Avi's Spiritual and Religious Journey - Part 2

[Avi1001]

What is your concept of an extremist? Please

Regards

Howdy, Paar. I would say anyone who cuts and pastes scripture into Avi's thread is an extremist......know anyone like that ?

 

[Avi1001]

Hey, Flankie, it looks like you are keen on Zardoz too.

Apostate....bo..shmostate...just be polite to visitors to the DIR like sunrise, and you won't break any of the DIR rules.

Describing someone as an extremist is not name calling. You have called me much worse.

Which is why there are Reform Jews and even Zardoz.

Zardoz.

Holy **** is it really so difficult to understand?
Its the Judaism DIR. In the DIR ideas relevant to Judaism are being talked about.
Its not the Jewish DIR which encompasses a wider variety of themes and sometimes even apostates.

Its not quantum physics.

Is there a special reason you always resort to name calling? You started this thread but this doesnt give you the right to engage in this kind of libel.

And no a stupid little smiley doesnt make the whole sentence better.

 

[Avi1001]

Offhand, it looks like Avi's defintion of extremist is anyone that disagrees with Avi.

Not quite, Akivah, neither Metis or punkd are extremists !

 

[Avi1001]

It is outrageous that you were treated this way in a Judaism DIR. I think you should be apologized to by the DIR folks !

My "offense" was to answer a question that had been posed which others agreed with.

Part of the problem is that people have very different ideas about what Judaism is. For example Are Jews a Nation or a Religion? | Jewish Virtual Library And other sites such as What Is "Jewish?"

And you have beliefs that go from Orthodox all the way to Humanistic Judaism which has a separate sub DIR.

And there is a question in the DIR "Who is a Jew" not "What is Judaism"

And the rule was clearly spelled out: -that comment did not say Judaism but "Identify as a Jew".

And my post included:

So it's not rocket science. The rule is that I would have to put the word "Jew" in the Religion label tag to post in the DIR.

 

[Avi1001]

Listen, if I can be accepted as a "Jew" by my fellow Jews, then just about anyone can. And for those who can't accept me as such, here's my message to them:

We accept you as a Jew, Metis, over here in "Avi's" thread !

 

[Avi1001]

Avi to respond , please.
Regards

Thank you, Paar.....here is a special gift for you....:menorah:

 

[Levite]

I would say, in general, that a humanist, like sunrise, is probably more moral and ethical than the folks in the DIR.

Well, I think it's fairly shallow to generalize about the morality of people based on philosophy or religious persuasion, rather than by actually knowing something about individuals personally; but you'll do as you please, I'm sure.

I doubt he would try to get me thrown out of the DIR just because I disagree with him.

As I recall, no one forced you to leave the DIR because of a disagreement. It was decided by the majority of the DIR members that to post in the DIR as a member rather than as a guest, it was required that the poster honestly self-identify as a Jew in their "Religion" label, and it was also decided that the DIR should remain blue as a safe space for Jews, rather than be green and allow universal posting. You disliked both those decisions, and left in a huff to go start this thread.

I know I personally never had a problem with you posting in the DIR, so long as your "Religion" label identified you as a Jew. And, in my opinion, if you kept your "Religion" label as Jewish, and did not deliberately contravene the rules of a blue-status DIR, I would have no problem if you posted in the Judaism DIR now, and would support your right to do so if anyone else objected.

Also, I doubt he would try to bully or intimidate me into giving power to the existing authority in the DIR. In short, he would behave like a mensch.

Several other times you have also tried to imply that things that have gone on in the DIR regarding the rules, or for that matter things in Jewish movements or communities you dislike, or things I personally have said or done arise from tacit or covert desires for power or manipulation by tyrannical authority.

The decisions regarding the rules you dislike in the DIR were arrived at through consensus. Members were asked for their input, they gave it, it did not agree with what you wanted. Just because it annoys you that you cannot do whatever you want, whenever you want, wherever you want does not mean that others are attempting to deprive you of power. It just means that occasionally, you have to respect the needs and opinions of others, as well as your own.

Likewise, the fact that you do not like the philosophy or theology of other Jewish communities does not make them out to get you, or out to take your power, any more than it makes them extremists.

And as for me personally, I could not be less interested in your power. Of all the many things that moved me to devote my life to the rabbinate, instead of to some career where it would be easier to find jobs, or where employment might be more lucrative, I assure you, power was not on the list at all. I know quite a lot of rabbis quite well-- I was raised by them, I grew up with them, I am friends and colleagues with them-- and I have yet to meet a single one that became a rabbi in order to gain and wield power.

If you want people to act like menschen to you, try to act like a mensch to them first.

 

[sun rise]

Zardoz is cool. That's why they made him Staff. Only the best posters make it all the way to Staff. I don't know if you realize, he is a Messianic Jew, so he knows a lot about Conservative and Orthodox Judaism. And I don't think he has threatened me directly yet.

And some would claim that a Messianic Jew is not really a Jew but really a Christian

As far as I'm concerned, in the vast majority of cases whatever someone calls him- or her-self is just fine with me. Semantic hairsplitting can be fun but I'm a bit busy to indulge in it.

 

[Flankerl]

Hey, Flankie, it looks like you are keen on Zardoz too.

Actually yeah. He's nice.

Apostate....bo..shmostate...just be polite to visitors to the DIR like sunrise, and you won't break any of the DIR rules.

Well i didnt break any rules.

Describing someone as an extremist is not name calling. You have called me much worse.

Like?

My "offense" was to answer a question that had been posed which others agreed with.

Part of the problem is that people have very different ideas about what Judaism is. For example Are Jews a Nation or a Religion? | Jewish Virtual Library And other sites such as What Is "Jewish?"

And you have beliefs that go from Orthodox all the way to Humanistic Judaism which has a separate sub DIR.

