Christian Magic?

[Reverend Rick]

it's one of the more interesting threads IMO

:yes:

 

[Gentoo]

really? I see no evidence...

so far we have established:

words are powerful
magic does not involve newts
thinking about sprite is a form of magic
poop can be used to signfy many things,
magic is the way of the universe meaning the universe is actually poop
christians are all performing magic due to the above
Jesus was a hermeticist

:sarcastic

:sarcastic indeed....

 

[Perfect Circle]

Yes, because anything you speak has power to effect the world around you. Therefore, magic is the way of the universe.

Ah... I see. So on the same note, because me flipping people off has the power to affect the world around me... flipping people off is the way of the universe....?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

You don't understand magic

 

[Perfect Circle]

This part of your post shows you understand nothing about true magic at all. I'm going over your head

Right... You're going over MY head.

 

[Perfect Circle]

You don't understand magic

No. You don't understand magic.

Wow! Debating is easy! :yes:

 

[Gentoo]

You don't understand magic

Different people understand things in different ways. He may not see things your way, but that doesn't mean he doesn't understand it at all. I think everyone understands magic(k), they just use different terminology and associations than someone else.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

No. You don't understand magic.

Wow! Debating is easy! :yes:

No it isn't. You're wrong.

Whoa, that was easy!

 

[Mr Cheese]

Right... You're going over MY head.

which is why when we say "magic is the way of the universe"

it ultimatly becomes drivel.....

because its really not specific enough...

we could spend eternity discussing whether God has 5 nipples or not, by first discussing exactly what God is...

or we could discuss if goats are intelligent...and spend eternity doing so, by discussing exactly what a goat is....

we see this when we fail to produce boundaries and essentially do what science does which is to create compromise....

the classic example being, "How long is the coast line of britain?"

the answer being it is of infinite length, because if we used ever increasingly more accurate methods of measurement...we would end up measuring the planc length of the matter that made up the coast line fo britain, in effect then the length of britain's coastline would be infinite.....

we find this again in science when we use totally arbitrary numbers like "the earth is 60, billion years old" which again..if we applied the methodology used to measure the length of the coast line of england...

we would find numbers like the earth is actually 60, billion yrs old,,is scientific compromise and as such is arguably garbage.... but people like their nice comfortable numbers, figures facts... especially in an online discussion forum!

So what are we faced with then?

we are faced with...the method used by benoit mandelbrot to measure the coastline of britain to an infinite length, when used with the word magic.... ends up being meaningless poop....

We are effectively saying the word magic is meaningless and we might as well say chicken.... which is fine and dandy and I have no problem with;

however it does mean any constructive discussion is made into invalid garbage....

chicken=poop=way of the universe

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I'm referring to when Perfect Circle said way back that magic cannot turn people into newts. That's when I knew he knows absolutely nothing about magic. Of course magic can't turn people into newts

 

[Perfect Circle]

really? I see no evidence...

so far we have established:

words are powerful
magic does not involve newts
thinking about sprite is a form of magic
poop can be used to signfy many things,
magic is the way of the universe meaning the universe is actually poop
christians are all performing magic due to the above
Jesus was a hermeticist

:sarcastic

Ex-friggen-zactly...

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I'm referring to when Perfect Circle said way back that magic cannot turn people into newts. That's when I knew he knows absolutely nothing about magic. Of course magic can't turn people into newts

Then knowing that magic cannot turn people into news shows that someone does know something about magic.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Well why would he even throw something that ridicilous out there? Magic cannot turn people into newts- duh!

 

[Mr Cheese]

Well why would he even throw something that ridicilous out there? Magic cannot turn people into newts- duh!

maybe he was being humoros?

................

The Pentabarf is the set of 5 holy laws which all discordians must follow. It is as follows:

1. There is no Goddess but Goddess and She is Your Goddess. There is no Erisian Movement but The Erisian Movement and it is The Erisian Movement. And every Golden Apple Corps is the beloved home of a Golden Worm.
2. A Discordian Shall Always use the Official Discordian Document Numbering System.
3. A Discordian is Required during his early Illumination to Go Off Alone & Partake Joyously of a Hot Dog on a Friday; this Devotive Ceremony to Remonstrate against the popular Paganisms of the Day: of Catholic Christendom (no meat on Friday), of Judaism (no meat of Pork), of Hindic Peoples (no meat of Beef), of Buddhists (no meat of animal), and of Discordians (no Hot Dog Buns).
4. A Discordian shall Partake of No Hot Dog Buns, for Such was the Solace of Our Goddess when She was Confronted with The Original Snub.
5. A Discordian is Prohibited from Believing What he reads.

