Avi's Spiritual and Religious Journey - Part 2

[paarsurrey]

This is correct. Therefore, the study of creation of the universe and the earth are fully within the domain of science, and religion has nothing to say about these topics. Are we in full agreement?

I think mostly.

If the scientists (not the science, exactly) give their opinions, off the cuff, about G-d or the purpose of the universe or purpose of life; that is not the domain of science. This is purely the domain of religion; then those opinions will be strongly rejected by me.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

We reform Jews believe that Torah was "G-d inspired".

Reformation in religion must be an authorized one; it must take one back to the original Word of Revelation descended on the original recipient (prophet/messenger) of Revelation from the One-True-God (G-d).

If it is not authorized reformation; it could deform the original teachings in the name of reformation.

Regards

 

[Avi1001]

Reformation in religion must be an authorized one; it must take one back to the original Word of Revelation descended on the original recipient (prophet/messenger) of Revelation from the One-True-God (G-d).

If it is not authorized reformation; it could deform the original teachings in the name of reformation.

Regards

The exact opposite is true. Rather than authorized, reformation is resisted and obstructed by authority. That is why I have to post, out here, in the debate sub-.

Are there any issues in Islam that you believe need to be reformed ? Let's see if we can build a consensus.

What are your thoughts about Islamic domestic abuse? :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_domestic_violence

 

[paarsurrey]

Ezra is the most notable of the authors. Moses did not write the Five Books of Moses.

You are wrong.

Please read the following.

Deuteronomy - Chapter 31:9,24,26-29

9. Then Moses wrote this Torah, and gave it to the priests, the descendants of Levi, who carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and to all the elders of Israel.
24. And it was, when Moses finished writing the words of this Torah in a scroll, until their very completion,
26. "Take this Torah scroll and place it along side the ark of covenant of the Lord, your God, and it will be there as a witness.
27. For I know your rebellious spirit and your stubbornness. Even while I am alive with you today you are rebelling against the Lord, and surely after my death!
28. Assemble to me all the elders of your tribes and your officers, and I will speak these words into their ears, and I will call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses against them.
29. For I know that after my death, you will surely become corrupted, and deviate from the way which I had commanded you. Consequently, the evil will befall you at the end of days, because you did evil in the eyes of the Lord, to provoke Him to anger through the work of your hands.

Deuteronomy - Chapter 31 (Parshah Vayelech) - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

Regards

 

[RabbiO]

You are wrong.

Please read the following.

Deuteronomy - Chapter 31:9,24,26-29.

Well, Avi I don't think you'll be walking off into the mist with Paar like Bogie walked off with Claude Rains at the end of Casablanca.

 

[RabbiO]

You are wrong............

Do people understand that you take the posts of others and reprint them with your responses on your blog, http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/ ?

Just wonderin'

 

[Avi1001]

Well, Avi I don't think you'll be walking off into the mist with Paar like Bogie walked off with Claude Rains at the end of Casablanca.

, its more like Edward G. Robinson.......youzz diirrty rat !!!

 

[dantech]

Avi, because you only follow ethical/moral laws, would I be correct to assume that you:
a) don't eat matzah on Pessah
b) never, ever pray
c) don't fast or go to shul on Kippur

Also, if everything needs to be perfectly understandable and logical, then why are you a theist?

 

[Avi1001]

Dan, I will try to answer your difficult questions:

a) I eat Matzah on Passover. I also eat it many other times during the year. I especially like it with salmon cream cheese. Remember, I am a "cultural Jew".

b) As you know, I am a member of a reform Temple. I pray when I am there. I occasionally pray on my own as well. It is an emotional, irrational act. Please keep in mind that none of us are as logical as Spock on Star Trek (btw Leonard Nimoy was an OJ ).

c) I go to Temple and fast on Yom Kippur. YK is a very interesting holiday from a spiritual perspective. It is a day of deprivation. We learn a lot about our selves when we experience deprivation. Sometimes I cheat on Yom Kippur. When this happens, I do not beat myself up, because I do not believe I am breaking an ethical law. I am just breaking my spiritual experience.

I am a theist because I believe in G-d. I am a reform Jew. My conceptualization of G-d is very different from yours as an Orthodox Jew. I believe in a panentheistic G-d. S/he is non-anthropomorphic.

Now you might say I am not being consistent because if I followed pure logic, I would not do any of the things you say. Please keep in mind that we all do things that are not logical. But when do, there is a price we pay.

You pay a high price, on many levels, to be an OJ. Any btw, I do respect that !

Avi, because you only follow ethical/moral laws, would I be correct to assume that you:
a) don't eat matzah on Pessah
b) never, ever pray
c) don't fast or go to shul on Kippur

Also, if everything needs to be perfectly understandable and logical, then why are you a theist?

