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Ayran is synonymous with Sanskrit, and what all happened to the people who speak the Tamil language

River Sea

Well-Known Member
"Oh"-thun is the more accurate pronunciation imo.

ie Othan

Edit:

@The Hammer

About the song in the video @The Hammer shared, click to expand quote to see video: I'm understanding that the timeline of Othan was around c. 790–c. 1100 CE. CE is an abbreviation for Common Era. It means the same as AD (Anno Domini). I looked online.

What is the interpretation in English and the meaning of video?

Screenshot of video I notice "as above, so below." That's from one arm upward and the other arm downward. Am I understanding correctly?

1725492179765.png
 
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The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
@The Hammer

About the song in the video @The Hammer shared, click to expand quote to see video: I'm understanding that the timeline of Othan was around c. 790–c. 1100 CE. CE is an abbreviation for Common Era. It means the same as AD (Anno Domini). I looked online.

What is the interpretation in English and the meaning of video?

Screenshot of video I notice "as above, so below." That's from one arm upward and the other arm downward. Am I understanding correctly?

View attachment 96798

It's just a verse from the Havamal meant to embolden warriors. Some of the Songs Odin learned.

"An eleventh I know, | if needs I must lead
To the fight my
long-loved friends;
I sing in the shields, | and in strength they go
Whole to the field of fight,
Whole from the field of fight,
And whole they come thence home."


"A fifth I know,
If I see from afar
An arrow fly 'gainst the folk;
It flies not so swift
That I stop it not,
If ever my eyes behold it"

[Hariuha laþu laukar gakar alu ole lule laukar]
Þat kann ek it ellifta:
ef ek skal til orrostu
leiða langvini,
und randir ek gel,
en þeir með ríki fara
heilir hildar til,
heilir hildi frá,
koma þeir heilir hvaðan.
Þat kann ek it fimmta:
ef ek sé af fári skotinn
flein í folki vaða,
fýgr-a hann svá stinnt,
at ek stöðvig-a-k,
ef ek hann sjónum of sék.
 

River Sea

Well-Known Member
@Aupmanyav You explained you are Kashmiri Brahmin. Your descent probably is from the Kamboja tribe, which merged with the Aryans. The line is from a Kamboja sage, Upamanyu.

I'm using Merge from now on. What letters are used for merge?

(I'm using modern words when I write)

OIT theory: means only Indians in India, and later Indians left India.
AIT theory: means people from out of India invaded India.

What are the letters for people out of India who merge in with Indians in India?
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
They termed themselves as 'Aryans' and 'Pancha janas' (five tribes).
Traditionally the five tribes were Anu, Druhyu, Puru, Turvasa and Yadu.
Kambojas had not yet arrived.

So off topic question how the heck did "Aryan" become associated with Nazism and "white supremacy "?

Edit: Partially answered my own question


"The Aryan race is a pseudoscientific historical race concept that emerged in the late-19th century to describe people who descend from the Proto-Indo-Europeans as a racial grouping.[1][2] The terminology derives from the historical usage of Aryan, used by modern Indo-Iranians as an epithet of "noble". Anthropological, historical, and archaeological evidence does not support the validity of this concept.[3][4]

The concept derives from the notion that the original speakers of the Proto-Indo-European language were distinct progenitors of a superior specimen of humankind,[5][6] and that their descendants up to the present day constitute either a distinctive race or a sub-race of the Caucasian race, alongside the Semitic race and the Hamitic race.[7] This taxonomic approach to categorizing human population groups is now considered to be misguided and biologically meaningless due to the close genetic similarity and complex interrelationships between these groups.[8][9][10]"

 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
So off topic question how the heck did "Aryan" become associated with Nazism and "white supremacy "?

"The Aryan race is a pseudoscientific historical race concept that emerged in the late-19th century to describe people who descend from the Proto-Indo-Europeans as a racial grouping. The terminology derives from the historical usage of Aryan, used by modern Indo-Iranians as an epithet of "noble". Anthropological, historical, and archaeological evidence does not support the validity of this concept.

