Building Bridges to the Unity of Humanity

[loverofhumanity]

All people needed was spears and bows and arrows and knifes and swords and they could go destroy cities.

Without a spiritual change some people will still want to conquer and destroy others for wealth and power.

How is it that God changed you? Why can't he do that for everybody? And if God doesn't do it for everybody, the power hungry people will keep doing what they are doing. And they will continue to amass the people and weapons needed to conquer others.

So, the ones that don't want "billions" to die will push for disarmament and will put down anyone who tries to manufacture them again? And destroy them? That's still a war. And what are they, the good guys, going to use as weapons to enforce this "collective" security?

Weapons have been invented to aid in the survival of people... But it's been the survival of attacks from other people. So, they had to be stronger than their enemies.

There were no nukes when Baha'u'llah was around. Now there is. What happened? Where did people get the knowledge to invent them? Why did God allow people to invent nukes? Knowing they weren't spiritually mature enough to handle it?

Would any of us give a gun to a child and expect them not to use it?

Baha’u’llah warned that there was a destructive power which if discovered could change the atmosphere and hoped it would not be discovered until people had developed spiritual maturity but God never uses force to make us change. Baha’u’llah’s warning went unheeded. All He was sent to earth for was to ‘offer’ guidance from God but it still is always our choice to follow that guidance or not. God did His job and warned us but we ignored Baha’u’llah although He was promised in all religions. No excuses really. Instead of listening to the clergy people should have investigated the truth for themselves but they didn’t. So they were misled. The other half of society became very materialistic and greedy and so decided to have a couple of world wars. They are still ignoring Baha’u’llah and His call to unite so what comes next is anyone’s guess but it doesn’t look pretty.

Interestingly, all the countries on fire with war are ones which had been directly visited by Baha’u’llah. Israel, Iran, Syria, Iraq and so on. He called those countries specifically to peace and to unite but as we can see the opposite has happened by ignoring His call to unite. So I personally hope there won’t be a catastrophe because it will be universal and we will all be affected. But if they can’t sit down and reconcile their differences we may all be in for a very rough ride.

Fighting over a piece of land. The only land we all own permanently is our grave so how pitiful they fight over these things.

 

[Trailblazer]

Because the Quran accepts the literal virgin birth but rejects the resurrection* of Christ, although it very much supports the literal resurrection of the dead on the last day to judgement either to heaven or hell, with graphic descriptions on almost every page. The Quranic resurrection on the last day is explicitly a resurrection of the flesh. The Quran insists repeatedly.

I'd like to see those verses but unfortunately I don't have time to read the whole Qur'an right now. If you knew anything about my life you'd know why. It is just one thing after another, it never ends.

He did claim to be the Messiah

There are other passages too

Baha'is do not deny that Jesus was the Messiah. We believe that Jesus was the Messiah because that is what Abdu'l-Baha said.

“The Book of Isaiah announces that the Messiah will conquer the East and the West, and all nations of the world will come under His shadow, that His Kingdom will be established, that He will come from an unknown place, that the sinners will be judged, and that justice will prevail to such a degree that the wolf and the lamb, the leopard and the kid, the sucking child and the asp, shall all gather at one spring, and in one meadow, and one dwelling. 4 The first coming was also under these conditions, though outwardly none of them came to pass. Therefore, the Jews rejected Christ, and, God forbid! called the Messiah masíkh, 5 considered Him to be the destroyer of the edifice of God, regarded Him as the breaker of the Sabbath and the Law, and sentenced Him to death. Nevertheless, each one of these conditions had a signification that the Jews did not understand; therefore, they were debarred from perceiving the truth of Christ.

The second coming of Christ also will be in like manner: the signs and conditions which have been spoken of all have meanings, and are not to be taken literally.” (Some Answered Questions, p. 111)

Read more:

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 110-112

You have said this before. Could you expand a little? It's already understood that Baha'u'llah doesn't claim to be Jesus. That he is come with a new name. But surely he does claim to be (the) Christ?

No, Baha'u'llah did not claim to be 'the Christ.' Rather than me trying to explain it, below are the verses with His claims.

Baha'u'llah was the return of the Spirit of God.

