Congratulations to the British People

[LuisDantas]

I agree, but I don't think that we can make that case (yet).

I do.

 

[Altfish]

Not all of us.

But The Daily Mail, Express, Sun and Telegraph all said it was.

 

[LuisDantas]

You sound as harsh and dismissive of the ‘plebs’ as Macron is.

Yep. I became quite the Macron sympathiser, thanks to the Yellow Vests.

I do not know how he puts up with them quite as much as he does.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

I dont see how not the will of the people can be the will of the people.

One is the will of 37% of the people
One is the will of those who attended the rally

The former is obviously the result of a referendum having been held, the latter not.

 

[LuisDantas]

My point was that it would seem obvious (to me) that one would have to take a stance on those issues, if one thinks through the implications of leaving the EU one way or another (those all being arguably rather fundamental concerns if one is a member of the EU).

But perhaps most did not think through these implications, instead voting leave or remain for other reasons.

That did not answer my question.

Was there, far as you were concerned, some form of implicit stance towards (say) the membership in the Single Market built-in in the Leave vote?

 

[LuisDantas]

@Rival , and anyone else who sees Brexit as a decision to have "no relation whatsoever" with the EU, I must ask you all:

How could that possibly exist in the real world? What is that even supposed to mean, really?

Are you talking about revoking the citizenship of British citizens in other countries, forbidding travels abroad, stopping all trade with the EU? Or what?

Are you even aware that half of the UK's food comes from abroad?

Do you believe or expect that somehow the British economy would turn out stronger after burning bridges with its main trade partner (which, by geography alone, is pretty much destined to remain so indefinitely)?

I am truly failing to see any upside to Brexit, even in the abstract.

 

[Notanumber]

Do you trust David Cameron and other politicians' wisdom that much now? Did you back in the day?

If so, why exactly do you refuse to extend the same courtesy to Theresa May and others in the current day?

It looks quite arbitrary to me.



It was. The referendum was illegal to begin with. That is why it had to be presented as non-binding.

Also, it turns out that No Deal is also illegal, despite still being the default and most likely end result of all this grief and madness.

You know, stopping with that "project fear" nonsense would go a long way towards improving your standing far as credibility goes.



Pretty much all of that is now obsolete. I am not sure of what your point is.



I am not Angela Merkel, but I sure expected more wisdom from the British MPs than they have overall shown. Except for the Independent Group and a few others, that is.

As for the deal, you should probably consider that literally no one has managed to present a better alternative. Mainly because Brexit is such a self-sabotaging proposal, it would seem.



And now you suddenly trust her to her word? How self-serving and how inconsistent.

If Cameron committed a crime against the state, why has he not been brought to justice and why have our leaders continued with the charade?

We have a better alternative. It is called WTO.

BTW, I used to trust her word back in the Lancaster House days but not anymore.

 

[LuisDantas]

If Cameron committed a crime against the state, why has he not been brought to justice and why have our leaders continued with the charade?

We have a better alternative. It is called WTO.

BTW, I used to trust her world back in the Lancaster House days but not anymore.

You have no idea whatsoever of the matters involved with Brexit, nor of its expected consequences, now do you?

 

[Rival]

@Rival , and anyone else who sees Brexit as a decision to have "no relation whatsoever" with the EU, I must ask you all:

How could that possibly exist in the real world? What is that even supposed to mean, really?

Are you talking about revoking the citizenship of British citizens in other countries, forbidding travels abroad, stopping all trade with the EU? Or what?

Are you even aware that half of the UK's food comes from abroad?

Do you believe or expect that somehow the British economy would turn out stronger after burning bridges with its main trade partner (which, by geography alone, is pretty much destined to remain so indefinitely)?

I am truly failing to see any upside to Brexit, even in the abstract.

I see it more like the sort of relationship the UK has to the US. Not a state, but an international friend and trusted ally.