The concept derives from the notion that the original speakers of the Proto-Indo-European language were distinct progenitors of a superior specimen of humankind, and that their descendants up to the present day constitute either a distinctive race or a sub-race of the Caucasian race, alongside the Semitic race and the Hamitic race. This taxonomic approach to categorizing human population groups is now considered to be misguided and biologically meaningless due to the close genetic similarity and complex interrelationships between these groups."

The question should be addressed to Neo-Nazis since Adolphe or Joseph are no longer around.
There is nothing 'scientific' about Aryans as a race, they were a people. A look at DNA analysis can surprise every person.
The Jews (most Nobel laureates), the Chinese, the Japanese also have done extremely well.
US and China got equal number of Olympic gold medals (40), Japan was third with 20.
The rest all what you say is OK. :)
 

River Sea

Well-Known Member
The question should be addressed to Neo-Nazis since Adolphe or Joseph are no longer around.
There is nothing 'scientific' about Aryans as a race, they were a people. A look at DNA analysis can surprise every person.
The Jews (most Nobel laureates), the Chinese, the Japanese also have done extremely well.
US and China got equal number of Olympic gold medals (40), Japan was third with 20.
The rest all what you say is OK. :)

I could be wrong with this thinking as I process this. Keep that in mind. I learn when wrong as well.

@Aupmanyav I wonder if you move to Germany and announce to people you are Aryan, you might not be able to have this same freedom to use the word Aryan as you do in India, due to the word Aryan having been stolen. Can people in Germany use the word Aryan? Also, if I understand correctly, Germany has fallen under Abrahamic control, as some of their taxes go to the Abrahamic religion called Christianity.

Has Germany fallen to the Abrahamic religion, as Jealous YHWH trample over this area, and when? It happened in India (lost some land, how come?); however, Pakistan doesn't use the YHWH name, so how would Jealous YHWH be within Pakistan then? Who's the Jealous YHWH in Pakistan as Pakistan is of Abrahamic religion?

Germany lost all their land to the Abrahamic religions because people paid some of their taxes to the Abrahamic YHWH. Through Christianity, which is also Jealous, how come? How come Germany can't pay taxes to the Norse? German is now called Abrahamic land because Abrahamic religion YHWH took their land and got some of their taxes. Please help me understand how Germany has fallen to YHWH, who is Jealous.

If I understand correctly, @The Hammer
What happened to Norse thinking? Is it because Germany had fallen to Abrahamic Jealous YHWH? Was Norse thinking less than YHWH?

How come to whom has stolen this word (Aryan) couldn't have come up with their own word? How many other words were stolen?

What is the difference between stolen words and borrowing loanwords?

About India:
I'm still not sure if I'm for or against Gandhi. Was Gandhi fallen for YHWH, who's Jealous, or has Gandhi not fallen for YHWH, who's Jealous? Is Gandhi an Aryan or not Aryan? To those who have fallen for YHWH who's Jealous, are you Jealous?
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
If I understand correctly, @The Hammer
What happened to Norse thinking? Is it because Germany had fallen to Abrahamic Jealous YHWH? Was Norse thinking less than YHWH?
The Norse and Germany have nothing in common besides root language.

As for the rest of what you wrote? :shrug:
Gonna have to pass on dissecting that.
 

River Sea

Well-Known Member
Wadi Hammamat is "The Land of Havilah" that is described in Genesis 2. The river that "encircles" or borders this "Land of Havilah" is the Nile.

Why in Egypt? There is an understanding that Egypt traded with India 5-6 thousand years ago.

Who in India? We do not know for certain, only that trade did occur between the two groups.

How did they trade? Indians built ships, and I believe they would follow the coast of the Arabian Gulf, travel up the Red Sea and visit the port on one side of the Wadi Hammamat. Once they unload their goods on the Rea Sea port, the ships travel back to India.

@GoodAttention
How did they trade when having different languages? Were there interpreters? Did the interpreters cause the borrowed loanwords to happen? Indians built ships? What were these ships built from, and how did they run these ships? Did they burn wood to cause the turning of to move the ship, similar to how trains are run, or did they sail these ships? Are ships called sailboats? Later in this post, I learned yes, ships are called sailboats, and they use wind.


