Building Bridges to the Unity of Humanity

[CG Didymus]

I think with weapons like nukes and such, the way the world will agree to disarm won’t be because they have all become spiritual which is highly unlikely, but that these weapons will be used and many cities will be destroyed which will trigger a worldwide earthquake where even more major cities are turned to dust. Everyone will be a huge loser.

All people needed was spears and bows and arrows and knifes and swords and they could go destroy cities.

Without a spiritual change some people will still want to conquer and destroy others for wealth and power.

How is it that God changed you? Why can't he do that for everybody? And if God doesn't do it for everybody, the power hungry people will keep doing what they are doing. And they will continue to amass the people and weapons needed to conquer others.

. Billions will die.I believe under such circumstances an understanding would be quickly reached to get rid of them and the law of collective security be enforced worldwide so that if anyone tries to manufacture again, the world will unite and destroy that government.

So, the ones that don't want "billions" to die will push for disarmament and will put down anyone who tries to manufacture them again? And destroy them? That's still a war. And what are they, the good guys, going to use as weapons to enforce this "collective" security?

I believe world disarmament will not be a gesture of goodwill but a matter of our very survival. This is the only real scenario I see world disarmament taking place.

Weapons have been invented to aid in the survival of people... But it's been the survival of attacks from other people. So, they had to be stronger than their enemies.

There were no nukes when Baha'u'llah was around. Now there is. What happened? Where did people get the knowledge to invent them? Why did God allow people to invent nukes? Knowing they weren't spiritually mature enough to handle it?

Would any of us give a gun to a child and expect them not to use it?

 

[CG Didymus]

Baha'u'llah is the one promised by all religions, he has fulfilled all their prophecies

Here's some quotes from Baha'i Teachings.org on the return of Krishna as Kalki.

The fact that Baha’u’llah did not literally fulfill the Kalki prophecies is actually for the better—because it means no war, no bloodshed, the advent of new spiritual teachings and new social laws, best suited for this day and age.​

In the comments it says...

Bill Carsley​

Jan 24, 2018​

-

Mr Buck, I understand your position, and I respect your sincere efforts to reconcile popular Baha'i beliefs with the stubborn facts concerning the prophecies of other religions...​

​

Those of us who are unable to make such a faith commitment to Baha'u'llah and the Baha'i Faith do not "see" what you see. I wish you well, sir.​

The response from the author, Christopher Buck...

You're quite right: “Your article demonstrates strikingly that there is essentially nothing in the Kalki prophecies that even remotely points to Baha'u'llah.” That was intentional! This proves an important point regarding Baha'i interpretation of prophecies generally: that Baha'u'llah fulfills most prophecies spiritually, not literally. This point is made throughout the Baha'i Writings. A further point is that the Kalki apocalypse projects a sectarian and violent end-times scenario. So when Baha'is proclaim that Baha'u'llah is "Kalki," this is an entirely spiritual symbolic identification, where "Kalki" represents Hindu hopes for a better world, which Baha'u'llah offers—far better than the Kalki prophecies themselves!​

​

That is not fulfilling a prophecy. It is finding a way to make the prophecy into what Mr. Buck, as a Baha'i, wants the prophecy to mean.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Here's some quotes from Baha'i Teachings.org on the return of Krishna as Kalki.

The fact that Baha’u’llah did not literally fulfill the Kalki prophecies is actually for the better—because it means no war, no bloodshed, the advent of new spiritual teachings and new social laws, best suited for this day and age.​

In the comments it says...

Bill Carsley​

Jan 24, 2018​

-

Mr Buck, I understand your position, and I respect your sincere efforts to reconcile popular Baha'i beliefs with the stubborn facts concerning the prophecies of other religions...​

​

Those of us who are unable to make such a faith commitment to Baha'u'llah and the Baha'i Faith do not "see" what you see. I wish you well, sir.​

The response from the author, Christopher Buck...