“O kings of Christendom! Heard ye not the saying of Jesus, the Spirit of God, “I go away, and come again unto you”? Wherefore, then, did ye fail, when He did come again unto you in the clouds of heaven, to draw nigh unto Him, that ye might behold His face, and be of them that attained His Presence? In another passage He saith: “When He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth.”
(Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 246)

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 246-249

“We, in truth, have sent Him Whom We aided with the Holy Spirit (Jesus Christ) that He may announce unto you this Light that hath shone forth from the horizon of the will of your Lord, the Most Exalted, the All-Glorious, and Whose signs have been revealed in the West. Set your faces towards Him (Bahá’u’lláh) on this Day which God hath exalted above all other days, and whereon the All-Merciful hath shed the splendour of His effulgent glory upon all who are in heaven and all who are on earth.” (Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 18)

Bahá'í Reference Library - Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 17-23

“This is, truly, that which the Spirit of God (Jesus Christ) hath announced, when He came with truth unto you, He with Whom the Jewish doctors disputed, till at last they perpetrated what hath made the Holy Spirit to lament, and the tears of them that have near access to God to flow….”
(Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 19)

Bahá'í Reference Library - Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 17-23

“The Word which the Son concealed is made manifest. It hath been sent down in the form of the human temple in this day. Blessed be the Lord Who is the Father! He, verily, is come unto the nations in His most great majesty.” (Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 84-85)

Bahá'í Reference Library - Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 83-86

“Ye make mention of Me, and know Me not. Ye call upon Me, and are heedless of My Revelation…. O people of the Gospel! They who were not in the Kingdom have now entered it, whilst We behold you, in this day, tarrying at the gate. Rend the veils asunder by the power of your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Bounteous, and enter, then, in My name My Kingdom. Thus biddeth you He Who desireth for you everlasting life…”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, Page 91

“WE, verily, have come for your sakes, and have borne the misfortunes of the world for your salvation. Flee ye the One Who hath sacrificed His life that ye may be quickened? Fear God, O followers of the Spirit (Jesus), and walk not in the footsteps of every divine that hath gone far astray… Open the doors of your hearts. He Who is the Spirit (Jesus) verily, standeth before them.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, Page 92

Baha'u'llah says WE because He is referring to Himself and Jesus Christ. Both of them have borne the misfortunes of the world for our salvation.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The Quran and the NT cannot be reconciled. It's a non-starter, and there will be pushback from Christians

I posted this talk in another OP, but it is also applicable to your comment and this OP

Abdul'baha spoke to the San Franciscan Jewish community in 1912. His astounding questions, frank and courageous talk now reflect a neglect that is manifesting in events we now face in this age. This is a truly powerful talk supporting this OP.

Abdul Baha speaks at Temple Emmanuel, 1912:

Spoiler: Must Read

"Today the Christians are believers in Moses, accept Him as a Prophet of God and praise Him most highly. The Muslims are, likewise, believers in Moses, accept the validity of His Prophethood, at the same time believing in Christ. Could it be said that the acceptance of Moses by the Christians and Muslims has been harmful and detrimental to those people? On the contrary, it has been beneficial to them, proving that they have been fair-minded and just. What harm could result to the Jewish people, then, if they in return should accept Christ and acknowledge the validity of the Prophethood of Muḥammad? By this acceptance and praiseworthy attitude the enmity and hatred which have afflicted mankind so many centuries would be dispelled, fanaticism and bloodshed pass away and the world be blessed by unity and agreement. Christians and Muslims believe and admit that Moses was the Interlocutor of God. Why do you not say that Christ was the Word of God? Why do you not speak these few words that will do away with all this difficulty? Then there will be no more hatred and fanaticism, no more warfare and bloodshed in the Land of Promise. Then there will be peace among you forever.

