Building Bridges to the Unity of Humanity

[gotti]

The idea of some kind of unity of humanity sounds like a silly ideal or platitude to me.

What we have going on now and what we've always been doing as a species is as close as we're ever going to get.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Be reasonable, do it my way?

Christians do not follow Mosaic law.

Muslims do not acknowledge the Christ of the Christian Bible.

They are separate and independent religions, although there is some crossover.

Why not instead: You are welcome to your beliefs, but don't try to change mine to conform to yours

Then the people of the world would get on with their own quiet faith, rather than proselytizing and judging and criticizing other religions.

No,not our way. I would offer we should do it God's Way, using the advice God has given us via the Messengers.

The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded. Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

One does not have to be a Baha'i, want to be a Baha'i and is not being asked to be a Baha'i, to note what was said and the wisdom it now reflects.

It is a big "If only they had" done so.

To say otherwise is being dishonest. One is only stating the obvious solution given in that talk, as being a logical and viable solution.

Regards Tony

Are you saying I'm dishonest for stating my sincerely held belief that accusing a people of propheticide who in most cases certainly had nothing to do with it and in the remaining few cases it is unlikely they had anything to do with it is unwise?

 

[Sumadji]

Remember the response to the Message of Jesus (All Messengers), who gives a hoot about those that rejected at that time the essence of the Messages they gave?

This is wrong. The people flocked to Jesus because he was a healer. He healed the lowest and the most neglected. and then he preached to them in words that have forever changed the course of history. That have never been surpassed.

He came to the broken and the lost. They believed what he said because of what he did. They couldn't get enough of him. The people loved him. He proved himself at every turn.

He wasn't talking to them about world peace and unity. He spoke to the heart and soul of every individual. He healed the body and the soul.

The political leaders needed him out of the way because they thought he would bring Rome down on them. Revolution was brewing. It was a dangerous time

No comparison with Baha'u'llah

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Are you saying I'm dishonest for stating my sincerely held belief that accusing a people of propheticide who in most cases certainly had nothing to do with it and in the remaining few cases it is unlikely they had anything to do with it is unwise?

Still not addressing what was offered, as good advice, or not good advice that would solve many issues we face in this age.

I am offering, and it is becoming more and more obvious, that you and many, will try every path of rejection, before they will say, hey that sounds like a good idea.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No comparison with Baha'u'llah

That is a dishonest statement, I know that, because I know with that statement, you know nothing of either the Bab of Baha’u’llah's life.

To make such a statement you should be aware of how Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah also changed and effected the lives of people of that time.

Regards Tony

 

[Sumadji]

Still not addressing what was offered, as good advice, or not good advice that would solve many issues we face in this age.

Please correct me if I'm wrong: the good advice is that Jews should accept Jesus and Christians should accept Muhammad (pbuh). Does that mean that Jews should become Christians, and Christians should become Muslims? They should all merge into Shia Islam and then all merge with the Baha'i, as informing and updating all the others?

If that is not what Abdul Baha suggests, is it possible to explain?

 

[Trailblazer]

If you have specific points, I will try google the Quran passages for you

Thanks. I would like to know what the Qur'an says about the literal resurrection of the dead on the last day to judgement either to heaven or hell.

This is the very attitude that has led to the persecution of Jews by "Christians" down two thousand years. Abdul Baha has no authority to pronounce on the issue, beyond his own conditioning.

I do not think that Abdu'l-Baha was pronouncing on this issue. He was only referring to the Jews who persecuted Jesus in the past.

The Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because Jesus does not meet the requirements of the Jewish warrior messiah come to save the Jewish people alone. It would be against their religion to accept Jesus as the messiah, whatever Christians like to believe. (To the best of my knowledge and open to correction)

Jesus does not meet those requirements so the Jews are right to reject Jesus as the messiah they have been waiting for.
But Jews also reject Baha'u'llah even though He meets the requirements for the Jewish messiah.

Is Jesus the messiah? Christians believe so, but that he came as the suffering servant, rather than the warrior hero, and that he came for all humanity, rather than for the Jews alone.

According to Abdu'l-Baha Jesus was the messiah, so that is what Baha'is believe. However, Jesus was never slated to be the Promised One who would come in the latter days. That would be impossible because Jesus never promised to return to earth, not even once in the New Testament. Rather, Jesus said that His work was finished here, He was no more in the world, and that His kingdom was not of this world. (John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30, John 18:36, John 18:37)

Muslims believe that Jesus is the Jewish messiah. They believe that Jesus came to restore and refresh the law of Moses.

Jesus did come to restore and refresh the law of Moses, but that does not make Jesus the Jewish messiah.
Jesus did not fulfill the Old Testament prophecies for the Jewish messiah, so He is not the messiah that the Jews are waiting for.

The rest of your post really confuses me. I know Baha'i believe that the Holy Spirit (of God) does not enter the messenger, but is reflected by the messenger. But they do believe the messenger is 'anointed' by the Holy Spirit.

I never said that I believe all the messengers are 'anointed' by the Holy Spirit, Tony said that.
That is not a Baha'i belief, it is only Tony's personal opinion.

The meaning of the Christ or the Messiah is really 'the anointed one'.