I only use photos to see boats, ships, and sailboats. There are some Tamil words if you click to go to this Quora post. Thread Called: What are the Tamil words for ships and boats?

Boat.
1725559594018.png


Boat.
1725559642363.png


Boat
1725559838787.png


What is the difference between a sailboat and a ship?

What about an ark? How do people run an ark?

Uses wind to sail a ship that's a sailboat. So that means a sailboat is a ship.

1725559924611.png


Boat
1725560008674.png
 

River Sea

Well-Known Member
They termed themselves as 'Aryans' and 'Pancha janas' (five tribes).
Traditionally the five tribes were Anu, Druhyu, Puru, Turvasa and Yadu.
Kambojas had not yet arrived.

What did I find? When looking up Kambojas? Can I tell when reading if this post is OIT theory or AIT theory or unknown letters for merge or none of these theories? I'm going to read it now, and I'll let you know which theory or none of these theories this post is written about. I'll post my thoughts below this reading. Can I do this? Do I have the abilities to do this? We will find out.


1725563970692.png


Post from Kamboj kaum

Kamboj kaum

History of Great Kamboh & Kamboj Caste:
Kamboja or Kamvoja is a kingdom grouped among the western kingdoms in the epic Mahabharata. Western kingdoms were cold countries and people used blankets. They also reared sheep and drank sheep milk. Kamboja Horses were of excellent quality. Their horses and even horsemen were used in the wars between kings of Aryavarta (North Indian kingdoms where Vedic culture of the norm, prevailed). Their soldiers used to aid both the parties engaged in a battle on a payment basis. In the Kurukshetra War, there were Kamboja soldiers on both Pandava side and Kaurava side. In the epic Mahabharata, Kamboja is sometimes referred to as a republic or a kingless country where elected chiefs among the people ruled the country. A kingless country is othervise called Arashtra or Aratta. This name is sometimes collectively used to denote many other western kingdoms like Madra, Kekeya and Gandhara. Another collective name denoting the western kingdoms is Bahika ( Vahika, Vahlika, Bahlika or Vahika) meaning outsider. This is to denote that their culture was outside or different from the Vedic culture, prevailed in the Kuru, Panchala and other kingdoms of the Gangatic plain. The Kamboja country closest to Aryavarta was the one with Rajapura as its capital, which is identified as Rajauri of Kashmir. Other than this country, the epic mentions about a Kamboja close to Darada Kingdom, an eastern Kamboja and a Parama Kamboja country in the far north, all famous for excellent breeds of horses. Another country Aswaka (the horse country) also is related to Kamboja, being either a province of Parama Kamboja or a neighbouring country. Some historians believes that Afganistan is a name derived from the name Aswaka Stana meaning, the land of horses. A clan of tribess called Kinnaras were believed to be the Kamboja horse warriors. Kinnaras were described to be horse-headed humans. This could be an
exaggeration of their extra ordinary skill in cavelry warfare. In Kali Yuga, Kambojas had many colonial states in central India, inculding the Asmaka or Aswaka of Maharashtra state. Cambodia, a modern country of South East Asia, is another colony of Kambojas during the time of recorded history. The word Kam can mean 'woolen cloth' (Kambala), denoting the dress of the people. Another meaning of the word Kam is 'place' or 'region'. It is surprising to note that there are many places in Asia, Europe and especially around Mount Meru of Tanzania in Africa with the word Kam in it, denoting the meaning place or region, hinting towards the African origin of human beings (homo sapiens).