Verily, I now declare to you that Moses was the Interlocutor of God and a most noteworthy Prophet, that Moses revealed the fundamental law of God and founded the real ethical basis of the civilization and progress of humanity. What harm is there in this? Have I lost anything by saying this to you and believing it as a Bahá'í? On the contrary, it benefits me; and Bahá'u'lláh, the Founder of the Bahá'í Movement, confirms me, saying, "You have been fair and just in your judgment; you have impartially investigated the truth and arrived at a true conclusion; you have announced your belief in Moses, a Prophet of God, and accepted the Torah, the Book of God." Inasmuch as it is possible for me to sweep away all evidences of prejudice by such a liberal and universal statement of belief, why is it not possible for you to do likewise? Why not put an end to this religious strife and establish a bond of connection between the hearts of men? Why should not the followers of one religion praise the Founder or Teacher of another? The other religionists extol the greatness of Moses and admit that He was the Founder of Judaism. Why do the Hebrews refuse to praise and accept the other great Messengers Who have appeared in the world? What harm could there be in this? What rightful objection? None whatever. You would lose nothing by such action and statement. On the contrary, you would contribute to the welfare of mankind. You would be instrumental in establishing the happiness of the world of humanity. The eternal honor of man depends upon the liberalism of this modern age. Inasmuch as our God is one God and the Creator of all mankind, He provides for and protects all. We acknowledge Him as a God of kindness, justice and mercy. Why then should we, His children and followers, war and fight, bringing sorrow and grief into the hearts of each other? God is loving and merciful. His intention in religion has ever been the bond of unity and affinity between humankind."

The Promulgation of Universal Peace | Bahá’í Reference Library

A collection of transcriptions of over one hundred talks delivered by ‘Abdu’l‑Bahá during the nine months in 1912 when He travelled across the United States and Canada.

www.bahai.org

So easy to build bridges by just changing our own mindset.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

Interestingly, all the countries on fire with war are ones which had been directly visited by Baha’u’llah

When did Baha'u'llah visit Ukraine? What about Myanmar?

 

[danieldemol]

I posted this talk in another OP, but it is also applicable to your comment and this OP

Abdul'baha spoke to the San Franciscan Jewish community in 1912. His astounding questions, frank and courageous talk now reflect a neglect that is manifesting in events we now face in this age. This is a truly powerful talk supporting this OP.

Abdul Baha speaks at Temple Emmanuel, 1912:

Spoiler: Must Read

"Today the Christians are believers in Moses, accept Him as a Prophet of God and praise Him most highly. The Muslims are, likewise, believers in Moses, accept the validity of His Prophethood, at the same time believing in Christ. Could it be said that the acceptance of Moses by the Christians and Muslims has been harmful and detrimental to those people? On the contrary, it has been beneficial to them, proving that they have been fair-minded and just. What harm could result to the Jewish people, then, if they in return should accept Christ and acknowledge the validity of the Prophethood of Muḥammad? By this acceptance and praiseworthy attitude the enmity and hatred which have afflicted mankind so many centuries would be dispelled, fanaticism and bloodshed pass away and the world be blessed by unity and agreement. Christians and Muslims believe and admit that Moses was the Interlocutor of God. Why do you not say that Christ was the Word of God? Why do you not speak these few words that will do away with all this difficulty? Then there will be no more hatred and fanaticism, no more warfare and bloodshed in the Land of Promise. Then there will be peace among you forever.

Verily, I now declare to you that Moses was the Interlocutor of God and a most noteworthy Prophet, that Moses revealed the fundamental law of God and founded the real ethical basis of the civilization and progress of humanity. What harm is there in this? Have I lost anything by saying this to you and believing it as a Bahá'í? On the contrary, it benefits me; and Bahá'u'lláh, the Founder of the Bahá'í Movement, confirms me, saying, "You have been fair and just in your judgment; you have impartially investigated the truth and arrived at a true conclusion; you have announced your belief in Moses, a Prophet of God, and accepted the Torah, the Book of God." Inasmuch as it is possible for me to sweep away all evidences of prejudice by such a liberal and universal statement of belief, why is it not possible for you to do likewise? Why not put an end to this religious strife and establish a bond of connection between the hearts of men? Why should not the followers of one religion praise the Founder or Teacher of another? The other religionists extol the greatness of Moses and admit that He was the Founder of Judaism. Why do the Hebrews refuse to praise and accept the other great Messengers Who have appeared in the world? What harm could there be in this? What rightful objection? None whatever. You would lose nothing by such action and statement. On the contrary, you would contribute to the welfare of mankind. You would be instrumental in establishing the happiness of the world of humanity. The eternal honor of man depends upon the liberalism of this modern age. Inasmuch as our God is one God and the Creator of all mankind, He provides for and protects all. We acknowledge Him as a God of kindness, justice and mercy. Why then should we, His children and followers, war and fight, bringing sorrow and grief into the hearts of each other? God is loving and merciful. His intention in religion has ever been the bond of unity and affinity between humankind."

