Death penalty: Are you for or against it?

[psychoslice]

Um, no. I save my compassion for those who deserve it. I actually support the death penalty because I have a high amount of empathy. I can feel the pain and suffering of others.

And you don't feel the pain of those who do these bad things, you don't try to understand what made them do what they did, their up bringing could have been toxic, which would affect their conditioning and how they see the world, wouldn't you like to try to help people like this instead of just killing them, you and I could have also been born with their disposition.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If I committed a crime worthy of death, I would be a man and accept it. I would make my amends with God before the sentence is carried out and try to meet God with a repentant heart. We're all going to die someday, anyway. Like Tracy Chapman said in a song - all you have is your soul. The body decays or gets burnt up to ashes, so that's not what's important.

Thats depressing. No crime is worth death. If anything, if I believed in a god, Id want to make amends by changing my behavior. Id go to confession. Many prisoners have became christians because Catholic lay missionaries spread the Word to others who needed to hear it.

The government may dictate who should die; and, morally, that is not for us to decide-no gov. No person. We die naturally by the will of the Law or karma. Not the choice of another who has not present any immediate danger to you or to someone else (say if someone attacked you or by war).

I side with life. I never heard a Catholic (ones I know personally here in my parish) say they disagree to abortion but agree to death penalty. Age and actions should not dictate who lives and who dies "at the hands of someone who 'chose' to kill that person"

Thats just, well, sad.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

And you don't feel the pain of those who do these bad things, you don't try to understand what made them do what they did, their up bringing could have been toxic, which would affect their conditioning and how they see the world, wouldn't you like to try to help people like this instead of just killing them, you and I could have also been born with their disposition.

Listen, I have a hobby of personally studying forensics, psychology, psychiatry, true crime, etc. I'm a true crime buff. I've read research papers, books, seen videos and pictures of murders and crime scenes, etc. I actually plan to pursue a career in forensic psychiatry and/or criminology once I get things together and work on my education. So don't patronize to me and make assumptions about what I know or don't know about this subject. I know tons about mental illness, personality disorders and the effects of abuse. More than most people do.

It's from this studying that I've reached the conclusion that some people are just demons and you can't help them. That's just reality. All the wishful thinking and misplaced "compassion" in the world isn't going to change that. Deal with it!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What happens if the murderer was pregnant? Do they abort the baby in addition to killing the mother? Have the baby prematurely? Pospone the excution untul 9 months later so her child can be told years later her mother was killed on purpose? Should the child be happy?

I am like that child. I would not be happy no matter what my mother did. She is my mother. Likewise with every other person. We are all one in the Law. Everyone is connected. We are affected by other peoples actions and decisions. Killing hurts us as a community.

What would you do if you where the child?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Thats depressing. No crime is worth death. If anything, if I believed in a god, Id want to make amends by changing my behavior. Id go to confession. Many prisoners have became christians because Catholic lay missionaries spread the Word to others who needed to hear it.

The government may dictate who should die; and, morally, that is not for us to decide-no gov. No person. We die naturally by the will of the Law or karma. Not the choice of another who has not present any immediate danger to you or to someone else (say if someone attacked you or by war).

I side with life. I never heard a Catholic (ones I know personally here in my parish) say they disagree to abortion but agree to death penalty. Age and actions should not dictate who lives and who dies "at the hands of someone who 'chose' to kill that person"

Thats just, well, sad.

Well, that's nice but that's not reality, which I live in. I don't believe in karma, anyway. And you must not know many Catholics because there's many of us that are more conservative on this issue. There's a huge difference in killing a baby in the womb and putting a convicted serial killer (for example) to death. I side with innocent life.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Well, that's nice but that's not reality, which I live in. I don't believe in karma, anyway. And you must not know many Catholics because there's many of us that are more conservative on this issue. There's a huge difference in killing a baby in the womb and putting a convicted serial killer (for example) to death. I side with innocent life.

There isnt a different. Age and action should not dictate the right to live.

With karma, think of it as "Its on God's timing only". Why play God.

 

[columbus]

Punishment. Crime and punishment.

And remind me just why vengeance is wrong in a case like this? Let the person go on his way with lollipops and ice cream?

The general term for this fallacy is "the excluded middle".
I don't have any problem with longer and harsher prison sentences than are sometimes the case now. I see the primary function of prison as protecting us non violent types from the violent. Attempting rehabilitation is also a good thing, but I don't put a lot of stock in it. Making education and counseling available to inmates is all well and good. But I am inclined to "minimum sentences". "You will do twenty years, and you won't get out then if you have not improved yourself enough".

Tom

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why hypocritical?

"Take a life, forfeit yours."
... so then you take a life in turn (or have some civil servant do it on your behalf), but don't forfeit your own life? It's hypocritical.

Don't get me wrong: the death penalty would still be unethical even if it was supported with a consistent justification... but you don't even have that much.

 

[psychoslice]

Listen, I have a hobby of personally studying forensics, psychology, psychiatry, true crime, etc. I'm a true crime buff. I've read research papers, books, seen videos and pictures of murders and crime scenes, etc. I actually plan to pursue a career in forensic psychiatry and/or criminology once I get things together and work on my education. So don't patronize to me and make assumptions about what I know or don't know about this subject. I know tons about mental illness, personality disorders and the effects of abuse. More than most people do.

It's from this studying that I've reached the conclusion that some people are just demons and you can't help them. That's just reality. All the wishful thinking and misplaced "compassion" in the world isn't going to change that. Deal with it!

I like all those things to, and I have seen a lot of photos of horrible crime scenes, but knowing all this doesn't change anything about killing people for their mistakes, it really should show us the tragedy of what makes people do these horrible crimes, and being interested in psychology should make one even more interested in what makes these people do what they do, not just wanting to kill them. Hey, don't get upset, I like you and we are only sharing our opinions.