You're quite right: “Your article demonstrates strikingly that there is essentially nothing in the Kalki prophecies that even remotely points to Baha'u'llah.” That was intentional! This proves an important point regarding Baha'i interpretation of prophecies generally: that Baha'u'llah fulfills most prophecies spiritually, not literally. This point is made throughout the Baha'i Writings. A further point is that the Kalki apocalypse projects a sectarian and violent end-times scenario. So when Baha'is proclaim that Baha'u'llah is "Kalki," this is an entirely spiritual symbolic identification, where "Kalki" represents Hindu hopes for a better world, which Baha'u'llah offers—far better than the Kalki prophecies themselves!​

​

That is not fulfilling a prophecy. It is finding a way to make the prophecy into what Mr. Buck, as a Baha'i, wants the prophecy to mean.

One person's view on this topic. Subjects such as this need greater input from a vast amount of people, all wanting to find the truth.

One can always find issues with private interpretation. Remember you asked me to give it a go, I offered some things I found interesting and then you also picked that to pieces. I personally have no issue with that, if it was in a group discussion and other better views are offered.

The issue with Kalki prophecy would be its accuracy as to the source and understanding of the metephor.

A more recent example is that of the "Seal of the Prophets". Such a simple statement, yet so blinding to billions. A simple Metephor, so misunderstood, as a seal does not denote finality.

Another example, the "Resurrection of Christ". A simple metephor when balanced with Jesus advice about the flesh, but given an impossible expectation for people to overcome.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

I voted "yes I have a plan to table".

Although I don't think of it as a plan to the kind of dystopian unity the Baha'i have to offer.

I think as humans at least as an intermediate step might be able to agree to an intergovernmental tax panel to oversee that the oligarchs are not able to dodge tax by off shore-ing their accounts.

It would at least initially not have any input into what human rights are which could still be decided either at the national level or by the UN separately.

I actually see the greatest obstacle to such a process being the US under a Trump/unchecked capitalist dictatorship.

Thoughts?

 

[Balthazzar]

That is why we have no Authority of Interpretation, your response a great example of why we have not got that authority, the unity of the Faith would soon be rendered erroneous.

I offered in the post that it was what I found interesting, not that it was a fact and that it was my thoughts.

I see it differently and no one can say what I see is wrong or right, as I do not even take that stance, I did not state that as fact.

What I will state, is that Prophecy is timeless.

Baha'u'llah is the one promised by all religions, he has fulfilled all their prophecies, yet many are still to become manifested.

Great examples.

Thy Kingdom Come, thy Will be done on earth as it is in heaven, is the Kingdom every Messenger brings, and yet it seems to never come.

The One fold and One shepherd, still yet to come, yet every Messenger brings this exact same opportunity.

This is explaind in the Kitab-i-iqan.

Regards Tony

How many works are attributed to your teacher and how do they bridge the divides existing between the many cultures? Does your teacher acknowledge other teachers like Newton, Plato, Aristotle, etc. and if so, aren't or rather didn't they contribute an equal portion as the many others who have endeavored to go against the grain of current day social acceptance?

I ask for this reason: It would seem a very dangerous thing for any would be teacher to impose a Messiah complex on the many.

 

[CG Didymus]

One can always find issues with private interpretation. Remember you asked me to give it a go, I offered some things I found interesting and then you also picked that to pieces.

That was an article on Baha'i Teaching. Org by a Baha'i. That's not very private. And where did I ask you to come up with an interpretation of Daniel's friends being thrown in a furnace? Something that was not written as a prophetic message but as a real event that happened.

Now I have asked Baha'is to explain how they start counting the 2300 mornings and evening prophecy from Daniel on the year one of the decrees to rebuild Jerusalem went out? When in Daniel it seems to be talking about counting the time when a desecration of the temple happens. Not the rebuilding of Jerusalem.

Here' a Christian interpretation of it....

