Culture clash in the hallway

[.lava]

Money, companies pay you a fortune and you don't live under Sharia the Saudis put you in compounds.

maybe this guys has the same reason to live in Canada, money.





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[Smoke]

i don't know. why would Western go Saudi Arabia and live there even though they hate Sharia?

I can't imagine. Nothing could induce me even to visit Saudi Arabia, much less go there to live.

However, you can be sure that Canada doesn't treat fundamentalist Muslims the way Saudi Arabia treats foreigners who flout Islamic law. So what's your beef about Canada?

 

[.lava]

Do they keep their opinions to themselves and stay out of trouble or do they actively seek out confrontations with the locals over their practice of sharia?

how 'seeking out confrontations with the locals practicing sharia' is equal 'not saying hello' or complaining about it?




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[.lava]

So what's your beef about Canada?

i am sorry, i am not familiar with the expression 'beef'. what do you mean by that question?




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[Smoke]

i am sorry, i am not familiar with the expression 'beef'. what do you mean by that question?

Sorry. In this context, it means "complaint."

 

[.lava]

Sorry. In this context, it means "complaint."

i do not have complaint about Canada on this subject. why?





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[Father Heathen]

how 'seeking out confrontations with the locals practicing sharia' is equal 'not saying hello' or complaining about it?

The subject in the OP article sought to cause conflict and a confrontation over something that's an accepted social norm and considered a courteous gesture in that country. If he found an innocent and friendly greeting so damn offensive he could've simply ignored him rather than needlessly cause trouble over it.

 

[Panda]

maybe this guys has the same reason to live in Canada, money.

Not the same thing as it is normally short term people move to Saudi for.

 

[Madhuri]

I have a complaint about Canada.
Too cold!
Otherwise I'd be there in a heartbeat.

 

[.lava]

The subject in the OP article sought to cause conflict and a confrontation over something that's an accepted social norm and considered a courteous gesture in that country. If he found an innocent and friendly greeting so damn offensive he could've simply ignored him rather than needlessly cause trouble over it.

yes, i agree with that. as i told you before, we would agree about the incident itself. i find it weird that that guy was disturbed by someone saying hello. i say hello even to complete strangers in case i meet them in the hall way. i think that's a humane way to show respect to their existence. that's how i am. some people would not respond to me so who cares? i feel little heart broken but i do not care. if i feel i am disturbing someone by saying hello, then i would not say it. maybe this guy kept saying hello even though he knew he was disturbing them. can you say he was not aware of that? we do not know details. details are important.






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[.lava]

Not the same thing as it is normally short term people move to Saudi for.

if we are talking about money, yes they are not even close. Canada would not pay someone as much as Saudi pay foreigners. money they gain in 5 years in Saudi Arabia would not be equal money that Muslim gets in 5 years. but still Canada may be paying him more than he could get in his own nation.





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[Vile Atheist]

what was he supposed to do? he chosed official way and i personally think that is the best way if one wants to keep distance with the other person who he complaint about.

And the death threats? Is that the "official way" too?

dear, your reaction also comes from cultural differences. so what's the difference between you and that Muslim guy under the light of 'being different'?

Because I live here and I was born here. He chose to come to a place where obviously he does not belong if he gets so offended by a simple greeting. Do you see me living in Saudi Arabia? No? There's a damn good reason for that.

such as...??

Such as telling the guy something along the lines of "While my wife and I appreciate your politeness, we are rather secluded people and would prefer to remain that way." No death threats or complaints needed. It gets the point across in a polite way and everyone gets what they want. Resorting to shouting matches and death threats because someone wishes you a good morning is not a civilized way to act.

stop talking about it as if you witnessed it. there are poit people all over and there is no doubt there are impolite people in Canada as well. this is so funny cos you talk like all the Western people live together like a family. that is not true. whoever comes in here are so amazed by 'warmness' of Muslims and we all know it why

Uhh...I'm not talking about it as if I've witnessed it. All I've said is if he's so offended by a simple greeting, this isn't a country he belongs in. That's all. You're reading too much into that in order to set up some foolish strawman so you can accuse me of racism.

what now? should i send a youtube video where you can see a parrot says 'hello'?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, but I'm just going to assume it's a miscommunication due to a language barrier and leave it at that.

get a fake name and ID like Ahmad, try to tal to people, maybe apply for a job or something, then tell me about racism.

My old Catholic high school employs a Muslim. His son is the Student Council President. My optometrist is from Iran. My family doctor is from Egypt.

