Culture clash in the hallway

[Circle_One]

In the US, if anyone -- regardless of where they are from -- behaved that way regarding someone saying hello to his wife, he would probably face social sanctions. There's no law saying you cannot be touchy about someone saying hello to your wife. But law or no law, such a person would likely be shunned and talked badly about. So, free country or not, it would not be wise to violate the social expectations of the majority of the people.

I would also like to add that had this been a white man with a white wife and a white neighbour said hello, and the white husband acted like this, there's a damn good chance that some sort of authorities would be informed and the marriage looked into, to make sure the white husband was not beating his white wife.

 

[Vile Atheist]

I would also like to add that had this been a white man with a white wife and a white neighbour said hello, and the white husband acted like this, there's a damn good chance that some sort of authorities would be informed and the marriage looked into, to make sure the white husband was not beating his white wife.

Another very true point.

 

[Sahar]

1) He filed a complaint.

Isn't this a civilized course of action? :sarcastic

But while we're on the subject...

Do you have any idea how us Westerners feel when Muslims cover their women in burkas?

Do you have any idea how us Westerners feel when Afghani law dictates a man can withhold food from his wife until he gets sex?

Do you have any idea how us Westerners feel when Muslims torture and execute gays in Iraq?

Do you have any idea how us Westerners feel when Muslims execute someone for choosing to follow another religion besides Islam?

Do you have any idea how us Westerners feel when Muslim nations use barbaric, medieval punishments for crimes?

Do you have any idea how us Westerners feel when Muslims come to our Western nations and try to devalue all we've worked hard to achieve? Centuries of free-thinking? Hard fought and won freedoms?

Do you have any idea how us Westerners feel when we condemn all these things and in turn are called "racist" and "intolerant"?

Let me know when you get around to these questions, friend.

As a matter of fact, I have my list of questions too,
Do you have any idea how us Muslims feel when Muslim women are banned from wearing their hijab although you brag about your freedom?

Do you have any idea how us Muslims feel when Westerners bare their women?

Do you have any idea how us Muslims felt when we saw the pictures of the noble American and British soldiers torturing the prisoners in Iraq?

Do you have any idea how us Muslims feel when you brag about human rights while supporting the Israel's crimes,massacres and racism?

Do you have any idea how us Muslims feel when you come with your troops in our countries and steel our natural resources?

Do you have any idea how us Muslims feel when you support sexual deviance?

Do you have any idea how us Muslims feel about the Western hypocrisy?


See, I know there are things wrong here but I also know that you have many things wrong there...

I believe that Islam and the West are two opposites...not just cultural clash but ideological clash...

 

[blackout]

This thread itself is a real example of culture clash in the (RF)hallway
due to lack of clear connective communication.

I just found that interesting.

 

[Vile Atheist]

Isn't this a civilized course of action? :sarcastic

"Still, it was enough of an affront for the man -- once a doctor somewhere in the Middle East, my landlady clarified -- to feel I had broken a cultural taboo. The incident started an awkward feud which has involved warnings not to repeat my indiscretion and one face-to-face shouting match, which included allusions to my impending death."

...Oh yeah....VERY civilized.

As a matter of fact, I have my list of questions too,
Do you have any idea how us Muslims feel when Muslim women are banned from wearing their hijab although you brag about your freedom?

Actually very few Western nations have banned the hijab. The only one I can actually think of is France and I'm not even sure if they went ahead and banned it.

So where is this "banning" you speak of?

In fact, whenever I'm in Ottawa and go to the St. Laurent Mall, there are a lot of Muslim women there wearing hijabs. And they don't even receive any funny looks. The children aren't frightened and the horses are not skittish. I'm not sure where you are getting this from.

Do you have any idea how us Muslims feel when Westerners bare their women?

Allah forbid women get to choose to wear what they wish. Ironic, as you complain in your previous question about how Muslim women are apparently "banned" from wearing a hijab.

Do you have any idea how us Muslims felt when we saw the pictures of the noble American and British soldiers torturing the prisoners in Iraq?

About the same as I felt when thousands of Americans died on 9/11. I give no justification for their actions. I revile them as much as you do. I revile all brutality and suffering.

Do you have any idea how us Muslims feel when you brag about human rights while supporting the Israel's crimes,massacres and racism?

Though some Western governments support Israel (not all), there are vast amounts of people within the West that oppose Israel's crimes, massacres, and racism. Myself included in that.

Do you have any idea how us Muslims feel when you come with your troops in our countries and steel our natural resources?

Canada has done no such thing. In fact, Canada in Afghanistan has not only beat back the Taliban from the Kandahar area. The stark reality is that there can be no progress in Afghanistan without security. The Canadian Forces, along with Afghan security forces, are helping to create a secure environment where good governance and development can be promoted and sustained.