Capital: Rajapura (Rajauri, Kashmir)
References in Mahabharata

Among the tribes of the north are the Mlecchas, and the Kruras, the Yavanas, the Chinas, the Kamvojas, the Darunas, and many Mleccha tribes; the Sukritvahas, the Kulatthas, the Hunas, and the Parasikas; the Ramanas, and the Dasamalikas. Kamboja mentioned as a kingdom in ancient India (Bharata Varsha). (6,9)

The migration of Kambojas

The Yamas, Kamvojas, Gandharas, Kiratas and Barbaras. All of them were characterised by practices alien to the normal culture. In the Krita age they were nowhere on earth. It is from the Treta that they have had their origin and began to multiply. When the terrible period came, joining Treta and the Dwapara, the Kshatriyas, approaching one another, engaged themselves in battle. (12,206)

I read the post.
My response. Well, towards the bottom of the post, it did claim migration of Kambojas, but I can't tell which theory or none of the theories, because I saw the word battle, war further up the post with other words. However, are these people out of India, yet maybe not out of India because maybe there are no borders then as of the more area of land that India covered? I still wonder if naming comes from what type of soil, and if soil of land changes, then change the name to help with navigation. I don't know the answer to which theory or none of the theories.


What do you think the answer is?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
@Aupmanyav I wonder if you move to Germany and announce to people you are Aryan, you might not be able to have this same freedom to use the word Aryan as you do in India, due to the word Aryan having been stolen. Can people in Germany use the word Aryan?

What is the difference between stolen words and borrowing loanwords?

About India: I'm still not sure if I'm for or against Gandhi. Was Gandhi fallen for YHWH, who's Jealous, or has Gandhi not fallen for YHWH, who's Jealous? Is Gandhi an Aryan or not Aryan? To those who have fallen for YHWH who's Jealous, are you Jealous?
Whether they love it or hate it, Europeans have mixed with Ind-Europeans and speak variations of Indo-Europian language.
:) For sometime, I was a member of SKADI, a neo-Nazi forum, but they did not like my kind of Aryan-ness. I was kicked out.
If they want, they can use it, without making it Nazi.
European history is a different question and has its own forum.

:) Borrowing is OK, it may show that the other person trusts you to give something of his/her own. Stealing is a moral and legal crime.

Gandhi believed in mixing up things (I don't). Gandhi may have had some Aryan admixture. In ancient India, Gujarat was considered one of the five Dravidian regions. Kutch/Gujarat have had migrations from Baluchistan and Sistan, Iran.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
@River Sea , I said get your information from WIKIPEDIA and not from FACEBOOK.

However, I differ with the Wikipedia introduction:
"The Kambojas were a southeastern Iranian people[a] who inhabited the northeastern most part of the territory populated by Iranian tribes, which bordered the Indian lands."

If they were southeastern Iranians, how come they are mentioned in northwestern most part of India, Gandhara and Kashmir. That is a dichotomy. IMHO, Kambojas were Central Asians.

1725592848444.png
 

GoodAttention

Well-Known Member
@GoodAttention
How did they trade when having different languages? Were there interpreters? Did the interpreters cause the borrowed loanwords to happen? Indians built ships? What were these ships built from, and how did they run these ships? Did they burn wood to cause the turning of to move the ship, similar to how trains are run, or did they sail these ships? Are ships called sailboats? Later in this post, I learned yes, ships are called sailboats, and they use wind.


I only use photos to see boats, ships, and sailboats. There are some Tamil words if you click to go to this Quora post. Thread Called: What are the Tamil words for ships and boats?

Boat.
View attachment 96820

Boat.
View attachment 96821

Boat
View attachment 96822

What is the difference between a sailboat and a ship?

What about an ark? How do people run an ark?

Uses wind to sail a ship that's a sailboat. So that means a sailboat is a ship.

View attachment 96823

Boat
View attachment 96824

I think small fishing boats got more sophisticated, as well as metallurgy which would have been essential. Trade would have been easy then, I think people bought and sold how ever much they could carry, and if you make enough effort you can learn another's language.

Rather than currency, I would imagine time was of the essence, and protecting the traders also. It would have been a very close collaboration.

I think the currency used was actually sea shells!

In Tamil there are many but one is கப்பல் (Kappal)

I believe one word in Hebrew is (kibul) קִבּוּל
 
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River Sea

Well-Known Member
I think the currency used was actually sea shells!