The Promulgation of Universal Peace | Bahá’í Reference Library

A collection of transcriptions of over one hundred talks delivered by ‘Abdu’l‑Bahá during the nine months in 1912 when He travelled across the United States and Canada.

www.bahai.org

So easy to build bridges by just changing our own mindset.

Regards Tony

How do you know it built bridges to the Jewish community when you do not even have their response to the questions raised by Abdul-Baha recorded?

They could well have provided a thought provoking rejection of Jesus, Muhammad and Baha'u'llah in response and you've declared victory without even knowing if it built bridges in my view.

 

[CG Didymus]

All He was sent to earth for was to ‘offer’ guidance from God but it still is always our choice to follow that guidance or not. God did His job and warned us but we ignored Baha’u’llah although He was promised in all religions.

Okay, let's use Jesus as an example.

What harm could result to the Jewish people, then, if they in return should accept Christ

And Abdul Baha' says, "What harm" could it cause?

Knowing what you as Baha'is know, if you were transported back in time, what would you tell the Jews?

"Yes, believe everything that the Christians are telling you. It is sure guidance from God."

Except all we know about what Jesus said is in the NT. Which Baha'is say if followed literally is misguidance.

It was the Christian leaders that decided which books got put into the NT. And it sounds like Baha'is don't trust them. And blames them for misinterpreting things and coming up with false doctrines like when they made Jesus God.

You have confidence in Baha'u'llah and the Baha'i Faith, but why should others? How can people trust religions when Baha'is themselves tell us how wrong the leaders in all religions have been?

The best thing that the Baha'i Faith says to do is to investigate the truth for ourselves. But what happens when that investigation finds problems with the claims made by Baha'u'llah and the Baha'i Faith?

Like with the Baha'i peace statement... What's supposed to happen? The leaders of the nations are all going to agree to work together and disarm? That's one of the first steps that Baha'is say will happen on our way to establishing the "lesser" peace. How is that supposed to happen?

What's the details of the plan? Will all nations disarm willingly or will some have to be forced? What if several nations refuse? All the other nations rise up to force them? That's a war. A war that will need superior weapons to defeat the nations that don't want to disarm.

Then there are the people within several nations that will probably refuse to disarm. But what if they hide their weapons? And they wait for all the nations to disarm and then they try to take over?

Then there's the organized crime people. They're not going to disarm willingly. What are these nations going to do? Fight them? With what? Probably weapons.

But I know... it's not the Baha'is problem to make the plan work.

 

[CG Didymus]

When did Baha'u'llah visit Ukraine? What about Myanmar?

And how many nations have been "on fire" with war since Baha'u'llah died?

But I guess he did send some of them letters saying that if they don't listen to him, there will be wars.

But God has tried that before... sending a "nice" guy to tell everyone to love each other. I thought they end time Messiah comes in and kicks some butt?

Rev 19:11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:​

​

king of kings and lord of lords.​

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”​

​

19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.​

​

But, yeah, yeah, that's all symbolic. The reality is that the Promised One gets thrown in jail by the evil kings, and they keep doing what they were doing... And are still doing nearly 150 years after the Promised One has come and gone.

 

[CG Didymus]

Why should not the followers of one religion praise the Founder or Teacher of another?

Like the founder of the Ahmadiyyas? Or how about L. Ron Hubbard? There's some religious teachers that even Baha'is don't accept.

And for some Jews... I'd imagine that Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah teach things that just aren't compatible with their beliefs.

So, what are they supposed to accept about them? They believe they were false Messiahs.

Which means that Abdul Baha' is teaching something that kind of sounds good, but, in reality, isn't true. Religions just have different beliefs... That is unless you're a Baha'is and reinvent all those other religions to make them all one and compatible with each other. And I absolutely believe it is possible to do that. But it takes some doing.