Daniel 8 speaks of 2,300 days in a prophecy concerning a persecution of the Jewish people during the intertestamental period. Similarly, in Revelation 11 and 12, John mentions 1,260 days in two prophecies concerning another persecution of the Jews during the end times. The main differences between these two prophecies are 1) Daniel’s has been fulfilled, and John’s has not; and 2) Daniel predicts the actions of Antiochus Epiphanes, and John predicts those of the Antichrist.​

​

The prophecy of the 2,300 days (“evenings and mornings”) is found in Daniel 8:13–14:​

​

“Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, ‘How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?’ He said to me, ‘It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.’”​

​

The time period covered, 2,300 days, figures to about 6 1/3 years. We believe this prophecy was fulfilled before the birth of Christ, during the reign of the Seleucid king Antiochus IV (Epiphanes). Antiochus desecrated the temple in Jerusalem and severely persecuted the Jews from about September 171/170 BC to December 165/164 BC. When Antiochus died, the Jews purified and rededicated the temple, just as Daniel had predicted. These events are commemorated in the celebration of Hanukkah.​

The issue with Kalki prophecy would be its accuracy as to the source and understanding of the metephor.

Ah yes... the "understanding" of the metaphor. Well then anything goes. Baha'is can make any prophecy or any verse in any Scriptures some kind of metaphor. Like three Woes being Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah. Although it's really difficult to make that claim fit the context. And especially when there are more "woes" later in Revelation, and they are not made to mean any "manifestation." Why the inconsistency in interpretation?

Rev 18:10 “‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,​

you mighty city of Babylon!​

In one hour your doom has come!’​

​

16 “‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,​

dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet,​

and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!​

17 In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!’​

​

19“‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,​

where all who had ships on the sea​

became rich through her wealth!​

In one hour she has been brought to ruin!’​

But these "woes" are manifestation?

Rev 8:13 As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: “Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!”​

Another example, the "Resurrection of Christ". A simple metephor when balanced with Jesus advice about the flesh, but given an impossible expectation for people to overcome.

Hmmm? A story about what happened to Jesus after he was killed. A story that all four Gospels told. And, apparently, because in one verse in one Gospel it has Jesus saying that the flesh amounts to nothing, you take that to mean the resurrection story is a metaphor?

That's just creative interpreting. Really creative. Let me try one.

Let's see... The virgin birth... Coming out of a woman shows the human side of Jesus. And by not having a human father shows his divinity.

Hey, that kind of works! So, the virgin birth wasn't a real event, it was just a metaphor. Gee thanks Tony.

Oops, Baha'is say that the virgin birth really happened? Come on you guys... make up your mind. Is all this stuff literally true or all metaphor?

Oh wait, I get it... Depends. Depends on what you want the verses to be. Virgin birth? That's okay. Literal. Resurrection? No, that's metaphor.

Yeah, now I understand. It's whatever the Baha'i say it is. And that's okay for you. But is it okay if I question how and why you are interpreting things like that?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How many works are attributed to your teacher and how do they bridge the divides existing between the many cultures? Does your teacher acknowledge other teachers like Newton, Plato, Aristotle, etc. and if so, aren't or rather didn't they contribute an equal portion as the many others who have endeavored to go against the grain of current day social acceptance?

I ask for this reason: It would seem a very dangerous thing for any would be teacher to impose a Messiah complex on the many.

Firstly a Messenger never imposes their station of an Annointed One on to any person. They one and all offer a choice.

Muhammad said, "There is no Compulsion in Religion" and alao left guidance to the beleivers how they were to treat people that did not choose Islam, and also subsequently chose not to persecute the followers. Likewise did other Messengers.

Philosophers who reflect the Messages given by God via tge Messengers are held in high regard as people who contributed to the progress and enlightenment of humanity as a whole.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That was an article on Baha'i Teaching. Org by a Baha'i. That's not very private. And where did I ask you to come up with an interpretation of Daniel's friends being thrown in a furnace? Something that was not written as a prophetic message but as a real event that happened.

Now I have asked Baha'is to explain how they start counting the 2300 mornings and evening prophecy from Daniel on the year one of the decrees to rebuild Jerusalem went out? When in Daniel it seems to be talking about counting the time when a desecration of the temple happens. Not the rebuilding of Jerusalem.

Here' a Christian interpretation of it....