 

[dantech]

Dan, I will try to answer your difficult questions:

a) I eat Matzah on Passover. I also eat it many other times during the year. I especially like it with salmon cream cheese. Remember, I am a "cultural Jew".

b) As you know, I am a member of a reform Temple. I pray when I am there. I occasionally pray on my own as well. It is an emotional, irrational act. Please keep in mind that none of us are as logical as Spock on Star Trek (btw Leonard Nimoy was an OJ ).

c) I go to Temple and fast on Yom Kippur. YK is a very interesting holiday from a spiritual perspective. It is a day of deprivation. We learn a lot about our selves when we experience deprivation. Sometimes I cheat on Yom Kippur. When this happens, I do not beat myself up, because I do not believe I am breaking an ethical law. I am just breaking my spiritual experience.

I am a theist because I believe in G-d. I am a reform Jew. My conceptualization of G-d is very different from yours as an Orthodox Jew. I believe in a panentheistic G-d. S/he is non-anthropomorphic.

Now you might say I am not being consistent because if I followed pure logic, I would not do any of the things you say. Please keep in mind that we all do things that are not logical. But when do, there is a price we pay.

You pay a high price, on many levels, to be an OJ. Any btw, I do respect that !

What price would that be?

 

[Avi1001]

What price would that be?

How much time do you spend each day attending to religious ritual? That is your cost. It's a sinking fund calculation.

 

[paarsurrey]

:its more like Edward G. Robinson......

I am not a film actor.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

More about the One-True-God:

“Our God is ................in His Attributes, in His Actions and in His Powers.”

Regards

For the quote given in my post #495 for attributes of One-True-God:

Pages 12-15 “The Will” By Mirza Ghulam Ahmad-The Promised Messiah
The Will

Regards

 

[RabbiO]

Now you might say I am not being consistent because if I followed pure logic, I would not do any of the things you say. Please keep in mind that we all do things that are not logical. But when do, there is a price we pay.

I may be wrong - wouldn't be the first time - but from what you write it appears that you view your, for want of a better term, spirituality as a some kind of character flaw, a deficiency that you would unburden yourself of if you had the wherewithal to do so.

 

[dantech]

I may be wrong - wouldn't be the first time - but from what you write it appears that you view your, for want of a better term, spirituality as a some kind of character flaw, a deficiency that you would unburden yourself of if you had the wherewithal to do so.

At the very least, he considers it a "price to pay", which in other words simply means a waste of time.

 

[Sleeppy]

At the very least, he considers it a "price to pay", which in other words simply means a waste of time.

I doubt he considers it a waste for you. You've spoken up and said that you find worth in what you do. It's the same between any two or more persons.

 

[dantech]

I doubt he considers it a waste for you. You've spoken up and said that you find worth in what you do. It's the same between any two or more persons.

I didn't mean that he thought I was wasting my time. I meant that he knows he is doing illogical stuff, and in doing so, realizes that he is paying a price, which is time.

Please keep in mind that we all do things that are not logical. But when do, there is a price we pay.

 

[paarsurrey]

Dan, I will try to answer your difficult questions:

a) I eat Matzah on Passover. I also eat it many other times during the year. I especially like it with salmon cream cheese. Remember, I am a "cultural Jew".

b) As you know, I am a member of a reform Temple. I pray when I am there. I occasionally pray on my own as well. It is an emotional, irrational act. Please keep in mind that none of us are as logical as Spock on Star Trek (btw Leonard Nimoy was an OJ ).

c) I go to Temple and fast on Yom Kippur. YK is a very interesting holiday from a spiritual perspective. It is a day of deprivation. We learn a lot about our selves when we experience deprivation. Sometimes I cheat on Yom Kippur. When this happens, I do not beat myself up, because I do not believe I am breaking an ethical law. I am just breaking my spiritual experience.

I am a theist because I believe in G-d. I am a reform Jew. My conceptualization of G-d is very different from yours as an Orthodox Jew. I believe in a panentheistic G-d. S/he is non-anthropomorphic.

Now you might say I am not being consistent because if I followed pure logic, I would not do any of the things you say. Please keep in mind that we all do things that are not logical. But when do, there is a price we pay.

You pay a high price, on many levels, to be an OJ. Any btw, I do respect that !

You have every right to be a Theist, Jew, and of reform (with small r as you say) denomination. It is good that you pray to the One-True-God (G-d or YHWH or Yahweh) and have fasting.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

The exact opposite is true. Rather than authorized, reformation is resisted and obstructed by authority. That is why I have to post, out here, in the debate sub-.

You get me wrong friend Avi1001.

I did not mean any state authority or any clergy.

I meant the authority from the One-True-God. The original at the time of a Law giving prophet/messenger as well as the reformation, in the subsequent times for the purpose of reviving the true teachings of the Law giving prophet/messenger, must be authorized by the One-True-God and not in rebellion to the true teachings of the Law giving prophet/messenger.

Else, it would be a deformation or distortion in the name of reformation.

Regards

 

[Avi1001]

You would be correct, Rabbio, except I believe there is a line of intersection between the ethical and spiritual planes. Why for example do we value love over hatred ? Both are aspects of the spirit, are they not ?

I may be wrong - wouldn't be the first time - but from what you write it appears that you view your, for want of a better term, spirituality as a some kind of character flaw, a deficiency that you would unburden yourself of if you had the wherewithal to do so.