But again, unless you're a Baha'i, then it's easy. All you have to do is say that the Jewish Bible has been replaced. The new truth is the New Testament. Which really isn't all that true, if taken literally. But that goes for the Jewish Bible too.

But who cares... They've both been replaced by the teachings of Muhammad found in the Quran. Which was replaced by the Bayan. I guess? Did it ever get officially installed as the new divine teachings from God? But that's not important, because the writings of Baha'u'llah has replaced them all.

He has brought the teachings that can and will unite the world in peace and harmony. All people have to do is believe in the Baha'i Faith and put it's teachings into practice.

But like with all other religions... How many believers actually put all the teachings into practice?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How do you know it built bridges to the Jewish community when you do not even have their response to the questions raised by Abdul-Baha recorded?

They could well have provided a thought provoking rejection of Jesus, Muhammad and Baha'u'llah in response and you've declared victory without even knowing if it built bridges in my view.

The key is, that is how unity will be found. The response to those questions is that there is no harm and it is the right thing to do.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

The key is, that is how unity will be found. The response to those questions is that there is no harm and it is the right thing to do.

Regards Tony

That sounds suspiciously like the Baha'i response as opposed to the Jewish response Tony, but if I'm wrong cite your source in my view.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Knowing what you as Baha'is know, if you were transported back in time, what would you tell the Jews?

Abdu'l-Baha told them what they needed to know, is there any doubt about that wisdom now?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Like the founder of the Ahmadiyyas? Or how about L. Ron Hubbard? There's some religious teachers that even Baha'is don't accept.

Verses such as these can guide us.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Test all things; hold fast to that which is good".

Virtues and morality, being kind hearted, compassionate and forgiving are all good.

Those are the teachings that bind us

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That sounds suspiciously like the Baha'i response as opposed to the Jewish response Tony, but if I'm wrong cite your source in my view.

This is only one Synagogue Abdul'baha talked at, and only one of the talks, all the others had the same theme and challenges, all these stories are recorded in detail in many works. One can look up the responses if they are interested.

The response I make is one of unity, the talk is sound and logical common sense.

I has already replied to this same question, most likely in the other thread. As stated in that reply.

Some orthodox walked out and protested, the middle road had lots to debate and the like minded embraced the oneness of God, some even opened there hearts to Christ and Muhammad.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

Abdu'l-Baha told them what they needed to know, is there any doubt about that wisdom now?

Regards Tony

Plenty of doubt Tony, that is why me and other RF peoples are not Baha'i in my view. I'm honestly surprised you even needed to ask if we have doubt.

 

[danieldemol]

This is only one Synagogue Abdul'baha talked at, and only one of the talks, all the others had the same theme and challenges, all these stories are recorded in detail in many works. One can look up the responses if they are interested.

The response I make is one of unity, the talk is sound and logical common sense.

I has already replied to this same question, most likely in the other thread. As stated in that reply.

Some orthodox walked out and protested, the middle road had lots to debate and the like minded embraced the oneness of God, some even opened there hearts to Christ and Muhammad.

Regards Tony

Did you mean post #1,750 here;

What if we accepted each others Religion?

Respect for life is crucial. In Romans 12:18, it says, "If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." Live at peace does not mean I should embrace their viewpoint.

www.religiousforums.com

?

What you provided me was a selection of approx 200 articles of thousands hand selected by a Baha'i (I assume because they spoke sufficiently favourably of Abdul-Baha).

But I think that is only a very broad beginning to your homework Tony.

I asked you specifically for the Jewish response from non-Baha'i sources. Handing me 200 articles most of which would be irrelevant is insufficient in my view.

How about when you get a chance you provide a link to the specific article which details the Jewish response if you don't mind?

 

[Sumadji]

easy to build bridges by just changing our own mindset.

Be reasonable, do it my way?

Christians do not follow Mosaic law.

Muslims do not acknowledge the Christ of the Christian Bible.

They are separate and independent religions, although there is some crossover.

Why not instead: You are welcome to your beliefs, but don't try to change mine to conform to yours

Then the people of the world would get on with their own quiet faith, rather than proselytizing and judging and criticizing other religions.