Daniel 8 speaks of 2,300 days in a prophecy concerning a persecution of the Jewish people during the intertestamental period. Similarly, in Revelation 11 and 12, John mentions 1,260 days in two prophecies concerning another persecution of the Jews during the end times. The main differences between these two prophecies are 1) Daniel’s has been fulfilled, and John’s has not; and 2) Daniel predicts the actions of Antiochus Epiphanes, and John predicts those of the Antichrist.​

​

The prophecy of the 2,300 days (“evenings and mornings”) is found in Daniel 8:13–14:​

​

“Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, ‘How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?’ He said to me, ‘It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.’”​

​

The time period covered, 2,300 days, figures to about 6 1/3 years. We believe this prophecy was fulfilled before the birth of Christ, during the reign of the Seleucid king Antiochus IV (Epiphanes). Antiochus desecrated the temple in Jerusalem and severely persecuted the Jews from about September 171/170 BC to December 165/164 BC. When Antiochus died, the Jews purified and rededicated the temple, just as Daniel had predicted. These events are commemorated in the celebration of Hanukkah.​

Ah yes... the "understanding" of the metaphor. Well then anything goes. Baha'is can make any prophecy or any verse in any Scriptures some kind of metaphor. Like three Woes being Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah. Although it's really difficult to make that claim fit the context. And especially when there are more "woes" later in Revelation, and they are not made to mean any "manifestation." Why the inconsistency in interpretation?

Rev 18:10 “‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,​

you mighty city of Babylon!​

In one hour your doom has come!’​

​

16 “‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,​

dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet,​

and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!​

17 In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!’​

​

19“‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,​

where all who had ships on the sea​

became rich through her wealth!​

In one hour she has been brought to ruin!’​

But these "woes" are manifestation?

Rev 8:13 As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: “Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!”​

Hmmm? A story about what happened to Jesus after he was killed. A story that all four Gospels told. And, apparently, because in one verse in one Gospel it has Jesus saying that the flesh amounts to nothing, you take that to mean the resurrection story is a metaphor?

That's just creative interpreting. Really creative. Let me try one.

Let's see... The virgin birth... Coming out of a woman shows the human side of Jesus. And by not having a human father shows his divinity.

Hey, that kind of works! So, the virgin birth wasn't a real event, it was just a metaphor. Gee thanks Tony.

Oops, Baha'is say that the virgin birth really happened? Come on you guys... make up your mind. Is all this stuff literally true or all metaphor?

Oh wait, I get it... Depends. Depends on what you want the verses to be. Virgin birth? That's okay. Literal. Resurrection? No, that's metaphor.

Yeah, now I understand. It's whatever the Baha'i say it is. And that's okay for you. But is it okay if I question how and why you are interpreting things like that?

Honestly, just all the best CG. These issues are sorted in finding out what the Messengers say and making up your mind. I will contribute less of my mind.

Regards Tony

 

[Balthazzar]

Firstly a Messenger never imposes their station of an Annointed One on to any person. They one and all offer a choice.

Muhammad said, "There is no Compulsion in Religion" and alao left guidance to the beleivers how they were to treat people that did not choose Islam, and also subsequently chose not to persecute the followers. Likewise did other Messengers.

Philosophers who reflect the Messages given by God via tge Messengers are held in high regard as people who contributed to the progress and enlightenment of humanity as a whole.

Regards Tony

Then, Bahaullah is another teacher with a large support group who is in agreement with creating bridges between the nations in an effort to establish more peaceful relations? Like I stated before, it sounds good face value, but what position will your teacher hold as the one who initiated the plan of action?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Then, Bahaullah is another teacher with a large support group who is in agreement with creating bridges between the nations in an effort to establish more peaceful relations? Like I stated before, it sounds good face value, but what position will your teacher hold as the one who initiated the plan of action?

The position of the Oneness of Humanity, of one planet, one peole please. The position of the elimination of predudices, the position of a universal compulsory education for both girls and boys, the position of the equality of both women and men. (Note I put them first in my reply, as women will lead men to peace). The position of a Universal Auxiliary world language, the position of the elimination of both extreme poverty and extreme wealth.

The list would.be large, all aimed at the peace and security of humanity and every individual.

