Avi's Spiritual and Religious Journey - Part 2

[sun rise]

Correct, I am reform (with a small r).

kthnxbye

Maybe you wrote the answer before, but I'm curious what a "small r" reform Jew such as yourself believes in?

 

[paarsurrey]

Maybe you wrote the answer before, but I'm curious what a "small r" reform Jew such as yourself believes in?

My be it means Avi is yet little reformed and has a long way to travel yet.

Regards

 

[Akivah]

Wow paarsurrey, you are just itching to convert Avi, aren't you?

 

[Avi1001]

Maybe you wrote the answer before, but I'm curious what a "small r" reform Jew such as yourself believes in?

Sunrise, I am pleased you asked. Here are the "little r's:

Reform Jew = Classical Reform, outgrowth from European Enlightenment, Moses Mendalsohn (the Third Moshe), German reform movement, rejection of most ritual, Sunday Services, secular dress, organ music in the service, temples designed to resemble Churches, German assimilationism.

Renewal Jew = Zalman Schector-Shalomi Movement, emphasizes interfaith, liberal Jewish thought, spirituality, Eco-kashrut, his views of Integral Halacha transform traditional Halacha, music in the service.

Reconstructionist Jew = Mordeci Kaplan's movement emphasizes Judaism as a civilization, rationality, explanation of miracles, rejection of chosenness.

Humanistic Jew - atheistic Judaism with a cultural Jewish perspective.

Collectively, all these forms of reform Judaism are described as reform Judaism with a "small r".

My own syncretic view of Judaism seeks the most logical aspects of all these "little r" forms of reform Judaism.

And, reform Judaism is the largest and fastest growing movement in Judaism. The reason is because....the others are all extremists !

Thanks for asking...you are welcome to continue this discussion. I am sure other reform Jews, including Metis and in the past, punkd, could add to this discussion. Btw, punkd is now a Buddhist, but still has the heart and mind of a reform Jew.

 

[Avi1001]

My be it means Avi is yet little reformed and has a long way to travel yet.

Regards

Eeerrrr, Paar, can you type.....google ?

 

[Avi1001]

Wow paarsurrey, you are just itching to convert Avi, aren't you?

Yes, Akivah, I am just nanometers away from becoming....a Judeo-Muslim.

 

[paarsurrey]

Eeerrrr, Paar, can you type.....google ?

ya

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Wow paarsurrey, you are just itching to convert Avi, aren't you?

Well, I cannot stop him if he resolves to do it, purely his discretion.
I think he thinks that I am converting to Judaism.
I cannot stop him from such thoughts. Can I?

I admire Moses and Muhammad, both of them.

Regards

 

[sun rise]

Sunrise, I am pleased you asked. Here are the "little r's:

Reform Jew = Classical Reform, outgrowth from European Enlightenment, Moses Mendalsohn (the Third Moshe), German reform movement, rejection of most ritual, Sunday Services, secular dress, organ music in the service, temples designed to resemble Churches, German assimilationism.

Renewal Jew = Zalman Schector-Shalomi Movement, emphasizes interfaith, liberal Jewish thought, spirituality, Eco-kashrut, his views of Integral Halacha transform traditional Halacha, music in the service.

Reconstructionist Jew = Mordeci Kaplan's movement emphasizes Judaism as a civilization, rationality, explanation of miracles, rejection of chosenness.

Humanistic Jew - atheistic Judaism with a cultural Jewish perspective.

Collectively, all these forms of reform Judaism are described as reform Judaism with a "small r".

My own syncretic view of Judaism seeks the most logical aspects of all these "little r" forms of reform Judaism.

And, reform Judaism is the largest and fastest growing movement in Judaism. The reason is because....the others are all extremists !

Thanks for asking...you are welcome to continue this discussion. I am sure other reform Jews, including Metis and in the past, punkd, could add to this discussion. Btw, punkd is now a Buddhist, but still has the heart and mind of a reform Jew.

First: a joke. My parents were atheists but my cousins attended a Conservative Shul. I learned from them that Orthodox and Reform Jews were extremists - literally - being on distant ends of theology and practice. Conservative Judaism, was, of course, properly in the middle avoiding the error of being at the extreme.

Now to the followup question: how does your search for logic play out in practice. Can you give me an example?

