Avi's Spiritual and Religious Journey - Part 2

[Tarheeler]

No it leaves us with the fact that iam a Jew. Nothing more and nothing less.

I think that is where a lot of us are today. We're not Reform, Conservative, or Orthodox; we're just Jewish.

 

[paarsurrey]

I think that is where a lot of us are today. We're not Reform, Conservative, or Orthodox; we're just Jewish.

Who is a Jew? Please

Regards

 

[Tarheeler]

Who is a Jew? Please

Regards

There are already numerous threads dealing with that question in the Judaism DIR. Feel free to peruse them at your leisure.

 

[dantech]

I am once again embarrassed that any Jew would post such an arrogant, exclusionary, and elitist post, as "Who is a Jew".

Clearly, anyone who wishes to be a Jew should be welcomed into the religion.

Does the Jew have to receive conversion from a certified Rabbi ? Who certifies the Rabbi ? Do Humanist Rabbi's account ? Renewal Rabbi's ? Reconstructionist ? Reform ? Messianic Rabbi ?

Why would anyone want to place such divisive conditions in a Sticky ? It shows a lack of common sense by a small group of extremists who control the DIR.

Please let me know if you agree that this elitist behavior should not be tolerated in the DIR and we can create a referendum to that affect.

It has nothing to do with elitism. When you're Jewish, you have as a responsibility to try and fix the world. This must be taught. Are doctors and lawyers elitist too?

 

[dantech]

This is one reason Judaism once an open religion when they adopted such creeds they ceased to spread.

Arab Jews if ever dislocated from the Arab-lands had a right to return to their native places; other converts to Judaism in different lands did not have this right to settle there; when they insisted to settle there and were encouraged to do so just because of being coreligionists that was wrong and created hatred. This is another cause of Judaism not being spread.

And there are others...

Regards

You should look up what you just said because my personal experience (or the one of my immediate family) says otherwise.

 

[metis]

The majority of people, both within the Conservative movement and outside it, that I have seen drift away from traditional observance almost all share the hallmarks of severe lack of Jewish education, and/or secularizing apathy, and/or some sort of selfish motivation, like intermarrying. I could probably count on one hand (with fingers left over) the number of people I have ever met who began as Orthodox or Conservative, had good traditional educations, were not intermarried, were interested in remaining participatory and observant in some way, but chose to become Reform for philosophical and theological reasons.

I would suggest that many move for theological reasons, although it would be quite difficult to quantify how many. There simply are different ways to look at the basics of Torah and halacha.

 

[metis]

I think it's enough to simply be Jewish, that is practicing Judaism, and it was confirmed by RabbiO who even said an atheist Jew is still practicing Judaism.

That maybe the case since we tend to put much more emphasis on action than having politically-correct beliefs. Personally, I'd rather deal with an atheist who is compassionate and just than one who insists that his/her path in Judaism is the only true one.

 

[paarsurrey]

I guess it depends on ones idea of the core values of 'Judaism'. look, I'm not going to argue some things here, but some of the practices of so-called. more conservative Judaism can also be looked ay very skeptically, it's a two way street is what I'm saying, when it comes to criticizing actions taken by various Jewish groups. I think it's enough to simply be Jewish, that is practicing Judaism, and it was confirmed by RabbiO who even said an atheist Jew is still practicing Judaism.

Shows the desperation of the Judaism.
Moses would have never liked it.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

That maybe the case since we tend to put much more emphasis on action than having politically-correct beliefs. Personally, I'd rather deal with an atheist who is compassionate and just than one who insists that his/her path in Judaism is the only true one.

To be compassionate with human beings is just another thing; one should be compassionate with every human being irrespective of faith,color or race.

I one admits that one is out of the fold of one's faith; to insist to keep him in the faith just for numbers is quite a different thing.

Regards

 

[sun rise]

I think that is where a lot of us are today. We're not Reform, Conservative, or Orthodox; we're just Jewish.

Finding this thread and noting it's not in a blue DIR, I'll stick my oar in at this point. Hopefully I won't raise something that's already been discussed because this is a long running thread.

There are Jews who identify as religious, at least for the RF "religion" tag and those, like myself, who don't. I won't repeat the "cultural Jew" versus the practitioner of Judaism (subtitled: what is a Jew) discussion because that's one has been not only been beaten to death but has been dispatched every time it's come back as a golem.