 

[columbus]

You're sitting on a park bench at lunchtime in the sunshine, minding your own business, and some random stranger puts a gun to your head and pulls the trigger because he had his reasons. That's OK?

Whoever suggested that was OK?
I'm the one arguing against people killing each other here. You are the one trying to justify it.
Tom

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

And remind me just why vengeance is wrong in a case like this? Let the person go on his way with lollipops and ice cream?

Why should I consider your desire for vengeance to be a priority for a government I support?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

There isnt a different. Age and action should not dictate the right to live.

With karma, think of it as "Its on God's timing only". Why play God.

If you can't see the difference between a baby in the womb and a guy who

Spoiler: Warning for graphic description of a brutal murder involving children

axes his pregnant wife and two young daughters to death, then cuts the unborn fetus out of his wife's body and disembowels his daughters and sexually abuses their entrails

, then I really, really can't help you. (That really happened, too. The guy's name was Stefan Svitek. He was the last person executed in Czechoslovakia. I've also seen the crime scene pictures and they were among the most horrific and disturbing I've ever seen. And I've seen a lot.)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

More death doesn't really prevent, solve, or fix another death, but it does spread the grief.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I like all those things to, and I have seen a lot of photos of horrible crime scenes, but knowing all this doesn't change anything about killing people for their mistakes, it really should show us the tragedy of what makes people do these horrible crimes, and being interested in psychology should make one even more interested in what makes these people do what they do, not just wanting to kill them. Hey, don't get upset, I like you and we are only sharing our opinions.

There's different types of murder. Some have more social causes and others, such as the most brutal types of murder and serial murder, are because the person has a type of Anti-Social Personality Disorder as well as being a pathological sadist (in other words, they're what we'd call a murderous psychopath). In the latter case, there really isn't a social cause to it and the person is just literally screwed in the head and you can't really rehabilitate them.

For example, a teenager who is drawn into a street gang and does a drive-by can be rehabilitated if they cooperate with it. But a serial killer, a sexual sadist who gets off on torture or a serial rapist? No, you can't really rehabilitate those types.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

O

If you can't see the difference between a baby in the womb and a guy who

Spoiler: Warning for graphic description of a brutal murder involving children

axes his pregnant wife and two young daughters to death, then cuts the unborn fetus out of his wife's body and disembowels his daughters and sexually abuses their entrails

, then I really, really can't help you. (That really happened, too. The guy's name was Stefan Svitek. He was the last person executed in Czechoslovakia. I've also seen the crime scene pictures and they were among the most horrific and disturbing I've ever seen. And I've seen a lot.)

The age (infant or adult) and action (innocent or guilty) does not matter. They are Both human beings. They Both have the right to live. To me, seeing someone ellectrocuted and someone aborted gives me the same horrible feeling in my chest: the taking of a life.

If I killed, I have the right to make amends. I have the right to be one with God (in this scenario). I have the right to suffer the consequences of "My" actions not anyone elses.

Murder is wrong.

EDIT

why play God?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The age (infant or adult) and action (innocent or guilty) does not matter. They are Both human beings. They Both have the right to live. To me, seeing someone ellectrocuted and someone aborted gives me the same horrible feeling in my chest: the taking of a life.

If I killed, I have the right to make amends. I have the right to be one with God (in this scenario). I have the right to suffer the consequences of "My" actions not anyone elses.

Murder is wrong.

Who is supporting giving the electric chair to anyone? I don't support that. I support the firing squad or a simple bullet to the base of the skull as methods of execution only.

Of course, I just disagree with the rest of your post, except for murder being wrong (duh).

 

[Jumi]

What about those ISIS fighters who've enjoyed their share of killing innocents? Do you think after all they've done they should be left alone to "make amends"? I guess I'm not a good enough person to think they should live after burning people alive and throwing blindfolded people of a roof while laughing and smiling at the whole thing. There's a limit there somewhere.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What about those ISIS fighters who've enjoyed their share of killing innocents? Do you think after all they've done they should be left alone to "make amends"? I guess I'm not a good enough person to think they should live after burning people alive and throwing blindfolded people of a roof while laughing and smiling at the whole thing. There's a limit there somewhere.

Yeah, or what the Mexican drug cartels do to people, which is even worse if you can imagine that.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Who is supporting giving the electric chair to anyone? I don't support that. I support the firing squad or a simple bullet to the base of the skull as methods of execution only.

Of course, I just disagree with the rest of your post, except for murder being wrong (duh).

The death penalty is murder. The government premeditated on the intent to kill someone else. How can you be for the death penalty and against abortion? Both are lives. The first the gov takes the life. The latter, its the doctor. Regardless of how they are killed, the former firing squad or chair, the latter suction or whatever tool they use to tear up the fetis, they are both murdered.

I see a contradiction in your post and belief. One, the baby and adult are murdered. Yet, you disagree with murder, disagree with the former and agree with the later.

The second is your faith. The Church, CCC, and Bible never says take matters into your own hands (hence that God does everything...the killing, the rules to dont kill, etc) Its all by His command. The Church has ministries to Prevent crimes happening not ministries to kill the people who commited the crimes. The CCC talks about the santity of life. In Mass IS about Life.

So, I dont understand how you see the death penalty as good.

Thats confusing in itself.

 

[Jainarayan]

Why should I consider your desire for vengeance to be a priority for a government I support?

I support the same government and live in the same country. Call it vengeance, call it retribution, call it punishment, call it strawberry sorbet for all I care if the word vengeance is distasteful, but the fact remains that people cannot go about shooting and killing other people and expect to get off with just a prison term.