Just a few of the accomplishments of ISAF, Canada and the Canadian Forces;

- Over 1500 wells, 180 km of irrigation canals, 600 culverts in Kandahar (2003 to Mar 2008),

- over 5,000 km of roads have been built or refurbished nationwide,

- more than 7 million children targeted for polio vaccination nationwide through March 2009; including approximately 350,000 in Kandahar province (2007-08),

- Over 523,000 mines have been destroyed in Afghanistan as of May 2008,

-close to 6 million children (1/3 girls) enrolled in school, 2007-2008 (2001: 700,000, boys only),

- in Kandahar: over 30,000 people provided functional literacy training and over 4,000 received vocational skills training through World Food Programme
in 2007; another 5,000+ students receiving literacy training through UNICEF,

- per capita income has doubled between 2002 and 2007,

- over 80% of Afghans now have access to basic medical care (vs. 9% in 2004),

- infant mortality down 22% since 2001: 40,000 more babies survive every year; under-5 child mortality down 26%,

- over 5 million refugees have returned since 2002; over 197,00 in 2008 (to July) and 365,000 in 2007, with UNHCR assistance,

- 63,000 former combatants disarmed/demobilized; 85,000 light weapons collected; 16,000 heavy weapons secured ,

-Humanitarian demining: nearly 1.3 billion square metres of land cleared since 1989; 55% decrease in monthly numbers of victims from levels just 6 years ago.

Do you have any idea how us Muslims feel when you support sexual deviance?

We do not support any such thing. We support the right for people to express themselves however they want in the bedroom, so long as they don't hurt anyone.

Do you have any idea how us Muslims feel about the Western hypocrisy?

...Such as?

See, I know there are things wrong here but I also know that you have many things wrong there...

Sure the West has its problems. But we are a far cry away from having laws that call for stoning people to death. Or having walls pushed on them.

I believe that Islam and the West are two opposites...not just cultural clash but ideological clash...

Okay, I'll agree.

 

[Sahar]

In the US, if anyone -- regardless of where they are from -- behaved that way regarding someone saying hello to his wife, he would probably face social sanctions. There's no law saying you cannot be touchy about someone saying hello to your wife. But law or no law, such a person would likely be shunned and talked badly about. So, free country or not, it would not be wise to violate the social expectations of the majority of the people.

Well, I agree to some extent, but not all the social expectations can be fulfilled by a Muslim...for example, if kisses between a man and a woman were the standard greeting somewhere, the Muslim would have to violate such social expectation...
Of course I believe that Muslims living in a western country should try their best to coexist and be flexible but not at expense of his/her religion.

 

[jamaesi]

I find it amusing that people want him thrown out of the nation for not doing anything illegal, just something they don't like. Could you imagine all the people who would have been thrown out of America during the Bush years if being "un-American" was grounds for deportation?

We don't know exactly what happened that angered the husband, it could be something that was conveniently left out. The author is also a clueless git with an obvious bias talking out of his *** because no, Don't You Dare Speak to My Wife 101 isn't a required course for a "Muslim upbringing."

Ridonculous. I don't have enough popcorn for this thread.

I would also like to add that had this been a white man with a white wife and a white neighbour said hello, and the white husband acted like this, there's a damn good chance that some sort of authorities would be informed and the marriage looked into, to make sure the white husband was not beating his white wife.

I really do wish what you said is true.

However, domestic abuse victims get the **** end of the stick no matter their race or what religion they follow or where they live.

 

[Smoke]

Do you have any idea how us Muslims feel when Westerners bare their women?

I always find it interesting when Muslims say things like this, as if they honestly can't see women as anything but chattel. Muslims have "their" women and Westerners have "their" women, and if Western women don't dress like the most conservative Muslim women, it's because Westerners have bared "their" women.

It's a line of argument that doesn't even acknowledge women as Muslims, Westerners, or even as fully human beings. It's disturbing enough when Muslim men take these attitudes; when Muslim women embrace them, it's mind-boggling.

Western women dress themselves. A Western woman who sought her husband's permission to dress as she pleased would be considered a pathetic doormat.

I can't imagine any reason for anybody in his right mind to give a damn what Muslims think about how Western women dress -- except to the extent that so many Muslims express their opinions with violence, and that's a matter for the police.

 

[Smoke]

I find it amusing that people want him thrown out of the nation for not doing anything illegal, just something they don't like.

Death threats are illegal in the United States, and I have a feeling they're illegal in Canada, too.