This is the most fundamental of all dicordian catma.

 

[Perfect Circle]

Well why would he even throw something that ridicilous out there? Magic cannot turn people into newts- duh!

Yosef, meet humor. Humor, Yosef.

 

[Reverend Rick]

yet modern kabbalah didnt begin until the 12th century

oh well, your idea was nice...pity about the huge gaping holes in it

Oh really?

According to Kabbalistic tradition, knowledge was transmitted orally by the Patriarchs, prophets, and sages (Hakhamim in Hebrew), eventually to be "interwoven" into Jewish religious writings and culture. According to this tradition, Kabbalah was, in around the 10th century B.C., an open knowledge practiced by over a million people in ancient Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah

 

[Mr Cheese]

Oh really?

According to Kabbalistic tradition, knowledge was transmitted orally by the Patriarchs, prophets, and sages (Hakhamim in Hebrew), eventually to be "interwoven" into Jewish religious writings and culture. According to this tradition, Kabbalah was, in around the 10th century B.C., an open knowledge practiced by over a million people in ancient Israel.

Kabbalah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

yeah wiki pedia is garbage....

:sarcastic this is news?

Pre or proto kabbalistic practises go back..to gawd knows when...

written accounts of course go back to the hechalot and merkavah mystical practises...

however what is known as kabbalah now, strictly has its roots in 12th century spain... or there abouts...

there is a difference

to infer that Jesus was practising a form of hermetic kabbalah is laughable....
unless you meant somethign different

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Ah... I see. So on the same note, because me flipping people off has the power to affect the world around me... flipping people off is the way of the universe....?

This would be similar to saying that because cheese is a food, cheese is the way of the culinary world.

Flipping people off is as surely a form of magic as any other hex or curse in history, but it would be a part of magic, not magic as the whole.

In other words:
Magic=way of the universe
Flipping people off=a particular form of magic.

I would say that magic is the way of the universe because it works well with how I experience the universe: I am a being composed of living matter moving in a living universe. This is magical and wondrous to me. Suggesting that defining it in this way is meaningless doesn't make sense to me: it obviously has meaning because I perceive it as such.

Does this contradict traditional definitions and dogmatic views? Great! The universe is a dynamic, living thing, and I am a part of it.

How is the way of the universe not magical? How can poop, that amazing representation of the cyclical aspect of life, not be a part of this amazing magical way? How is flipping someone off different in its behavior from a complex Kabbalic ritual if it is composed of a thought manifesting in reality to affect change?

From Aleister Crowley's Magick: In Theory and Practice:

"Every man must do magic each time he acts or thinks...a thought is an internal act whose influence ultimately affects action, though it may not do so at the time."

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Well why would he even throw something that ridicilous out there? Magic cannot turn people into newts- duh!

It was an attempt to make it look absurd, otherwise called an ad absurdum.

Hope that helps.

 

[Perfect Circle]

This would be similar to saying that because cheese is a food, cheese is the way of the culinary world.

Flipping people off is as surely a form of magic as any other hex or curse in history, but it would be a part of magic, not magic as the whole.

In other words:
Magic=way of the universe
Flipping people off=a particular form of magic.

I would say that magic is the way of the universe because it works well with how I experience the universe: I am a being composed of living matter moving in a living universe. This is magical and wondrous to me. Suggesting that defining it in this way is meaningless doesn't make sense to me: it obviously has meaning because I perceive it as such.

Does this contradict traditional definitions and dogmatic views? Great! The universe is a dynamic, living thing, and I am a part of it.

How is the way of the universe not magical? How can poop, that amazing representation of the cyclical aspect of life, not be a part of this amazing magical way? How is flipping someone off different in its behavior from a complex Kabbalic ritual if it is composed of a thought manifesting in reality to affect change?

From Aleister Crowley's Magick: In Theory and Practice:

"Every man must do magic each time he acts or thinks...a thought is an internal act whose influence ultimately affects action, though it may not do so at the time."

rrrriiiiiigggggghhhhhtttttttt....