Cop murders 12 year old boy

[Father Heathen]

It's just as annoying to be portrayed as somebody who doesn't look at facts, FH.

Let's - yet again - stop making this about me and look at the argument. I predicted correctly that people would say the kid brought it on himself, so take an example from your wife and treat me with more respect next time if you disagree.

So addressing the sentiments or statements that you've shared regarding the subject being discussed "makes it about you"? I genuinely don't get it. Your posts can be rather smug, smarmy, and condescending at times and it's fine, but when you feel that you're receiving the same in kind then it's "personal".
Also, I think the part of the problem could be that my criticisms of social attitudes in general are perceived as criticisms of individuals in particular.

As for your "prediction", yes, of course people are going to say such because that's how it was reported. Kid fails to comply with cops and reaches for what they believe to be a weapon, so they respond as they're trained to do. Undeniably tragic, but what else is there to say?

 

[Draka]

Stories like this enrage me.

Out of curiosity, just what about this story enrages you? That the boy ended up dead? No matter the circumstances? Do you take affront at the officer doing exactly what he was trained to do, and should have, given it was the logical course of action? That people are blaming the cop? That people are blaming the boy and/or his parents? What do you find so infuriating about this story exactly?

 

[freethinker44]

It's hyperbole and melodrama like that spread all over the internet that exacerbate an already tragic event. The police posed no danger to the rest of the people in the park.

It's not hyperbole or melodrama, it's exactly what happened. Everyone was completely safe and happy playing at the park until the police showed up and killed a kid.

 

[Jainarayan]

It's not hyperbole or melodrama, it's exactly what happened. Everyone was completely safe and happy playing at the park until the police showed up and killed a kid.

Riiight... that's why someone called 911 to say someone was waving and pointing a gun at other people. Yep, that makes me feel happy and safe. I don't think you're serious, so it's time to end this little game.

 

[freethinker44]

Out of curiosity, just what about this story enrages you? That the boy ended up dead? No matter the circumstances? Do you take affront at the officer doing exactly what he was trained to do, and should have, given it was the logical course of action? That people are blaming the cop? That people are blaming the boy and/or his parents? What do you find so infuriating about this story exactly?

If cops are trained to escalate the situation from kids playing in a park to a deadly stand-off, then their training is wrong. How is it easier and more justified for a cop to kill a kid playing in a park then it is for a soldier to kill a possible enemy combatant with a fully automatic assault rifle at the ready in a war zone? Why do we respect the lives of terrorists more than we do the lives of American children?

 

[Draka]

It's not hyperbole or melodrama, it's exactly what happened. Everyone was completely safe and happy playing at the park until the police showed up and killed a kid.

Oh bull. How do you know they were "safe and happy"? I'm sure I wouldn't feel safe nor happy had someone just pointed what appeared to be a real gun at me. Which is what was going on in that park that day. Not to mention, it may not have been an actual semiautomatic, but it was a pellet gun. He could have well hurt someone. The gun appeared to be genuine, there was enough logical assumption that he could shoot someone, possibly kill someone, the officer did exactly what he should have done, what he was trained to do. Fact is, if the gun did happen to be real and the officer didn't respond as such, we could be hearing about how a 12y/o shot a cop or went on a shooting spree in the park. It wasn't known. The officer did the only thing he knew to do to possibly protect everyone. Take down the assailant.

 

[freethinker44]

Riiight... that's why someone called 911 to say someone was waving and pointing a gun at other people. Yep, that makes me feel happy and safe. I don't think you're serious, so it's time to end this little game.

No, "probably a juvenile" and "probably a fake gun". There you go, I corrected your melodramatic hyperbole for you.

 

[Draka]

If cops are trained to escalate the situation from kids playing in a park to a deadly stand-off, then their training is wrong. How is it easier and more justified for a cop to kill a kid playing in a park then it is for a soldier to kill a possible enemy combatant with a fully automatic assault rifle at the ready in a war zone? Why do we respect the lives of terrorists more than we do the lives of American children?

 

[freethinker44]

Oh bull. How do you know they were "safe and happy"? I'm sure I wouldn't feel safe nor happy had someone just pointed what appeared to be a real gun at me. Which is what was going on in that park that day. Not to mention, it may not have been an actual semiautomatic, but it was a pellet gun. He could have well hurt someone. The gun appeared to be genuine, there was enough logical assumption that he could shoot someone, possibly kill someone, the officer did exactly what he should have done, what he was trained to do. Fact is, if the gun did happen to be real and the officer didn't respond as such, we could be hearing about how a 12y/o shot a cop or went on a shooting spree in the park. It wasn't known. The officer did the only thing he knew to do to possibly protect everyone. Take down the assailant.