...What were you saying about jobs and racism again?

yea OK, but as i tried to said before, why did this complaint occur now? why not before? why did it happen now? so this gu has never ever met husband before. what's the logical explanation here?

Yes, you raise a legitimate point here. There may be something left out or mistold. But since we have no other reliable information, we have no choice but to take the news article at face value and add words like "If" to our sentences.

"If this guy is offended over a polite greeting on the basis of culture, this isn't a country he belongs in."

if Muslim woman was not disturbed or if she did not ask help from her husband, nothing could have happened. appearently she was disturbed. so she talked aout it to her husband. it is the woman who rejects contact with stranger man. how is this not paralel with your equal rights between man and woman?

Because there is such a thing as "proportional response".

Say you and I are living next door to each other. You need to borrow something from me - let's say a rake. So you go on over a borrow the rake from me. A week later, I still don't have my rake back. Would you agree that it would be just if I murdered your spouse and children in response?

I doubt you would. Say you and I are living next door to each other and I say "Hello" to your spouse. You then come to my house, start yelling at me, file a complaint with my landlady, and utter death threats to me. Yeah, that's not a very proportional response. This is one of the main problems we're having here. Shouting matches and death threats are not an appropriate and proportional response to a polite greeting.

honor killings are illegal but what he did, making an official complaint is legal so that was what he did. he is acting according to Western laws but you still do not accept it. WEIRD!!!

Uttering death threats is not allowed under any Western law.

Muslims cover women? what? women can not cover themselves

Women are certainly most capable of covering themselves. But in some Muslim nations - like Afghanistan - women are forced to wear the burka on pain of punishment. This is why I applaud the Muslim women who choose not to wear the burka. It is a symbol of oppression.

i think that is utterly unacceptable and against Islam.

I'm glad you agree

ohh i am afraid 1.5 million Iraqis who got killed by Westerns were not gay enough. yea that makes sense!!

Unfortunately your sentence doesn't. However, like I said earlier, I revile all suffering and pain. My heart goes out to those 1.5 million Iraqis.

do you have any idea how we feel about that? i think you care nothing but how you feel. since all you saying is 'me me me'.

I have done no such thing. The totality of my posts have been concerned with defending the rights and freedoms of other groups. Quite the opposite of what you are saying.

says who? a citizen of a nation that got into another nation and ruined it for oil?? or some other who entered another nation and tortured children infront of their fathers??

When did Canada do this? We have our own oil. Not to mention the good we've done for the nation of Afghanistan. Again, I'll post the Canadian Forces' accomplishments for you to see just how we "torture children in front of their fathers":


- Over 1500 wells, 180 km of irrigation canals, 600 culverts in Kandahar (2003 to Mar 2008),

- over 5,000 km of roads have been built or refurbished nationwide,

- more than 7 million children targeted for polio vaccination nationwide through March 2009; including approximately 350,000 in Kandahar province (2007-08),

- Over 523,000 mines have been destroyed in Afghanistan as of May 2008,

-close to 6 million children (1/3 girls) enrolled in school, 2007-2008 (2001: 700,000, boys only),

- in Kandahar: over 30,000 people provided functional literacy training and over 4,000 received vocational skills training through World Food Programme
in 2007; another 5,000+ students receiving literacy training through UNICEF,

- per capita income has doubled between 2002 and 2007,

- over 80% of Afghans now have access to basic medical care (vs. 9% in 2004),

- infant mortality down 22% since 2001: 40,000 more babies survive every year; under-5 child mortality down 26%,

- over 5 million refugees have returned since 2002; over 197,00 in 2008 (to July) and 365,000 in 2007, with UNHCR assistance,

- 63,000 former combatants disarmed/demobilized; 85,000 light weapons collected; 16,000 heavy weapons secured ,

-Humanitarian demining: nearly 1.3 billion square metres of land cleared since 1989; 55% decrease in monthly numbers of victims from levels just 6 years ago.

you were trutly free you would notbe saying all these ignorant stuff.

Ignorant? Then why is there a massive lobby in Europe for Sharia law to be implemented? Why are there stories like these on the news? And not just rarely, they happen fairly frequently.

This is an attempt to change our core values and beliefs and replace them with ones contradictory to them.

says the man who actually making an official act equal honor killings....?

What do you mean by "official act"? I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

oh i did right away and i think you junked some coffein into your veins then replied.

Or you simply equate any legitimate criticism or abuse of Islam as "racist" or "intolerant". Either way.

what i see for decades millions of Muslims DEAD...your words and Muslim blood!!

