Exactly. It is a silly hippie pipe dream and against human nature, which includes war and tribalism, and that is proven by scientific research.
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Building Bridges to the Unity of Humanity
- Thread starter TransmutingSoul
- Start date
The ancient Chinese Book of Changes presents the ‘uncreated world’ of 'heaven' permeating and weaving the ‘created world’ of nature. In the uncreated world arrangement, the polarities are perfect, but in the created world the polarities become all mixed up, resulting in constant change and motion, with only the fire/water polarity remaining, but shifted from the horizontal axis in the spirit dimension, to take up the vertical axis in nature.
It's like Plato’s cave where we see only the shadows of the true reality. Light is the shadow of God.
The created world of nature is ever changing, never still. In nature we are either growing or dying. There is no standstill in the timespace dimension of nature, that ends in death of all creatures, and even of worlds and suns. Existence is the interplay between spirit and nature.
The greater wheel of Spirit turns the lesser wheel of nature, but is not turned by it. The Book of Changes tries to show how the 'superior man' should live.
The eternal dimension of spirit surrounds and contains and permeates the imperfect world of nature, as a house contains a room. Perhaps there are infinite other ‘created’ rooms or dimensions within the uncreated house of spirit, as different as snowflakes. ‘My Father’s house has many mansions.’
Christ is eternal spirit incarnate as perfect nature. The perfect man and the sinlesss new Adam, the son of the Father, the way and the truth and the life. Pinned upon the horizontal axis, suspended on the vertical between earth and heaven. The Trinity is a symbolic way to try to show in human terms the relationship between the uncreated world of spirit and the created world of nature.
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TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
"everybody start minding their own business and treat other people with dignity".
You see, not fighting wars is actually far easier then the opposite. Just don't do anything. Just don't shoot people.
Waging was is what actually takes effort... it takes a weapons industry, training soldiers, command centers, armored vehicles, airplanes, marine vessels, etc and a LOT of money to pay for it all.
It's far easier and takes no effort at all to NOT do such things.
The problem is that many people's ideologies (both religious and otherwise) literally prevent them from acting in this way.
So I don't see it happening any time soon.
Nature abhors a vacuum. Standstill is stagnation in nature. People will always want to do more, go further. New Napoleans will always 'point towards a foreign shore and captivate the hearts of men'
Done With Bonaparte
Mark Knopfler
We've paid in hell since Moscow burned
As Cossacks tear us piece by piece
Our dead are strewn a hundred leagues
Though death would be a sweet release
And our grande armée is dressed in rags
A frozen starving beggar band
Like rats we steal each other's scraps
Fall to fighting hand to hand
Save my soul from evil, Lord
And heal this soldier's heart
I'll trust in thee to keep me, Lord
I'm done with Bonaparte
What dreams he made for us to dream
Spanish skies, Egyptian sands
The world was ours, we marched upon
Our little Corporal's command
And I lost an eye at Austerlitz
The sabre slash yet gives me pain
My one true love awaits me still
The flower of the aquitaine
I pray for her who prays for me
A safe return to my belle France
We prayed these wars would end all wars
In war we know is no romance
And I pray our child will never see
A little Corporal again
Point toward a foreign shore
Captivate the hearts of men
Mark Knopfler
We've paid in hell since Moscow burned
As Cossacks tear us piece by piece
Our dead are strewn a hundred leagues
Though death would be a sweet release
And our grande armée is dressed in rags
A frozen starving beggar band
Like rats we steal each other's scraps
Fall to fighting hand to hand
Save my soul from evil, Lord
And heal this soldier's heart
I'll trust in thee to keep me, Lord
I'm done with Bonaparte
What dreams he made for us to dream
Spanish skies, Egyptian sands
The world was ours, we marched upon
Our little Corporal's command
And I lost an eye at Austerlitz
The sabre slash yet gives me pain
My one true love awaits me still
The flower of the aquitaine
I pray for her who prays for me
A safe return to my belle France
We prayed these wars would end all wars
In war we know is no romance
And I pray our child will never see
A little Corporal again
Point toward a foreign shore
Captivate the hearts of men
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ppp
Well-Known Member
Almost all of nature is a vacuum
From troubled earth we look up to the silent purity of the eternal stars of heaven. But a closer approach reveals the thunder of exploding suns and whirling galaxies, forever spiralling and spinning, expanding to infinity, obedient to forces that we try to name but which we can never hope to fully know or understand.