Even the caller across the street from the park thought it was a fake gun. Did you even listen to the 911 call? He's just describing kids playing in the park. At one point he even says he's on the swing set. So they were safe and happy playing in the park until the police showed up and murdered one of them.

 

[Father Heathen]

I expect cops to be held to the same standards and laws that govern everyone else. If the 911 caller, instead of calling the police, went into the park and pulled a gun on the kid and shot him the same way the cops did, would it still have been justified?

Obviously your average pivate citizen doen't have the same training or authority as a cop. They can't seek out and confront people like that. They can only have their weapon drawn and shoot in self defense when directly confronted by a clear and immediate threat. Also, it's quote silly to expect people to hesitate and try to discern their age and whether or not what appears to be a real gun actually is when someone is pointing it at you threateningly.

 

[Jainarayan]

No, "probably a juvenile" and "probably a fake gun". There you go, I corrected your melodramatic hyperbole for you.

OK, I see... an anonymous 911 caller's word must be taken as truth. Yep, works for me.

Wait, wut!? I said I was done (but this is like eating Lay's Potato Chips... can't eat just one).

 

[Jainarayan]

3. There is no such thing as a toy gun, every gun is real, loaded and ready to fire.

Which is why Squeaky Fromme was sent to prison for pointing a toy gun at President Ford.

 

[Father Heathen]

It's not hyperbole or melodrama, it's exactly what happened. Everyone was completely safe and happy playing at the park until the police showed up and killed a kid.

If people felt safe and happy, why would they make a 911 call about someone they thought might be waving a gun around?

 

[Draka]

Even the caller across the street from the park thought it was a fake gun. Did you even listen to the 911 call? He's just describing kids playing in the park. At one point he even says he's on the swing set. So they were safe and happy playing in the park until the police showed up and murdered one of them.

I listened to it. The person said once that it was "probably fake" and then later said they didn't know if it was real or not. They also said he kept pulling it out of his pants, pointing it at people and scaring them. they also said the kid was "probably a juvenile". Now that means under 18, they didn't know if it was real or not, he was randomly pointing it at people and scaring them. So...perhaps the kid was safe and happy, but it doesn't sound like the rest of the people there probably felt safe or happy. I know I wouldn't if I saw that thing pulled out and pointed at me. It would scare the crap out of me and I certainly would not be happy about it.

Given the situation, the known facts, the cop acted appropriately.

 

[Father Heathen]

Even the caller across the street from the park thought it was a fake gun. Did you even listen to the 911 call? He's just describing kids playing in the park. At one point he even says he's on the swing set. So they were safe and happy playing in the park until the police showed up and murdered one of them.

Why would they bother to call 911 if they didn't think there was a potential danger? Also, the dispatcher didn't relay the caller's speculation to the cops, not that cops should presume something is safe based on a bystander's speculation.

 

[freethinker44]

If people felt safe and happy, why would they make a 911 call about someone they thought might be waving a gun around?

The people in the park didn't call 911. A guy across the street did, and he said it was probably a kid and probably a fake gun. Sounded like he wasn't even sure he should be calling, but just in case, you know.

 

[Draka]

The people in the park didn't call 911. A guy across the street did, and he said it was probably a kid and probably a fake gun. Sounded like he wasn't even sure he should be calling, but just in case, you know.

Boy for someone who claims to have really listened, you didn't listen very well. The person said they were sitting IN the park across from the station. They weren't across the street from the park, they were in the park where this was happening.

 

[Yerda]

Poor child.

 

[Father Heathen]

The people in the park didn't call 911. A guy across the street did, and he said it was probably a kid and probably a fake gun. Sounded like he wasn't even sure he should be calling, but just in case, you know.

And cops are trained to treat such reports as potentually real, just in case. Kid didn't comply with orders and reached for it. Cops then acted as they're trained to.
Would you rather cops wait and see if they get shot before taking action in such situations?

 

[Draka]

And cops are trained to treat such reports as potentually real, just in case. Kid didn't comply with orders and reached for it. Cops then acted as they're trained to.
Would you rather cops wait and see if they get shot before taking action in such situations?

The way he speaks about cops I'd assume that he has no issue with dead cops.