Oooooh!!!! All that freedom and equality for all I'm talking about yeah....and LOTS of Muslim blood!!!! /sarcasm

That's a pretty big accusation you are making there. Care to quote me where I call for Muslim blood? Hmmm?

how is it against human rights?

How are death threats against human rights? No wonder there is a misunderstanding of cultures, here. You're a barbarian.

yet it is his right not to talk to him. you have a problem with that?

It is his every right not to talk to him. But it is also the author's every right to live free of death threats and harassment (shouting matches, as mentioned in the article).

but it is OK to claim refusing saying hello is equal killing someone. OK, got it!

Go on. Quote me. Where did I say this?

 

[Vile Atheist]

Oh and by the way, lava, my friend Corporal Tony Boneca died in Afghanistan so little girls can go to school without acid being thrown in their faces.

You spit on his memory by accusing him of "torturing children in front of their fathers".

 

[.lava]

And the death threats? Is that the "official way" too?

it uses the word 'allusion'. death threats is more like 'i will kill you if you....'

Because I live here and I was born here. He chose to come to a place where obviously he does not belong if he gets so offended by a simple greeting. Do you see me living in Saudi Arabia? No? There's a damn good reason for that.

if he committed a crime your government would punish him. is there a crime? you say he does not belong there. what is he? a space alien? he is there. Canada lets him be there.

Such as telling the guy something along the lines of "While my wife and I appreciate your politeness, we are rather secluded people and would prefer to remain that way." No death threats or complaints needed. It gets the point across in a polite way and everyone gets what they want. Resorting to shouting matches and death threats because someone wishes you a good morning is not a civilized way to act.

you think i disagree with that? wake up, you barbarian.

Uhh...I'm not talking about it as if I've witnessed it. All I've said is if he's so offended by a simple greeting, this isn't a country he belongs in. That's all. You're reading too much into that in order to set up some foolish strawman so you can accuse me of racism.

quote me where i call you racist, please. yes, go quote..

and yes, you talk about it as if you witness it. guy writes about the incident and he is the one who says hellos. of course he would take his own side. he says 'allusions' and you as if you were there, directly share his unknown perception and talk about it as a death threat. can you say this Canadian was not paranoid about Muslims? i certainly do not know. do you know?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, but I'm just going to assume it's a miscommunication due to a language barrier and leave it at that.

saying 'hello' could be done by a parrot. that's what i am saying.

My old Catholic high school employs a Muslim. His son is the Student Council President. My optometrist is from Iran. My family doctor is from Egypt.

...What were you saying about jobs and racism again?

you might be confusing me with someone else. are you?

Yes, you raise a legitimate point here. There may be something left out or mistold. But since we have no other reliable information, we have no choice but to take the news article at face value and add words like "If" to our sentences.

yes and that 'reliable' source is the guy himself. details matter.

"If this guy is offended over a polite greeting on the basis of culture, this isn't a country he belongs in."

Because there is such a thing as "proportional response".

yes, there is. so?

Say you and I are living next door to each other. You need to borrow something from me - let's say a rake. So you go on over a borrow the rake from me. A week later, I still don't have my rake back. Would you agree that it would be just if I murdered your spouse and children in response?

as someone who keeps promises, i would have brought back your rake on the time i promised.

I doubt you would. Say you and I are living next door to each other and I say "Hello" to your spouse. You then come to my house, start yelling at me, file a complaint with my landlady, and utter death threats to me. Yeah, that's not a very proportional response. This is one of the main problems we're having here. Shouting matches and death threats are not an appropriate and proportional response to a polite greeting.

Uttering death threats is not allowed under any Western law.

ohh...death threats are illegal in here too. bizarre world huh?

Women are certainly most capable of covering themselves. But in some Muslim nations - like Afghanistan - women are forced to wear the burka on pain of punishment. This is why I applaud the Muslim women who choose not to wear the burka. It is a symbol of oppression.

I'm glad you agree

Unfortunately your sentence doesn't. However, like I said earlier, I revile all suffering and pain. My heart goes out to those 1.5 million Iraqis.

OK your heart goes....noone really talks about it though. it is just a bad memory.

I have done no such thing. The totality of my posts have been concerned with defending the rights and freedoms of other groups. Quite the opposite of what you are saying.