And there is a question in the DIR "Who is a Jew" not "What is Judaism"

And the rule was clearly spelled out: -that comment did not say Judaism but "Identify as a Jew".

And my post included:

So it's not rocket science. The rule is that I would have to put the word "Jew" in the Religion label tag to post in the DIR.

Okay you really dont seem to understand it.
Its the Judaism DIR. Judaism is a Religion which is part of a general Jewish Culture.
Yet its possible that Jews might not believe in Judaism. They might be Christians, Muslims or any other Religion.
Its completely ridiculous to hypothetically give them the right to spread their ideas which have nothing to do with Judaism in an Forum which is specifically made to basically portray Judaism just because they are Jews from a Jewish POV.

You know he is kinda inactive today but there is a user named Caladan. Nice fellow, likes to play in the sand and the kind of guy who made my grandparents emigrate from Israel. Anyway he's religiously not Jewish. Guess what there never ever was a Problem with him in the DIR. He wrote there nice posts and everything was alright.

Because you know, we totally hate non-observant Jews in the DIR. :sarcastic

 

[Avi1001]

Yes, it is true, one thing I have observed is that clergy tend to be very politically controlling and into power. I would also say you are a bit condescending....but it's ok, under the rules of the debate forum I am permitted to push back on you. No harm, no foul.

As far as the other issues you bring up, I am perfectly fine to remain in the debate forum and conduct my activities from here. As you know, other independent minded Jews have been expunged from their DIR's, Spinoza comes to mind and Moses Mendalsohn, Mordechi Kaplan, Sherwine Wine, Zalmann Schector-Shalomi are others that come to mind. Outspoken reformers have always been ostracized...that is our history.

Anyway, you are free to dominate and control the DIR. Gifted posters like sunrise will find a way to get the word out.

Well, I think it's fairly shallow to generalize about the morality of people based on philosophy or religious persuasion, rather than by actually knowing something about individuals personally; but you'll do as you please, I'm sure.

As I recall, no one forced you to leave the DIR because of a disagreement. It was decided by the majority of the DIR members that to post in the DIR as a member rather than as a guest, it was required that the poster honestly self-identify as a Jew in their "Religion" label, and it was also decided that the DIR should remain blue as a safe space for Jews, rather than be green and allow universal posting. You disliked both those decisions, and left in a huff to go start this thread.

I know I personally never had a problem with you posting in the DIR, so long as your "Religion" label identified you as a Jew. And, in my opinion, if you kept your "Religion" label as Jewish, and did not deliberately contravene the rules of a blue-status DIR, I would have no problem if you posted in the Judaism DIR now, and would support your right to do so if anyone else objected.

Several other times you have also tried to imply that things that have gone on in the DIR regarding the rules, or for that matter things in Jewish movements or communities you dislike, or things I personally have said or done arise from tacit or covert desires for power or manipulation by tyrannical authority.

The decisions regarding the rules you dislike in the DIR were arrived at through consensus. Members were asked for their input, they gave it, it did not agree with what you wanted. Just because it annoys you that you cannot do whatever you want, whenever you want, wherever you want does not mean that others are attempting to deprive you of power. It just means that occasionally, you have to respect the needs and opinions of others, as well as your own.

Likewise, the fact that you do not like the philosophy or theology of other Jewish communities does not make them out to get you, or out to take your power, any more than it makes them extremists.

And as for me personally, I could not be less interested in your power. Of all the many things that moved me to devote my life to the rabbinate, instead of to some career where it would be easier to find jobs, or where employment might be more lucrative, I assure you, power was not on the list at all. I know quite a lot of rabbis quite well-- I was raised by them, I grew up with them, I am friends and colleagues with them-- and I have yet to meet a single one that became a rabbi in order to gain and wield power.

If you want people to act like menschen to you, try to act like a mensch to them first.

 

[Avi1001]

And some would claim that a Messianic Jew is not really a Jew but really a Christian

As far as I'm concerned, in the vast majority of cases whatever someone calls him- or her-self is just fine with me. Semantic hairsplitting can be fun but I'm a bit busy to indulge in it.

I am no judge of Messianic Jews. But it would be nice if some of them would defend my right as a reform Jew (small r) to speak my mind, openly and honestly in the DIR. Maybe we have to wait for the coming of the Messiah for that.

 

[Avi1001]

Well i didnt break any rules.

I cannot comment on moderation issues here in the open forum.....lets just say, we have a full record of all your posts which I have reviewed in totality and found difficult to find even one that could be considered logical.

 

[Flankerl]

So i never called you anything worse than an extremist.

kthxbye

 

[Desert Snake]

Avi is reform, not sure why that isn't "Judaism", I don't think he's rude either.

 

[Flankerl]

Considering the Liberal/Reform movement even in the USA he aint Liberal/Reform even there.

 

[Avi1001]

Considering the Liberal/Reform movement even in the USA he aint Liberal/Reform even there.

Correct, I am reform (with a small r).

kthnxbye

 

[Desert Snake]

Correct, I am reform (with a small r).

kthnxbye

..........

You're thinking outside the lines.

 

[Desert Snake]

kthnxbye

.............

 

[Avi1001]

..........

You're thinking outside the lines.

disciple, we make a good team. Lets kick some extremist b#tt !

 

[Desert Snake]

And some would claim that a Messianic Jew is not really a Jew but really a Christian

As far as I'm concerned, in the vast majority of cases whatever someone calls him- or her-self is just fine with me. Semantic hairsplitting can be fun but I'm a bit busy to indulge in it.

Yep, agreed. This is the net after all, we have to take people at their word to an extent, not to mention, how 'clear cut' is much of religious adherence, for many it isn't some specific denom, but rather 'Christian', or Jewish'..etc.