Should I be quiet now, for a bit?
Should I be quiet now, for a bit?
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CG Didymus
Veteran Member
At least Christians have a story about a "Son of God" child being born. Since it is in only two Gospels and told by people that weren't there, I'd have to say, for me, there is a chance it is a made up story. But... for Baha'is, they believe in the virgin birth. So, even for them, Jesus was a child given unto the people of Israel.
Was the man that was to take the title "Baha'u'llah" ever portrayed as being a "child" given unto the people of Israel? Because that's who those verses are about.
Did Baha'u'llah establish any peace any where in the world while he was alive? Did he have his throne in Jerusalem? Did he establish a Jewish state in Israel?
So, you have some things that point to your prophet being "The Messiah" and there's many reasons to doubt that he was.
The metaphysical Christ returns in kingship and glory at the end of time, when the material dimension of nature merges back into the perfect uncreated world of spirit. It makes no sense to talk of a temporal returning human Christ in the station of the Father.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The verse says "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:"
The verse does not say anything about a "child" given unto the people of Israel.
The verse says of the Prince of Peace: "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end."
The verse does not say that the Prince of Peace will establish peace during his lifetime.
The Bible does not say that the Messiah will have His throne in Jerusalem.
The Throne was set in Elam, not in Jerusalem, as many Christians believe.
The Lord was prophesied to set His throne in Elam, from which the Messiah would rule.
Elam is modern-day Persia, where Baha’u’llah was born.
Jeremiah 49:38 And I will set my throne in Elam, and will destroy from thence the king and the princes, saith the LORD.
When that verse was recorded Elam existed and the verses for the coming of the Lord refer to the latter days.
Jeremiah 49:39 But it shall come to pass in the latter days, that I will bring again the captivity of Elam, saith the LORD.
Where does the Bible say that the Messiah will establish a Jewish state in Israel?
There is no reason to doubt that Baha'u'llah was the Messiah of the latter days, since he fulfilled all the OT prophecies.
You will look for any excuse to believe that Baha'u'llah was not the Messiah, but you cannot use Isaiah 9:6-7 to disprove that.
Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
Bahais believe that. Baha’u’llah was the Prince of Peace and the Lord of hosts and that world peace will be established during His religious dispensation. Please note that the prophecy does not say 'when' peace will be established, but where it says there shall be no end to the peace that indicates that it won't happen all at once but rather it will unfold gradually. That is exactly what has been happening.
The same is true for the government. It says that there shall be 'no end' to the government which means it will begin and be established gradually and continue to develop over time. The government will be more developed in the future as the prophecy says (increase in government).
Baha’u’llah set up a 'system of government' and it has already been established among the Baha’is. The institutions of that government are fully operational, but still in their infancy. What we now refer to as Local Spiritual assemblies (LSAs) and will eventually evolve into what will be called Houses of Justice.
I rest my case.
McBell
Unbound
to me, the real question is: "Why are you so stuck on a failed plan?"
The issue is, life is an effort, to make and keep peace, will take great effort.
It takes effort to live the virtues over reverting to animal instincts.
We are now breaching the spiritual side on man.
Regards Tony
The plan has not failed, mankind has not yet bombed each other enough to know they need to pick up the plan and run with it.
Hang on, it appears we are getting close to when we will need to make better choices.
Regards Tony
That is a great misunderstanding of that prophecy. @Trailblazer gave you some thoughts, I have other thoughts to add, but sorry out of time, work calls.
Regards Tony
Altfish
Veteran Member
Sorry, but ever since Trump used a similar phrase, this doesn't hold water.
McBell
Unbound
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Why do you think it is a failed plan?
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
It has only been 248 years since this nation declared its independence, and 225 years since we established our bill of rights. We are still moving forward as a nation, and I will continue to honor our rights for this effort. The bridge envisioned between us and everyone else is in question. Will your efforts affect our rights as a fee people? If so, I will resist the limitation of our rights and hold true to the political ecosystem to which I belong. Not that we are at all enemies. I love my Bahai brothers and sisters and in this we can make this world more accommodating to peaceful relations.
Made for adversity we are. Iron does sharpen iron, after all.
Bahá'í can be exact Bible literalists, to the word when the opportunituy suits, and then become Bible allegorists and Bible symbolists and Bible cherry-pickers when another opportunity suits, depending on the opportunity. And despite apparently never having actually read the Bible properly for the subtlety of context that is so important in treating of any writing
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