When did Canada do this? We have our own oil. Not to mention the good we've done for the nation of Afghanistan. Again, I'll post the Canadian Forces' accomplishments for you to see just how we "torture children in front of their fathers":


- Over 1500 wells, 180 km of irrigation canals, 600 culverts in Kandahar (2003 to Mar 2008),

- over 5,000 km of roads have been built or refurbished nationwide,

- more than 7 million children targeted for polio vaccination nationwide through March 2009; including approximately 350,000 in Kandahar province (2007-08),

- Over 523,000 mines have been destroyed in Afghanistan as of May 2008,

-close to 6 million children (1/3 girls) enrolled in school, 2007-2008 (2001: 700,000, boys only),

- in Kandahar: over 30,000 people provided functional literacy training and over 4,000 received vocational skills training through World Food Programme
in 2007; another 5,000+ students receiving literacy training through UNICEF,

- per capita income has doubled between 2002 and 2007,

- over 80% of Afghans now have access to basic medical care (vs. 9% in 2004),

- infant mortality down 22% since 2001: 40,000 more babies survive every year; under-5 child mortality down 26%,

- over 5 million refugees have returned since 2002; over 197,00 in 2008 (to July) and 365,000 in 2007, with UNHCR assistance,

- 63,000 former combatants disarmed/demobilized; 85,000 light weapons collected; 16,000 heavy weapons secured ,

-Humanitarian demining: nearly 1.3 billion square metres of land cleared since 1989; 55% decrease in monthly numbers of victims from levels just 6 years ago.

i haven't investigated on Canada yet. i do not trust Western governments.

Ignorant? Then why is there a massive lobby in Europe for Sharia law to be implemented? Why are there stories like these on the news? And not just rarely, they happen fairly frequently.

This is an attempt to change our core values and beliefs and replace them with ones contradictory to them.[/quote]

frequently...don't i know that?!

What do you mean by "official act"? I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

he complaint about it officially and you say it is equal honor killings.

Or you simply equate any legitimate criticism or abuse of Islam as "racist" or "intolerant". Either way.

Oooooh!!!! All that freedom and equality for all I'm talking about yeah....and LOTS of Muslim blood!!!!

That's a pretty big accusation you are making there. Care to quote me where I call for Muslim blood? Hmmm?

i did not say you call for Muslim blood. i said all i am saying is dead Muslims as all i hear is Westerns complaint about Muslims.

How are death threats against human rights? No wonder there is a misunderstanding of cultures, here.

i do not approve death threats.

You're a barbarian.

i love you too.

It is his every right not to talk to him. But it is also the author's every right to live free of death threats and harassment (shouting matches, as mentioned in the article).

all i can read is what's quoted from article. if there is more, i am sorry but link would not open.





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[.lava]

Oh and by the way, lava, my friend Corporal Tony Boneca died in Afghanistan so little girls can go to school without acid being thrown in their faces.

You spit on his memory by accusing him of "torturing children in front of their fathers".

i did not accuse anyone personally. was not your friend, they were American troops in Iraq.





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[Vile Atheist]

Hahahaha, this has happened twice now in the same thread.

I read your reply and say that while you largely missed my point (and very likely I misunderstood yours to the same degree) and there were some difficulties of communications because of language (which is nobody's fault. Your English is far better than my Arabic), I think I see it now.

I was going to do the same thing with you as I did to eselam by having you answer one question - yes or no. But I decided I've seen what I need to see and that is:

i do not approve death threats.

Good. Thank you .

That's all I needed to hear. Peace.

 

[Vile Atheist]

i did not accuse anyone personally. was not your friend, they were American troops in Iraq.

Okay, fine.

But don't you think there are some US soldiers in Iraq who believe in helping others? Who don't take part in the torture and killings? Who actually rebuild infrastructure and protect innocent civilians?

There are many Corporal Tony Bonecas in the US Army who believe in doing good for this world. And I hope to be one of them by joining the Canadian Forces when I'm done university. There are many of us who find that going to another country and directly helping the people - protecting them from violence, giving them medicine, rebuilding their homes and cities, and giving them a stable government - is the right thing to do.

 

[Sahar]

Hahahaha, this has happened twice now in the same thread.

I read your reply and say that while you largely missed my point (and very likely I misunderstood yours to the same degree) and there were some difficulties of communications because of language (which is nobody's fault. Your English is far better than my Arabic), I think I see it now.

I was going to do the same thing with you as I did to eselam by having you answer one question - yes or no. But I decided I've seen what I need to see and that is:

Why did you assume that lava speaks Arabic?!

 

[Vile Atheist]

Why did you assume that lava speaks Arabic?!

High probability. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.

Edit: And it appears that it is in his signature

Is "Al huda" not Arabic?

 

[Sahar]

High probability. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.

Why high probability?!