 

[Sumadji]

I'd like to see those verses

If you have specific points, I will try google the Quran passages for you

Therefore, the Jews rejected Christ, and, God forbid! called the Messiah masíkh, 5 considered Him to be the destroyer of the edifice of God, regarded Him as the breaker of the Sabbath and the Law, and sentenced Him to death. Nevertheless, each one of these conditions had a signification that the Jews did not understand; therefore, they were debarred from perceiving the truth of Christ.

This is the very attitude that has led to the persecution of Jews by "Christians" down two thousand years. Abdul Baha has no authority to pronounce on the issue, beyond his own conditioning. The Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because Jesus does not meet the requirements of the Jewish warrior messiah come to save the Jewish people alone. It would be against their religion to accept Jesus as the messiah, whatever Christians like to believe. (To the best of my knowledge and open to correction)

Is Jesus the messiah? Christians believe so, but that he came as the suffering servant, rather than the warrior hero, and that he came for all humanity, rather than for the Jews alone.

Muslims believe that Jesus is the Jewish messiah. They believe that Jesus came to restore and refresh the law of Moses.

Baha'u'llah was the return of the Spirit of God.

The rest of your post really confuses me. I know Baha'i believe that the Holy Spirit (of God) does not enter the messenger, but is reflected by the messenger. But they do believe the messenger is 'anointed' by the Holy Spirit. The meaning of the Christ or the Messiah is really 'the anointed one'.

 

[danieldemol]

This is the very attitude that has led to the persecution of Jews by "Christians" down two thousand years. Abdul Baha has no authority to pronounce on the issue, beyond his own conditioning. The Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because Jesus does not meet the requirements of the Jewish warrior messiah come to save the Jewish people alone. It would be against their religion to accept Jesus as the messiah, whatever Christians like to believe. (To the best of my knowledge and open to correction)

I think you are spot on, and I didn't understand the role Christianity played in Nazi Germany when I initially read these words of Abdul-Baha as an at the time Baha'i, so I was probably even more impressed with them than Trailblazer currently is in my view. Fortunately for me in my view I came to understand that treating people as fanatics because they don't accept one's spiritual leader is itself a form of fanaticism and whilst it may have been harmless enough in effect amongst a Baha'i minority it takes little to imagine the effect such words may have on a deeply conservative ignorant Bahai mob should a Baha'i majority ever eventuate in my opinion.

It would have been much wiser for Abdul-Baha to say "certain of the Jews", although it may still be non-historical at least it wouldn't be falsely charging an entire people with Propheticide in my view.

But I suppose we could only expect such wisdom from somebody who was truly divinely inspired.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Plenty of doubt Tony, that is why me and other RF peoples are not Baha'i in my view. I'm honestly surprised you even needed to ask if we have doubt.

One does not have to be a Baha'i, want to be a Baha'i and is not being asked to be a Baha'i, to note what was said and the wisdom it now reflects.

It is a big "If only they had" done so.

To say otherwise is being dishonest. One is only stating the obvious solution given in that talk, as being a logical and viable solution.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What you provided me was a selection of approx 200 articles of thousands hand selected by a Baha'i (I assume because they spoke sufficiently favourably of Abdul-Baha).

But I think that is only a very broad beginning to your homework Tony.

I asked you specifically for the Jewish response from non-Baha'i sources. Handing me 200 articles most of which would be irrelevant is insufficient in my view.

How about when you get a chance you provide a link to the specific article which details the Jewish response if you don't mind?

The response to the talks are irrelevant. It is therefore essence of the talk where the wisdom is found, not in how people responded to it.

Remember the response to the Message of Jesus (All Messengers), who gives a hoot about those that rejected at that time the essence of the Messages they gave?

What would be fruitful would be our response to it now.

If you are interested as to how they responded, then please do the research. I have read those reports and given you a response, I am not motivated to find them again at this time.

As to all the Newspaper articles, some 2200 or so, many have not yet been published, I assume someone may in the future. Some that were published, that I read in those two Volumes, showed not everyone saw Abdul'baha in a good light, their loss.

Regards Tony