I believe that refers to Jesus and only Jesus.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Please correct me if I'm wrong: the good advice is that Jews should accept Jesus and Christians should accept Muhammad (pbuh). Does that mean that Jews should become Christians, and Christians should become Muslims? It should all merge into one Abrahamic faith, and then further merge with the Baha'i, as informing and updating all the others?

If that is not what Abdul Baha suggests, is it possible to explain?

The suggestion by Abdul'baha was not asking people to change their faith, but to accept the divine origin of the Tanakh Prophets and both Jesus and Muhammad.

Even the Pope can do that.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

No comparison with Baha'u'llah

No, but that does not make Jesus "better" than Baha'u'llah.

Besides, Baha'u'llah did a lot of things that Jesus did not do, just as Jesus promised.

John 16:7-11 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

 

[England my lionheart]

I know and they need to be given power to enforce the international laws.

Regards Tony

Spoken like a true proselytising enforcer.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Spoken like a true proselytising enforcer.

You sound angry, and have provides a reply in that light.

There is no doubt that the United Nations needs to be granted the authority to enforce the resolutions it makes.

May God's Will be done. (That will was given to us to love each other and live in peace).

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

The suggestion by Abdul'baha was not asking people to change their faith, but to accept the divine origin of the Tanakh Prophets and both Jesus and Muhammad.

Even the Pope can do that.

Regards Tony

Do you honestly believe that changing one's faith to accept faith in the divine origins of Jesus and Muhammad is not asking people to change their faith?

Look at the steps Tony.
Step1 No faith in divine origins of Jesus and Muhammad
Step2 Faith in divine origins of Jesus and Muhammad.

How does that not constitute a change of faith?

 

[CG Didymus]

Knowing what you as Baha'is know, if you were transported back in time, what would you tell the Jews?

"Yes, believe everything that the Christians are telling you. It is sure guidance from God."

Except all we know about what Jesus said is in the NT. Which Baha'is say if followed literally is misguidance.

Abdu'l-Baha told them what they needed to know, is there any doubt about that wisdom now?

The question was... If you went back in time. By using Baha'i beliefs, there is no way a Jew should accept a religion that teaches its prophet is God. Plus, it was early on when Paul made following the Law unnecessary. The Law which the Jewish Bible says pretty much that they are to keep it forever.

 

[CG Didymus]

Verses such as these can guide us.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Test all things; hold fast to that which is good".

And if applied to Paul's writings and other things written in the NT, would some of the things that Christians believe and teach hold up?

Virtues and morality, being kind hearted, compassionate and forgiving are all good.

Those are the teachings that bind us

And you don't think the Ahmadiyyas and Scientologists teach the virtues?

And if those are the things that bind us, why don't you talk about them as a way to build bridges between people with differing beliefs?

 

[CG Didymus]

Why not instead: You are welcome to your beliefs, but don't try to change mine to conform to yours

Then the people of the world would get on with their own quiet faith, rather than proselytizing and judging and criticizing other religions.

Unfortunately, "teaching" the Faith is part of what is expected of a Baha'i.

And what is it that they are told to teach? That the Promised One of all ages has come. He alone has the teachings that are needed to bring peace to the world. Read his writings and see that it is true. Then, if you believe he is who he claims to be, join the Baha'is and help build the "New World Order".

I liked a lot of what the Baha'is teach. And I still like some of it. But can I believe it all? No.

 

[CG Didymus]

The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded. Baha'u'llah.

Okay, step one... firmly establish the unity of all people the world over. That's a huge first step. What are the baby steps that we need to take first?

Probably eliminate all prejudices. Right? Probably become nicer, more loving, more humble and all the good things? Since how can we have unity if some of us are greedy, hateful jerks?

Oh, but it says that we can never achieve unity? As long as we keep unheeding the counsels of the Pen of the Most High? Hmmm? Who could that be? Could it be Baha'u'llah?

Okay, what are those counsels that we have to stop unheeding and start heeding? Is it those virtues and stop being prejudice? Or is there other counsels?

Ah, I remember something about that his first counsel is something about possess a pure and kindly heart? And that's it? Just do it? Won't that take a little time? Like if we get to almost having a pure heart, what happens? You know, I don't know if I or any "normal" human can get that perfect.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Spoken like a true proselytising enforcer.

The world will not change with those type of comments, thus those comments just add to the conflict the world now faces.

Do you have anything good to add, do you have a solution to share?

Choose wisely.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Do you honestly believe that changing one's faith to accept faith in the divine origins of Jesus and Muhammad is not asking people to change their faith?

Look at the steps Tony.
Step1 No faith in divine origins of Jesus and Muhammad
Step2 Faith in divine origins of Jesus and Muhammad.

How does that not constitute a change of faith?

It would be up to the conscience of all people to make a choice, I cannot answer for them.

The Pope is still Catholic.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The question was... If you went back in time. By using Baha'i beliefs, there is no way a Jew should accept a religion that teaches its prophet is God. Plus, it was early on when Paul made following the Law unnecessary. The Law which the Jewish Bible says pretty much that they are to keep it forever.

Do you think no one was doing that from the Baha'i back then? Some of them were Saint's and Hands of the Cause, what could I say that they did not say, what Abdul'baha already offered, in the thousands of talks?

Regards Tony