@GoodAttention
Very interesting to use seashells for currency. Were there people whose occupation was to gather seashells so that others could use them as currency? Do you know what this occupation was called? Or were they called traders? Because they're gathering seashells, which are the actual source of currency. Is this before trading happens, so these people are called what?

I think small fishing boats got more sophisticated, as well as metallurgy which would have been essential. Trade would have been easy then, I think people bought and sold how ever much they could carry, and if you make enough effort you can learn another's language.

Rather than currency, I would imagine time was of the essence, and protecting the traders also. It would have been a very close collaboration.

@GoodAttention

At first you explained traders would be easy, then you explained traders needed to be protected.

You wrote, "I would imagine time was of the essence, and protecting the traders also." What does this mean protecting the traders, from what?

How does time of the essence protect the traders?

How does metallurgy make it easier on the traders compared to before using metallurgies, such as using seashells for currency, so during the time of using seashells as currency, traders needed to be protected?

Can you show me why this is? How did metallurgy make it safer for the traders?
 

River Sea

Well-Known Member
Keep in mind this is to help me comprehend. Please correct areas that I had mistaken.

@GoodAttention @Bharat Jhunjhunwala

When @Bharat Jhunjhunwala shows invades previously before trading, how manage to overcome this invading situation so they could trade?

You @GoodAttention would write about trading, so how do they greet before trading? How? What was their greeting culture? It wasn't invaded before trade, was it?

What I notice seeing words invading then trade. How does one invade then trade? I would think that's not a way to trade. Surely there's a better way to trade? Keep this in mind when reading this post.

Let's see if I comprehend between @Bharat Jhunjhunwala and @Aupmanyav about ancient India.

I Found 3 letters for Aryan Migration Theory: (AMT)

  • Aryan Migration Theory (AMT)
  • The Out of India theory (OIT)
  • The Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT)
  • Unknown letters for trading only.

Let's see if I comprehend between @Bharat Jhunjhunwala and @Aupmanyav

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala - Out of India Theory (OIT)
@Aupmanyav - Aryan Migration Theory (AMT)

Let's go further and see if I comprehend.

(1) @Aupmanyav View

Aryan Migration Theory (AMT) from the perspective Aryan as Indo-Aryan (1500 BCE)

@Aupmanyav claims to be a Kashmiri Brahmin and descent probably from the Kamboja tribe, which merged with the Aryans. The line is from a Kamboja sage, Upamanyu. Aryan referring to Indo-Aryan.

(2) @Bharat Jhunjhunwala View

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala claims 1500 BCE Out of India theory (OIT) and no Aryan migration theory (AMT) because around 300 BCE any relations with Aryans (Proto-Indo-European) were more about trading only and no merging.

@Aupmanyav explains Aryan was Indo-Aryan (1,500 BCE) so no European yet.

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala explains (300 BCE) Proto-Indo-European (Aryan) due to People only trading and not merging.

Here's 3 quotes below from @Bharat Jhunjhunwala showing around 300 BCE and around 1500 BCE: However, first I explain my questions about the quotes, so the quotes are below my questions.

Notice from quote below, I see the word invaded for around 300 BCE. If invaded, then that would be Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT). Because what does that mean invaded?

Yet in 1500 BCE, where were the Yadavas who were already living in ancient India and who left with Moses (Krishna)? Who are the Sungas, Kushanas?

Are you @Bharat Jhunjhunwala suggesting that Sungas and Kushanas also went with the Yadavas when 'OIT' left ancient India and traveled to Israel (modern name)?

Then the Sungas and Kushanas returned back to Ancient India during 300 BCE, and were the Aryans due to mixing DNA with the Europeans? And that's the Proto-Indo-European? Would this be Aryan Migration Theory (AMT)?

Yet I see you, @Bharat Jhunjhunwala used the word invaded; that would be the Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT) then. How come you, @Bharat Jhunjhunwala used the word invade for?

I'm confused when I see the word invade. Maybe invade doesn't always mean AIT because people could invade and trade, but how do they trade when invade?

