have to live a life of being tortured..and watch people I love be tortured..in order to be happy sometimes when Im not currently beign tortured or they arent?
And if I wasnt beign tortured emotioanlly or physically or no one I knew was I wouldnt know right from wrong?
Blessings
Dallas