Regards Tony

 

[Balthazzar]

The position of the Oneness of Humanity, of one planet, one peole please. The position of the elimination of predudices, the position of a universal compulsory education for both girls and boys, the position of the equality of both women and men. (Note I put them first in my reply, as women will lead men to peace). The position of a Universal Auxiliary world language, the position of the elimination of both extreme poverty and extreme wealth.

The list would.be large, all aimed at the peace and security of humanity and every individual.

Regards Tony

The hierarchy of such an entity will be appointed how and by whom, and include which types of people? I have already made mention of limited freedoms and my people having less ability to voice themselves and possible grievances as a result of. The title of the Bahaullah is also in question, and I hope you understand my inquiry and reason for it. My teacher, the one who was suggested to have been the Messiah, taught us not to believe anyone who claimed to be the Christ, not in that age, nor the ages to come. This is why I asked about an imposition such as this one, that persona specifically being imposed on everyone. It is concerning for many people not of that fold nor your own.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The hierarchy of such an entity will be appointed how and by whom, and include which types of people? I have already made mention of limited freedoms and my people having less ability to voice themselves and possible grievances as a result of. The title of the Bahaullah is also in question, and I hope you understand my inquiry and reason for it. My teacher, the one who was suggested to have been the Messiah, taught us not to believe anyone who claimed to be the Christ, not in that age, nor the ages to come. This is why I asked about an imposition such as this one, that persona specifically being imposed on everyone. It is concerning for many people not of that fold nor your own.

This will be built by a union of Nations, based on those God given principles.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

I ask for this reason: It would seem a very dangerous thing for any would be teacher to impose a Messiah complex on the many.

I think it is a very dangerous thing for Christians to impose their belief that Jesus is the Messiah on the many, especially since Jesus never claimed to be the Messiah who would come in the latter days.

 

[Trailblazer]

My teacher, the one who was suggested to have been the Messiah, taught us not to believe anyone who claimed to be the Christ, not in that age, nor the ages to come.

Baha'u'llah never claimed to be Christ. He claimed to be the promised return of the Christ spirit with a new name.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12-13 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

 

[Balthazzar]

A teacher who possesses a truthful spirit. I rather enjoy these types of people. They prove themselves to be sensible.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

A teacher who possesses a truthful spirit. I rather enjoy these types of people. They prove themselves to be sensible.

Trustworthiness and Truthfulness are the pinnacle of virtues, one such reference.

". The fourth Taraz concerneth trustworthiness. Verily it is the door of security for all that dwell on earth and a token of glory on the part of the All-Merciful. He who partaketh thereof hath indeed partaken of the treasures of wealth and prosperity. Trustworthiness is the greatest portal leading unto the tranquillity and security of the people. In truth the stability of every affair hath depended and doth depend upon it. All the domains of power, of grandeur and of wealth are illumined by its light..."
Tablets of Bahá'u'lláh Revealed after the Kitab-i-Aqdas

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

These issues are sorted in finding out what the Messengers say and making up your mind.

So, it sounds like there is no supporting reasons. It's a take it or leave it situation. Baha'u'llah said it and that settles it.

But it's interesting that you say the "Messengers". As if finding out what all the approved "Messengers" have said is all in agreement.

People can't even agree on what one messenger has said. Did Krishna teach reincarnation? Did Buddha teach about a God? Then with Jesus, forget about it. Everyone seems to have a different opinion on who he was and what he did and said.

So, in that post you did about "trustworthiness"... What can we trust about all the different religions and the things they believe?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So, it sounds like there is no supporting reasons. It's a take or leave situation. Baha'u'llah said and that settles it.

But it's interesting that you say the "Messengers". As if finding out what all the approved "Messengers" have said is all in agreement.

People can't even agree on what one messenger has said. Did Krishna teach reincarnation? Did Buddha teach about a God? Then with Jesus, forget about it. Everyone seems to have a different opinion on who he was and what he did and said.

So, in that post you did about "trustworthiness"... What can we trust about all the different religions and the things they believe?

The great thing is CG is that what all others have embraced, has naught to do with your journey, you get the chance to look at it all for your own self.

That is really the best advice I can give to you. Forget all what others have offered and embraced. Look at it all with your own eyes and hear with your own ears.