 

[sun rise]

Yes, Akivah, I am just nanometers away from becoming....a Judeo-Muslim.

Taking your joke seriously:

all you need to do is to accept the verse in the Quran, 17:104, which states (in some translations) that Allah has decreed the State of Israel to exist because we are living in the end times and you'll be all set:

And We said to the Children of Israel after him: "Dwell in the land, then, when the final and the last promise comes near [i.e. the Day of Resurrection or the descent of Christ ['Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) on the earth]. We shall bring you altogether as mixed crowd (gathered out of various nations).[Tafsir Al-Qurtub, Vol. 10, Page 338]

And, by the way, I'm in bad shape. To me, Truth wears many different coats, some beautiful, some threadbare; all with the name "religion". That shows what sad shape I'm in: I just can't make up my mind which is right and which is wrong.

 

[paarsurrey]

Taking your joke seriously:

all you need to do is to accept the verse in the Quran, 17:104, which states (in some translations) that Allah has decreed the State of Israel to exist because we are living in the end times and you'll be all set:



And, by the way, I'm in bad shape. To me, Truth wears many different coats, some beautiful, some threadbare; all with the name "religion". That shows what sad shape I'm in: I just can't make up my mind which is right and which is wrong.

I don't say to one or to Avi or to Akivah or to (Flankerl, disciple, Levite, metis, Brickjectivity, Buttercup, dantech, xkatz, Jayhawker Soule, RabbiO, CMike, WonderWho, Sleeppy, sunrise123) to get converted.


All of them I think are Jews, whatever their denomination, with whom I got introduced in this thread from page-36 and on in one way or the other. Our friendship is very fragile and I don’t want to embark on a new venture.

Nevertheless one has observed that the verses of Quran:

And We said to the Children of Israel after him: "Dwell in the land, then, when the final and the last promise comes near [i.e. the Day of Resurrection or the descent of Christ ['Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) on the earth]. We shall bring you altogether as mixed crowd (gathered out of various nations)

have since been fulfilled in letter and spirit.

And this happened after when Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 claimed being the Promised Messiah (Moshiach).

I want to maitanin this friendship intact. My best wishes to all mentioned in this post.

Regards

 

[Avi1001]

The joke is no joke. Levite tries to argue his brand of Conservadox is the middle ground between the Orthodox and extremist libs like me. But you won't see me condoning raids on innocent Gaza citizens...sorry, but it is obvious who the real extremists are.

The search for logic plays out in every aspect of life. Except for being too ritually conservative, Mordechi Kaplan was a genius. How else after 2,000 years of chosenness could he cast it in a logical perspective. How could the Red Sea physically part unless there was some logical way to explain it. And what else could be the strength of Judaism if not that we are a civilization ? You see it's all about logic...but if you are an extremist, it all looks so unfair.

First: a joke. My parents were atheists but my cousins attended a Conservative Shul. I learned from them that Orthodox and Reform Jews were extremists - literally - being on distant ends of theology and practice. Conservative Judaism, was, of course, properly in the middle avoiding the error of being at the extreme.

Now to the followup question: how does your search for logic play out in practice. Can you give me an example?

 

[Avi1001]

If I become a Judeo-Muslim, it's no more that I believe the Quran than I believe the Torah.

It would be because we share similar ethical and moral principles ! These are the most important parts of religion.

Taking your joke seriously:

all you need to do is to accept the verse in the Quran, 17:104, which states (in some translations) that Allah has decreed the State of Israel to exist because we are living in the end times and you'll be all set:

And, by the way, I'm in bad shape. To me, Truth wears many different coats, some beautiful, some threadbare; all with the name "religion". That shows what sad shape I'm in: I just can't make up my mind which is right and which is wrong.

 

[Avi1001]

It is true, Paar, they are all Jews here in this forum, except you and I....I am a Judeo-Muslim.....and you are an Islamo-Jew.

I don't say to one or to Avi or to Akivah or to (Flankerl, disciple, Levite, metis, Brickjectivity, Buttercup, dantech, xkatz, Jayhawker Soule, RabbiO, CMike, WonderWho, Sleeppy, sunrise123) to get converted.