3 Quotes to read

The merging did take place in 300 BCE between the Sungas, Kushanas, and other people who invaded from the northwest but there was no invasion or merging around 1500 BCE. The whole idea of Aryan invasion at that time has been thrown out of the window. The difference between Sungas, and Kushanas merging in India, and Moses leading the Israelites from India to Israel is that Moses never assimilated his people among the Canaanites. He kept a separate identity, and that has led to a lot of violence.

The only ground for suggesting Aryan invasion is the spread of the Proto-Indo-European language. This spread could easily have taken place by migrants or trade.

My understanding is that there was no movement of Aryan people. The Proto-Indo-European language may have traveled with merchants or otherwise to Indus Valley, and here it was adopted and used to modify the Indus language into Brahmi and other languages of India. So, the whole idea of Aryans merging with tribes in India is misplaced, according to me.

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala hadn't ever used the word Indo-Aryan. How come?

Aryan refers to either Indo-Aryan or Indo-European.

A reminder then read below

Aryan Migration Theory (AMT)
The Out of India theory (OIT)
The Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT)

Perhaps the Indian Aryans termed the indigenous people as 'Dravidas' accepting that they too knew a lot.
You can see from @Aupmanyav quote that later in another thread, seeing the word Indian Aryans, termed the indigenous people as Dravidas.
 
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GoodAttention

Well-Known Member
Keep in mind this is to help me comprehend. Please correct areas that I had mistaken.

You @GoodAttention would write about trading, so how do they greet before trading? How? What was their greeting culture? It wasn't invaded before trade, was it?

What I notice seeing words invading then trade. How does one invade then trade? I would think that's not a way to trade. Surely there's a better way to trade? Keep this in mind when reading this post.

The timeline I am focused on is the following

(1) 3000 BCE and prior, specifically trade between Indian communinities and Ancient Egypt.
(2) 4.2ky event, and the movements of people around this time
(3) 1900 BCE when the migrations both into and out of, the Indus valley started

Any reference to dates later than this, example 1500 BCE or thereabouts, and any connection to the Exodus book of the Hebrew scriptures, I make zero comment on. I don't know about trade in ancient times, hence why I am also asking the questions.
 

River Sea

Well-Known Member
Doubtful, I'm not sure how one would connect 3000BCE Egypt to Old Norse.
I just random grab anything, and didn't read it. so hope you find use of it - then I read it and what did I find?


