Christians Only: The Book of Mormon

[idea]

Again: Please you me the same respect I'm showing you rather than pushing/assuming/condensing/etc.

This is a debate forum, I am curious to hear your views but you are avoiding the questions.

Question: What do you think about Holland telling lies over and over again, and what you do think about all the people who "felt the spirit" while Holland was telling lies?

Why are you avoiding my questions though ?

She is avoiding me too.

 

[Jane.Doe]

This is a debate forum, I am curious to hear your views but you are avoiding the questions.

We have already had these discussions. I am being respectful of you and your life's journey, even though I've reached very different conclusions. We've already talked about this thoroughly, and there's zero point in rehashing it. Hence my polite declining to do so. If that's not ok with you, and you instead insist upon pushing your agenda and trying bully me, then I'll have to place you on "ignore".

 

[idea]

Again: Please you me the same respect I'm showing you rather than pushing/assuming/condensing/etc.

We have already had these discussions. I am being respectful of you and your life's journey, even though I've reached very different conclusions. We've already talked about this thoroughly, and there's zero point in rehashing it. Hence my polite declining to do so. If that's not ok with you, and you instead insist upon pushing your agenda and trying bully me, then I'll have to place you on "ignore".

?? I do not remember having these discussions, can you link to it?

 

[Jane.Doe]

?? I do not remember having these discussions, can you link to it?

I do not recall thread titles after many years. If you want I can recap them, but again I have no interest in putting them on re-run and repeating all of the points we already went through.

 

[InChrist]

None of those look particularly reliable. Neutral sites do not seem to give them too much credibility:

Freemasonry - Wikipedia

Wikipedia is not exactly neutral.

Wikipedia Is Badly Biased – Larry Sanger Blog

 

[InChrist]

Why don’t we start looking at the testimonies of ex-Mormons....

Yes, why don’t we?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Wikipedia is not exactly neutral.

Wikipedia Is Badly Biased – Larry Sanger Blog

It looks more like a personal feud than anything else.

Wiki is still a very reliable source. Far more so than what science deniers can come up with.

What sources would you like people to use? Clearly members of that church are far from reliable.

 

[John1.12]

Did I say anything about works saving anyone? Nope. I repeatedly said: faith.

I also do NOT believe in cheap grace: that a saved person says "yeah I believe" with their mouth, and then continue about their exact same-old-same-old-sinful ways. Rather, a disciple of Christ gives their entire heart, might, mind, and soul to Him. That's real faith and rebirth.

Do you believe in cheap grace, Barry?

Grace is just fine on it’s own as it’s found in scripture. Any modifier other than “free,” such as “sovereign,”" Cheap " “irresistible,” or “prevenient” indicate someone is either confused or attempting to confuse. (Rom. 3:24; 5:15; Jn. 1:16; Tit. 2:11-13)

 

[Jane.Doe]

Grace is just fine on it’s own as it’s found in scripture. Any modifier other than “free,” such as “sovereign,”" Cheap " “irresistible,” or “prevenient” indicate someone is either confused or attempting to confuse. (Rom. 3:24; 5:15; Jn. 1:16; Tit. 2:11-13)

So I take it that you also do not believe in cheap grace. *thumbs up*

 

[John1.12]

So I take it that you also do not believe in cheap grace. *thumbs up*

I said ' free ' . Usually when someone has to mention terms such as greasy/ cheap grace they are holding to conditional salvation/ works

 

[Jane.Doe]

I said ' free ' . Usually when someone has to mention terms such as greasy/ cheap grace they are holding to conditional salvation/ works

Here do you agree or disagree with the following statement:
[QUOTE="Jane.Doe, post: 7116570, member: 5851”]I also do NOT believe in cheap grace: that a saved person says "yeah I believe" with their mouth, and then continue about their exact same-old-same-old-sinful ways. Rather, a disciple of Christ gives their entire heart, might, mind, and soul to Him. That's real faith and rebirth. [/QUOTE]

 

[John1.12]

Here do you agree or disagree with the following statement:
[QUOTE="Jane.Doe, post: 7116570, member: 5851”]I also do NOT believe in cheap grace: that a saved person says "yeah I believe" with their mouth, and then continue about their exact same-old-same-old-sinful ways. Rather, a disciple of Christ gives their entire heart, might, mind, and soul to Him. That's real faith and rebirth.