 

[LuisDantas]

I see it more like the sort of relationship the UK has to the US. Not a state, but an international friend and trusted ally.

I can't for the life of me see how Brexit would move you towards such a situation instead of away from it. I really can't.

 

[Rival]

I can't for the life of me see how Brexit would move you towards such a situation instead of away from it. I really can't.

I thought our gov. would be competent enough to forge that sort of a deal with the EU after the referendum. Evidently I had too much confidence.

 

[Notanumber]

You have no idea whatsoever of the matters involved with Brexit, nor of its expected consequences, now do you?

If I do not, I am in the majority.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

But The Daily Mail, Express, Sun and Telegraph all said it was.

Not all of us are readers of those venerable institutions.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

That did not answer my question.

Was there, far as you were concerned, some form of implicit stance towards (say) the membership in the Single Market built-in in the Leave vote?

I can't speak for other voters.

 

[Altfish]

Not all of us are readers of those venerable institutions.

No, indeed, but the vast majority of brexiteers read one of them

 

[Flankerl]

I wasn't sure that 'leaving the EU' could mean anything else. Everyone I spoke to, admittedly not every single leaver voter of course, assumed that it mean totally out. No more ties to the EU whatsoever.

Have you since realised that international relations aren't as simple as that? Please say yes.

Even if the UK goes under WTO rules all the other WTO members have to agree to the UKs schedule. Every single of the other 163 member states.
This is supposedly easier than reaching a deal with 27 member states.

However, no matter the case, people are always going to have different opinions in politics, even if they vote for the same thing; I thought surely the UK government, terrible as it currently is/was, would have had a pre-plan in place for a leave result, and if that meant subsequent votes on certain issues, that would have been fine. They simply didn't offer us that. From the moment the result was announced, the whole government was in chaos and everyone wanted to shove their fingers up their arses and let someone else deal with it.

And why would they have offered you that? You voted for parties that were in favour of staying in the EU in your General Election while you voted to leave the EU in another vote.

How is that supposed to work?
Of course they were and still are in Chaos.

And might I remind you that afterwards Leaver politicians got posts that were directly responsible in the negotiations.
In the very first session with Barnier your side arrived with a single empty piece of paper while the EU side arrived with files after files.
Not even your Leaver politicians were prepared. Almost as if they were talking out of their...

I lay the blame here solely on the UK government, not the EU.

The problem is that it's also your fault to quite a high degree.
Sure you were lied to and they simply didn't tell you the truth about their preparation for the project they spearheaded, but the other side did.
Quite literally everyone else did.
Throughout Europe people tried their best to leave you undisturbed in your grand project but from time they made it clear that it won't be easy afterwards.

 

[ChristineM]

The former is obviously the result of a referendum having been held, the latter not.

Yes, a referendum taken without giving the voting public thr facts and driven by lies.

The other is the result of those lies and can arguably be seen as the will of the people now they know the relevant information

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, a referendum taken without giving the voting public thr facts and driven by lies.

The other is the result of those lies and can arguably be seen as the will of the people now they now the relevant information

But that is not fair. They are likely to vote down on the Brexit if that were to happen

Seriously if the British people vote "Yes" a second time then I have no pity for them. And you can count yourself lucky to be in France. But then I do not think they will make the same mistake twice.

 

[ChristineM]

But that is not fair. They are likely to vote down on the Brexit if that were to happen

Seriously if the British people vote "Yes" a second time then I have no pity for them. And you can count yourself lucky to be in France. But then I do not think they will make the same mistake twice.

I believe that is what the brexiters are so scared of.

A government petition
Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.
now with over 5 million signatures.

Petition: Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Yes, a referendum taken without giving the voting public thr facts and driven by lies.

The lack of reliable information was indeed most unfortunate.

The other is the result of those lies and can arguably be seen as the will of the people now they know the relevant information

I'm not sure we can say this about a rally. After all, there was a large number of those voting remain (not to mention non-voting friends).