Civilization and the Environment:
The Norse and Ancient Egypt
Baard Pettersen

This paper will compare the Norse civilization to the ancient Egyptian civilization, with a focus on each civilization’s environment, to show what their similarities and differences meant for how the civilizations developed. THE NORSE The Norse were a people who lived in the Scandinavian region in Europe between the 8th and 11th century. The mountainous region of Scandinavia created a natural border between the chiefdoms, while also isolating them from the rest of the world. They were also surrounded by ocean, creating another layer of separation. During the 11th century, Scandinavia adopted Christianity and started modeling themselves on the government and cultures of the rest of Europe, changing their cultural identities from pagan to Catholic Europeans. The Norse were seafarers, tradesmen, herders and farmers. They raised sheep, pigs, goats and cattle, and wool from the sheep were the most common material used in their clothes. In Scandinavia, the ground consisted of a lot of granite, making farming difficult. Wheat and barley were the most common crops used in farming, but the harsh climate limited the effectiveness of farming in the region, causing the people to look outside of the region for supplies. The difficulty of farming, coupled with an increase in population, lead to raids across Europe, as there simply weren’t enough resources in Scandinavia to supply everyone (Marcus 1956). While “the Norse” is the name for the people of the Norse region, the raiders themselves are referred to as “Vikings.” A mythology based upon raids on the rest of Europe, northern Africa and Asia Minor became dominant in the region, and these aspects from Norse mythology are the most remembered today, creating an image of a violent and ruthless people. While the Vikings definitely were violent and ruthless, they were considered a people separate from the rest of the Norse, who didn’t turn to violence to supply themselves. Moreover, raiding wasn't the only option available to the Norse. Due to their mountainous environment, one of the few available methods for transport was the sea. The Norse therefore became experts at travelling and navigating the oceans in their famous longships and Knarr boats (Curry 2013). The development of ships hadn’t reached a point in Europe yet where sea travel became normal and preferred, so this opened up the world to the Norse and allowed them to travel mostly unhindered through Europe and neighboring regions. This also allowed the various settlements of Scandinavia to be connected to each other, but to a lesser degree than if they could stay connected through land routes, since sea travel has several restrictions. Some of these restrictions were weather, a limited number of boats, and limitations on how much these boats can carry. Trade became vital to the Norse and tradesmen became their own social class. The men would travel the oceans trading, while the women stayed home and managed the farms and animals (McGovern 1990).
Service (1975) explores the origins of civilization and considers the formation of a centralized government to be the starting point for a civilization. This centralized government came as a result of a surplus of food that allowed people to focus on other endeavors besides gathering more food. However, in relation to the Norse, this description doesn’t match. One of the main driving forces for the expansion of the Norse was a lack of food and resources in their home region, and they were not a unified state, but were instead divided into several chiefdoms. Despite the Norse not being united under one state, I still consider them a civilization because they developed their own unique culture—including imagery and religion— that was shared across settlements, as well as similar government structures and laws. The Norse might not necessarily have managed to create a surplus of food for the populace, but Marcus (1956) argues that the lack of food was a result of a population explosion in the area, which changed the civilization into the one we know today, instead of creating it from scratch. Service (1975) claims that civilization is the centralization of power into a unified state, but although the Norse weren’t unified, the various tribes had lawmen and leaders, and they shared the same laws across the settlements. This coupled with my reasons stated above make me think of the Norse as being a fragmented civilization, which I think is similar to the city states of Greece and the ancient Harappan civilization, which were divided into city-states, but is still considered their own civilizations. ANCIENT EGYPT Egypt is a civilization that has existed for over 5000 years and is considered the second oldest civilization in the world, giving it a long history that would be difficult to summarize in this paper. That is why I will focus on Ancient Egypt, which ends with the start of the Ptolemaic kingdom of Egypt in 323 BCE, and compare this period of Egypt with the Norse. The civilization is located right between several deserts, creating a natural barrier between it and the rest of the world. The area is so harsh that we still speculate as to how humanity first managed to migrate out of Africa, since they would have to pass through these deserts. Passing right through this region is the river Nile, whose banks are suitable for large-scale farming and allows for the creation of a food surplus. It’s thanks to the Nile that the Egyptian civilization exists at all, as without it there would be few opportunities for people to sustain themselves in the region (Hassan, 1997). Wheat and barley were grown along the Nile, creating a surplus of food. This surplus, combined with the natural barriers that restricted trade, allowed the civilization to focus on centralization. Ancient Egypt started off as city states that eventually became unified under a pharaoh. These pharaohs managed to create an image of themselves as god-kings, making them the sole rulers of Egypt, when they weren’t being overthrown (Wenke, 1991). The centralization of power in Ancient Egypt allowed Egyptian leaders to organize massive workforces, which led to the creation of some astonishing pieces of construction that still stand today; the Pyramids are the most prominent example. Ancient Egyptians developed a culture that focused on the dead, with the belief that death is just a passage between two different ways of life. Imagery from this period still survives to this day and is used frequently in all forms of media. The period of Ancient Egypt ended when Alexander the Great conquered the nation in 332 BCE and declared himself pharaoh, creating a new period in Egyptian history.