 

[Sunstone]

Well, I agree to some extent, but not all the social expectations can be fulfilled by a Muslim...for example, if kisses between a man and a woman were the standard greeting somewhere, the Muslim would have to violate such social expectation...
Of course I believe that Muslims living in a western country should try their best to coexist and be flexible but not at expense of his/her religion.

Good points.

 

[Smoke]

Do you have any idea how us Muslims feel when you support sexual deviance?

Yes, I have. It's one of the reasons I have such contempt for the kind of Islam you embrace.

 

[Gharib]

I always find it interesting when Muslims say things like this, as if they honestly can't see women as anything but chattel.

so why do non muslims see muslim women as such?

Muslims have "their" women and Westerners have "their" women, and if Western women don't dress like the most conservative Muslim women, it's because Westerners have bared "their" women.

so true.

It's a line of argument that doesn't even acknowledge women as Muslims, Westerners, or even as fully human beings. It's disturbing enough when Muslim men take these attitudes; when Muslim women embrace them, it's mind-boggling.

well what is it when western women embrace it?

Western women dress themselves. A Western woman who sought her husband's permission to dress as she pleased would be considered a pathetic doormat.

muslim women dress themself too. i don't dress them, no one does.

I can't imagine any reason for anybody in his right mind to give a damn what Muslims think about how Western women dress

so why do you then?

except to the extent that so many Muslims express their opinions with violence, and that's a matter for the police.

oh yes, now you are being truthfull.

you might want to have a read of the thread again and see who is making statements with hatred associated with them.

 

[blackout]

I, for one, am not ANYBODY's "woman".

I AM my Own Personal and Autonomous Self.
I am MY OWN Woman, thank you.
My own person.
And I dress as I please.
As it pleases ME.

Just a every/any woman should.

Yes... even women who chose for their own independent and personal reasons
to wear the burqa, or some other total covering of Self.

The idea that someone "dresses me", (or "bares me"), is completely absurd.

 

[Gharib]

I, for one, am not ANYBODY's "woman".

I AM my Own Personal and Autonomous Self.
I am MY OWN Woman, thank you.
My own person.
And I dress as I please.
As it pleases ME.

Just a every/any woman should.

Yes... even women who chose for their own independent and personal reasons
to wear the burqa, or some other total covering of Self.

The idea that someone "dresses me", is completely absurd.

you might want to wright this in capital letters, i don't know if some members will see it.

 

[blackout]

Do you have any idea how us Muslims feel when Westerners bare their women?

Oh yes.... and only a VERY select people have permission to "bare" me.:flirt:
And still... I am not "theirs".

 

[blackout]

you might want to wright this in capital letters, i don't know if some members will see it.

*UV does not understand intent, meaning, or implication of this post*

and so declines to comment.

 

[jamaesi]

Death threats are illegal in the United States, and I have a feeling they're illegal in Canada, too.

Maybe I missed it in this thread, but the reasons I saw for wanting him out of the country were not for specifically for death threats but for being "unCanadian".

 

[Gharib]

*UV does not understand intent, meaning, or implication of this post*

and so declines to comment.

my intention was that non muslims should see your post clearly, cos muslim women do not belong to no one either. thats what sparked the whole thing, you might want to teach them something about women.

 

[Vile Atheist]

Maybe I missed it in this thread, but the reasons I saw for wanting him out of the country were not for specifically for death threats but for being "unCanadian".

I find it amusing that people want him thrown out of the nation for not doing anything illegal, just something they don't like. Could you imagine all the people who would have been thrown out of America during the Bush years if being "un-American" was grounds for deportation?

We don't know exactly what happened that angered the husband, it could be something that was conveniently left out. The author is also a clueless git with an obvious bias talking out of his *** because no, Don't You Dare Speak to My Wife 101 isn't a required course for a "Muslim upbringing."

Ridonculous. I don't have enough popcorn for this thread.

If you are referring to me, I've never said he should get out. I said he doesn't belong here if something so little and common like this is going to offend him so deeply.

It has nothing to do with being "unCanadian" because there is no distinct Canadian culture, but a mix of many different ones.

Edit: And I did mention the death threats.

 

[Vile Atheist]

my intention was that non muslims should see your post clearly, cos muslim women do not belong to no one either. thats what sparked the whole thing, you might want to teach them something about women.

Women have a right to wear whatever they choose. If that includes going almost nude, so be it (so long as it is in keeping with public law). If that includes wearing a hijab or burka, so be it (so long as it is in keeping with public law).

But the keyword is CHOOSE. If the burka is being forced on a woman - and in a lot of cases it is - then there is no choice.

I personally oppose the burka and hijab, but that's just my opinion and nothing more.