All of them I think are Jews, whatever their denomination, with whom I got introduced in this thread from page-36 and on in one way or the other. Our friendship is very fragile and I don’t want to embark on a new venture.

Nevertheless one has observed that the verses of Quran:

have since been fulfilled in letter and spirit.

And this happened after when Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 claimed being the Promised Messiah (Moshiach).

I want to maitanin this friendship intact. My best wishes to all mentioned in this post.

Regards

 

[sun rise]

The joke is no joke. Levite tries to argue his brand of Conservadox is the middle ground between the Orthodox and extremist libs like me. But you won't see me condoning raids on innocent Gaza citizens...sorry, but it is obvious who the real extremists are.

The search for logic plays out in every aspect of life. Except for being too ritually conservative, Mordechi Kaplan was a genius. How else after 2,000 years of chosenness could he cast it in a logical perspective. How could the Red Sea physically part unless there was some logical way to explain it. And what else could be the strength of Judaism if not that we are a civilization ? You see it's all about logic...but if you are an extremist, it all looks so unfair.

Are you familiar with the "Reed Sea" discovery.

What's more, the Book of Exodus includes some nice meteorological details: "(T)he Lord drove the sea away all night with a strong east wind and turned the sea-bed into dry land."


"If you are going to match the biblical account, you need the wind from the east," ...
...

He found that a steady 63-mile-per-hour (100-kilometer-per-hour) wind over a digitally reconstructed east-west running lake at the Mediterranean end of the Nile, near today's Port Said, would push the water west to the far end of the lake, as well as south, up the river.


The model showed that this would expose wide mud flats where the river entered the lake and leave a land bridge high and dry for four hours.


The hardest part of the study, said Drews, was reconstructing the geography of the area. He chose the area known today as Lake Manzala because it seems to fit with the Exodus story. It is oriented so that an east wind can actually blow across it lengthwise and push water to one side -- something that is not the case for the north-south running Red Sea.

 

[Avi1001]

Are you familiar with the "Reed Sea" discovery.

I like this part of the article:
......"If there is a miracle, it is that we are able to describe such events with numbers."

 

[Avi1001]

I have a new thought....lets relegate the DIR to important issues...like what food do we like and how to dress properly on the holidays.

And we can discuss the less important issues, like ethical and moral behavior in "Avi's" thread.

What are some ethical and moral issues of importance today ?

Israel's role in Gaza ?

The US and Israel roles dealing with ISIS ?

Israel in the West Bank ?

Israel in Golan Heights ?

Other ethical and moral dilemmas ?

 

[Desert Snake]

I have a new thought....lets relegate the DIR to important issues...like what food do we like and how to dress properly on the holidays.

And we can discuss the less important issues, like ethical and moral behavior in "Avi's" thread.

What are some ethical and moral issues of importance today ?

Israel's role in Gaza ?

The US and Israel roles dealing with ISIS ?

Israel in the West Bank ?

Israel in Golan Heights ?

Other ethical and moral dilemmas ?

These always, to me, end up as arguments in the "what is the alternative" bracket. I am for a 'Palestinian state as much as anyone, however there can't be one if it is not compatible with the other elements that it ITSELF has been pushing out of the area for a long period. It's sort of like, 'hey, I have proven I can't be a good neighbor, but I really want that autonomous state now". Uh, no, doesn't work like that.

 

[Avi1001]

Ok, disciple...lets see if our resident, Muslim, Paar, agrees with your analysis.

These always, to me, end up as arguments in the "what is the alternative" bracket. I am for a 'Palestinian state as much as anyone, however there can't be one if it is not compatible with the other elements that it ITSELF has been pushing out of the area for a long period. It's sort of like, 'hey, I have proven I can't be a good neighbor, but I really want that autonomous state now". Uh, no, doesn't work like that.

 

[paarsurrey]

I have a new thought....lets relegate the DIR to important issues...like what food do we like and how to dress properly on the holidays.

And we can discuss the less important issues, like ethical and moral behavior in "Avi's" thread.

What are some ethical and moral issues of importance today ?

Israel's role in Gaza ?

The US and Israel roles dealing with ISIS ?

Israel in the West Bank ?

Israel in Golan Heights ?

Other ethical and moral dilemmas ?

Pertinent to this thread is ethical , moral and spiritual issues.
I will participate only in them.

Regards