[/QUOTE]
I don't agree with the wording , the dichotomy . I just wouldn't frame it the way you have ,so I can't sensibly answer . I believe that if a person has recieved Jesus ( John 1.12 ) by faith ( 1 cor 1.21 ) and are sealed by the Holy spirit unto the day of redemption ( Eph 4.30 / Eph 1.13 ) Then that person will be with the Lord when he dies . Thats what the bible says . All those that have been sealed by the Holy spirit After receiving Jesus , are SEALED unto the day of redemption.

 

[Jane.Doe]

I don't agree with the wording , the dichotomy . I just wouldn't frame it the way you have ,so I can't sensibly answer . I believe that if a person has recieved Jesus ( John 1.12 ) by faith ( 1 cor 1.21 ) and are sealed by the Holy spirit unto the day of redemption ( Eph 4.30 / Eph 1.13 ) Then that person will be with the Lord when he dies . Thats what the bible says . All those that have been sealed by the Holy spirit After receiving Jesus , are SEALED unto the day of redemption.

Ah, thank you for this post: it very much clarifies what you believe.

As for me, "Mormonism" is not a belief system wherein salvation comes through works. No: salvation is a matter of faith. But believers are indeed strongly encouraged to follow Him (the whole, if ye love me, keep my commandments). But belief comes first: that's the foundation and salvation.

 

[John1.12]

Ah, thank you for this post: it very much clarifies what you believe.

As for me, "Mormonism" is not a belief system wherein salvation comes through works. No: salvation is a matter of faith. But believers are indeed strongly encouraged to follow Him (the whole, if ye love me, keep my commandments). But belief comes first: that's the foundation and salvation.

Mormonism is completely unnecessary.

 

[Jane.Doe]

Mormonism is completely unnecessary.

I acknowledge you thoughts there, though I obviously have reached different conclusions.

 

[InChrist]

It looks more like a personal feud than anything else.

Wiki is still a very reliable source. Far more so than what science deniers can come up with.

What sources would you like people to use? Clearly members of that church are far from reliable.

I use Wikipedia. I’m just saying it’s naive to think it’s a neutral, unbiased source for information. All sources and people have their biases. Even scientists, I hope you realize that. Definitely, religious groups. So I think it’s wise to read and check a variety of sources expressing different perspectives.

 

[InChrist]

Ah, thank you for this post: it very much clarifies what you believe.

As for me, "Mormonism" is not a belief system wherein salvation comes through works. No: salvation is a matter of faith. But believers are indeed strongly encouraged to follow Him (the whole, if ye love me, keep my commandments). But belief comes first: that's the foundation and salvation.

In Mormonism, Jesus is not sufficient, not enough...

https://www.adamsroadministry.com/micah-wilder-testimony

 

[John1.12]

I acknowledge you thoughts there, though I obviously have reached different conclusions.

Yes you probably prayed about it to see if it was true and had a burning in the bosom ?

 

[Jane.Doe]

Yes you probably prayed about it to see if it was true and had a burning in the bosom ?

My conclusions are the results of decades of intensive study of scripture, study of different perseprctives/belief systems, deep thought, and of course major prayer.

Ove also have thoroughly studied Protestant beliefs, including attending services, taking courses, chatting with beleivers, reading books, and asking lots of questions. All of this being of course from Protestants directly.

 

[John1.12]

My conclusions are the results of decades of intensive study of scripture, study of different perseprctives/belief systems, deep thought, and of course major prayer.

Ove also have thoroughly studied Protestant beliefs, including attending services, taking courses, chatting with beleivers, reading books, and asking lots of questions. All of this being of course from Protestants directly.

And the bible?