Regards Tony

 

[Sumadji]

Virgin birth? That's okay. Literal. Resurrection? No, that's metaphor.

Because the Quran accepts the literal virgin birth but rejects the resurrection* of Christ, although it very much supports the literal resurrection of the dead on the last day to judgement either to heaven or hell, with graphic descriptions on almost every page. The Quranic resurrection on the last day is explicitly a resurrection of the flesh. The Quran insists repeatedly. But the Baha'i take this as a figurative resurrection. It has already happened with the coming of Baha'u'llah.

The Quran rejects monasticism and the trinity, and so the Baha'i teachings reject monasticism and the trinity.

There's obviously no issue with the Baha'i having their own beliefs about their new messiah and their lesser and the greater peace, and working towards it. However a lot of their energy is spent on trying to persuade Christians to accept their Quranic beliefs as informing and updating the New Testament.

The Quran and the NT cannot be reconciled. It's a non-starter, and there will be pushback from Christians

(*Traditionally rejected by the major branches of Islam)

I think it is a very dangerous thing for Christians to impose their belief that Jesus is the Messiah on the many, especially since Jesus never claimed to be the Messiah who would come in the latter days.

He did claim to be the Messiah

When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
Matthew 13:16-20

There are other passages too

And when John had heard in prison about the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples and said to Him, “Are You the Coming One, or do we look for another?”

Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and tell John the things which you hear and see: The blind see and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them. And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me.”
Matthew 11:2-6

Baha'u'llah never claimed to be Christ. He claimed to be the promised return of the Christ spirit with a new name.

You have said this before. Could you expand a little? It's already understood that Baha'u'llah doesn't claim to be Jesus. That he is come with a new name. But surely he does claim to be (the) Christ?

 

[CG Didymus]

The Quran and the NT cannot be reconciled. It's a non-starter, and there will be pushback from Christians

Thanks for your input. Another thing that I ask Baha'is is if they accept the Quran version of the birth of Jesus, that Mary gave birth to him under a date palm, or the Gospels version that has him being born in a manger in Bethlehem.

I don't think any Baha'i has responded to that. And I can see why. It's just a can of worms for them. But it's their own fault for claiming that all religions and their Scriptures are true. But then they walk that back a little and say, "But the Quran is more accurate than the Bible." And who knows which Hindu and Buddhist Scriptures they believe in?

Though the religions, as practiced and believed in by their followers, can't be reconciled, Baha'is have to try and reconcile them.

You have said this before. Could you expand a little? It's already understood that Baha'u'llah doesn't claim to be Jesus. That he is come with a new name. But surely he does claim to be (the) Christ?

TB tries to get technical. If it literally doesn't say it in the Bible, then she is quick to point that out. But with word Christ or Messiah? That's exactly who Baha'is say that Baha'u'llah is.

I've argued with them about verses in the Book of Revelation that sure seem to make it sound like it is Jesus coming back. Like, I ask them, who is the Lamb? That sounds like it's describing Jesus to me.

But some Baha'is also like to get technical. They say that Jesus is not the "Lamb" that was slain. He was crucified. But the Bab, he was "slain". He was shot by a firing squad. Therefore, he was the Lamb that was slain. And, because the title, Baha'u'llah, means the "Glory of God", then whenever it says the "Glory of God" in Revelation, it's talking about Baha'u'llah.

But, if a person wants to get technical, when did the beast, dragon, the second beast, Armageddon, and all the rest of that stuff happen?

Abdul Baha' just interpret two chapters and says that Muhammad and Ali are the two witnesses. He has the Umayyads as the beast. He has the mark or number of the beast, the 666, as a date, the year 661, when the Umayyads first came to power. It kind of explains things? I guess? But there's twenty more chapters of stuff that he doesn't explain.

And then at the end John says, "Come Lord Jesus"? So, was John talking to an angel or Jesus? And for the Baha's, it would seem like it would have to Baha'u'llah... since he said that he was coming soon.

All interesting stuff. And still... there's wars and rumors of wars. So, has the Christ already come and gone?