CONCLUSION We have looked at how an isolating environment can shape civilizations in very different ways. In cases where the isolation extends to within the region itself, as opposed to surrounding the region, it can prevent centralization from occurring, creating several smaller states with similar culture and values instead of a unified state. In Scandinavia, the mountains made centralization difficult. The Norse felt the need to go out into the world and trade or raid for what they needed because their isolation was so bad it couldn’t support the whole population, creating a culture that, in one way, focused on trade and exploration, and in another way, focused on taking what they needed and wanted through force. The Norse also emigrated en masse in several ways to the British Isles, France, Iceland and even North America because there simply wasn’t any more space in Scandinavia due to the infertile mountains. In Ancient Egypt’s case, the river Nile served as a connector for the various citystates, allowing The ancient Egyptian civilization was surrounded by desert on three sides, with an ocean separating the civilization to the north. This isolated Egypt from the rest of the world, but unlike Scandinavia, the Nile allowed for farming on a large scale. A surplus of food allowed for unity and the development of a government that could support several cities and settlements across a vast area. Egypt therefore had an opportunity to centralize itself. Isolation within a civilization can fragment the populace and create a government system more akin to chiefdoms rather than one state. Isolation from other civilizations can make the populace focus on internal politics instead of looking outwards like the Norse did. This can lead to unification of the region and the creation of a well-organized civilization.

REFERENCES Curry, A. (2013). The First Vikings. Archaeology, 66(4), 24-29. http://www.jstor.org/stable/24363873. Hassan, F. A. (1997). The Dynamics of a Riverine Civilization: A Geoarchaeological Perspective on the Nile Valley, Egypt. World Archaeology, 29(1), 51-74. www.jstor.org/stable/124996. Marcus, G. J. (1956). The Norse Emigration to the Faeroe Islands. The English Historical Review, 71(278), 56-61. www.jstor.org/stable/558625. McGovern, T. H. (1990). The Archaeology of the Norse North Atlantic. Annual Review of Anthropology, 19, 331-51. http://www.jstor.org/stable/2155969. Service, E R. (1975). Origins of the State and Civilization: The Process of Cultural Evolution. New York: W. W. Norton & Company. Wenke, R. J. (1991). The Evolution of Early Egyptian Civilization: Issues and Evidence. Journal of World Prehistory, 5(3), 279-329. www.jstor.org/stable/25800600.
 

River Sea

Well-Known Member
(1) 3000 BCE and prior, specifically trade between Indian communinities and Ancient Egypt.
(2) 4.2ky event, and the movements of people around this time
(3) 1900 BCE when the migrations both into and out of, the Indus valley started

Aryan Migration Theory (AMT)
The Out of India theory (OIT)
The Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT)

I wish all these videos were spiritual only or about history situations. I was listening to this video often and finally interpret it - through google translate - awkward because wanted to share, because I love this style of music. To bad it's not about history or and spirituality.

Cengiz Özkan - Bir Ay Doğar İlk Akşamdan Geceden I Ah İstanbul © 2000 Kalan Müzik


I wish all these videos were spiritual only or about history situations. I was listening to this video often and finally interpret it - through google translate

Translation of poem

A moon rises from the first evening, from the night, what am I doing
What am I doing at night
The light hits the window from the chimney
The mountains are winter, my traveler is cold, how can I do it
Did you stay awake from yesterday's night, what am I doing at night

Wake up, wake up, lover, embrace me in your bosom
The mountains are winter, my traveler is cold, how can I do it
Wake up, wake up, lover, embrace me in your bosom
Mountains are forbidden, do not open my wound, I am miserable

You carried me over from the high mountain top, what am I doing, lover
You made me fall into endless troubles
The mountains are winter, my traveler is cold, how can I do it
Since your base heaven has become dense in me, what am I doing

Why did you stray me from the right path
The mountains are winter, my traveler is cold, I am miserable
Why did you stray from the right path me
Mountains are forbidden, I am miserable

It comes from below, not empty-handed, what am I, what am I, not empty
I will say, I will say, my heart is not nice
Mountains are winter, my passenger is cold, how can I do it
They gave one beautiful person to another, what am I, what am I,
they gave it

Head pillow is not equal to its own
Mountains are winter, my passenger is cold, how can I do it
Head pillow is not equal to its own
Mountains are forbidden, I am miserable
* * *

Director: Cengiz Özkan
Editing: Adnan Koç
Recording: Hasan Karakılıç
Studio: System
Mix: Hasan Karakılıç
Mastering: Cem Büyükuzun
Photographs: Ali İhtiyar
 
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