My personal tie to Judaism is that I find great resonance with the Baal Shem Tov's "Torah of the Heart" finding it it the same spiritual root as Sufism, Mystic Christianity and other spiritual paths. And I find the same meaning in many places albeit with different wording to the Shema Sh'ma Yis'ra'eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad. (Hear, Oh Israel, the Lord our God, The Lord is One).

Call me one of those "spiritual but not religious" types

As an example of the same fundamental message in different "clothes", this part of a poem from Kabir who lived in India and thus wrote about Hinduism and Islam thus which to me is the same message as the Shema:

...Does Khuda live in the mosque?
Then who lives everywhere?
Is Ram in idols and holy ground?
Have you looked and found him there ?
Hari in the East, Allah in the West—
so you like to dream.
Search in the heart, in the heart alone:
there live Ram and Karim!
Which is false, Koran or Veda?
False is the darkened view.
It's one, one in every body!
How did you make it two?
Every man and woman born,
they're all your forms, says Kabir.
I'm Ram-and-Allah's foolish baby,
he's my guru and pir.

At the same time, I know my point of view is not for everyone. For those that find great meaning in keeping kosher and going to shul, more power to them. For the atheist in search of truth: wonderful - keep searching for the deepest truth.

 

[sun rise]

Shows the desperation of the Judaism.
Moses would have never liked it.

Regards

Nothing of the sort. First, writing about "Judaism" as if it were a person is a mistake. It's as much a mistake to assume that Jews speak with one voice. There's a joke with an element of truth that goes something like: "Two Jews, three opinions." So if you object to one statement by someone, reply to that one opinion.

 

[Avi1001]

I tried to understand the topic
Is it possible to brief on the theme of dialogue
Accept my statement with respect

Yes, Mahasn, this thread represents a diverse collection of thoughts related to spiritual growth and a journey.

You are welcome to join me on my journey. It is one of peace.

 

[paarsurrey]

@ Avi

Hi my Jewish friend!

I would suggest you reading a small book for in-depth understanding of religion; whatever religion one has:

"The Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam"
Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam

It discusses five important questions pertaining to a religion:

•
FIRST QUESTION
o The Physical, Moral and Spiritual States of Man

That is very important for Avi's Spiritual and Religious Journey

Regards

 

[Avi1001]

Thank you very much, Paar, that book looks very interesting. I will read it slowly but surely.

Perhaps we should both convert to: Judeo-Muslim, what do you think ?

@ Avi

Hi my Jewish friend!

I would suggest you reading a small book for in-depth understanding of religion; whatever religion one has:

"The Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam"
Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam

It discusses five important questions pertaining to a religion:

•
FIRST QUESTION
o The Physical, Moral and Spiritual States of Man

That is very important for Avi's Spiritual and Religious Journey

Regards

 

[Buttercup]

I like you, Avi. Just wanted you to know that.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Perhaps we should both convert to: Judeo-Muslim, what do you think ?

No, no, no. I set up a conversion schedule for you right after you friended me. First you have to become Christian evangelical, then Catholic, then Greek orthodox, then LDS. Later if you are still seeking you can become Shia. If that doesn't work you can become Sunni. What have I left out? Oh, Hindu. I will see if I can fit that in somewhere, but you are going to be very busy already. Quite the journey lies ahead of you!

 

[Avi1001]

I like you, Avi. Just wanted you to know that.

Thank you Buttercup. I like you too !

 

[paarsurrey]

Thank you very much, Paar, that book looks very interesting. I will read it slowly but surely.

Perhaps we should both convert to: Judeo-Muslim, what do you think ?

When one goes to the core of religion; differences remove.

Regards

 

[sun rise]

When one goes to the core of religion; differences remove.

Regards

Yes. All rivers lead to the same sea.

 

[Avi1001]

No, no, no. I set up a conversion schedule for you right after you friended me. First you have to become Christian evangelical, then Catholic, then Greek orthodox, then LDS. Later if you are still seeking you can become Shia. If that doesn't work you can become Sunni. What have I left out? Oh, Hindu. I will see if I can fit that in somewhere, but you are going to be very busy already. Quite the journey lies ahead of you!

Yes, indeed, Brickj. This is the main advantage of this forum. We can change our religion as often as we desire. It is as simple as a few keystrokes. Shall we switch to Islamo-Jewish next ?