Debate a Muslim

[firedragon]

So? What's your point? The Koran says that when you find unbelievers, you have to fight them until they convert or you kill them.

that's a lie.

 

[Tiberius]

It's not damage control, it's how language works. Have you read the context of 2:191? In the same chapter, it says to fight those who fight you and not to transgress.

The trouble is that anyone who has a different faith is fighting, right? That's why the Koran says to kill unbelievers.

 

[firedragon]

If you met me in the street, would you kill me?

I think with your kind of history, you will probably do it to me.

 

[Tiberius]

People go to the internet, do a quick google search, the cut and paste from a famous website.

Lets see if these people wish to engage in any kind of decent discussion, and lets see if they even engage with language.

Decent discussion apparently means, "Here, let me show you how this book has to be interpreted so you can conclude that these passages don't say what they say."

 

[firedragon]

The trouble is that anyone who has a different faith is fighting, right? That's why the Koran says to kill unbelievers.

Its your religion that has been killing people for having a different faith for some time. They killed millions of people. Thats why you are trying to put out a red herring and demonise another set of people so that the world forgets.

 

[Tiberius]

Tiberius don't be silly. You want to find faults in Islam, then do so. But this is not one of them.

Yeah, it's not problematic at all when a holy book says to kill unbelievers.

 

[firedragon]

Decent discussion apparently means, "Here, let me show you how this book has to be interpreted so you can conclude that these passages don't say what they say."

Nope. Decent discussion is when people listen.

 

[Link]

Here I will quote some of the verses you quoted:

And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits. 190And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers. 191But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 192And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors. 1

 

[firedragon]

Yeah, it's not problematic at all when a holy book says to kill unbelievers.

When people lie, its very problematic. But kids do that sometimes.

 

[Tiberius]

General statement. Childish people who have never read do this kind of pretence to spread their own religion. Thats what you are doing. I will respond the same way you have done. I think you are trying to malign another religion with any kind of cut and pastes because your own religion has the worse history anyone can think of. Murderous history. So this is a diversion tactic of yours.

It that a good enough response similar to yours?

My own religion? That's a laugh. I don't have a religion.

 

[Link]

You see how the cut and paste, took parts of the verses away, and took it out of context?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I'm on the side of the Muslims here. As context is important. When you don't understand the context, crazy things can happen, like some of the things that happen among some, not all, outsiders to my Hindu faith in regards to some of their beliefs.

 

[Tiberius]

that's a lie.

2:191 and 2:193.

Kill unbelievers wherever you find them says the first passage. The second passage says to fight them until they are dead or they convert.

Where's the lie?

 

[Tiberius]

I think with your kind of history, you will probably do it to me.

My history? What do you know of my history?

 

[Link]

190-193, this is why I was telling you to check the context. I just quoted them all together, don't you think that's more of fair then quoting a part and ignore part of a verse, snip here, snip there, and then make it look bad?

 

[Tiberius]

Its your religion that has been killing people for having a different faith for some time. They killed millions of people. Thats why you are trying to put out a red herring and demonise another set of people so that the world forgets.

Citation required.

 

[Tiberius]

Nope. Decent discussion is when people listen.

Decent discussion is when people don't try to justify the killing of others for having a different faith.

 

[Link]

Decent discussion is when people don't try to justify the killing of others for having a different faith.

The same chapter you quoted those verses says "There is no forcing in religion..."

 

[Tiberius]

Here I will quote some of the verses you quoted:

And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits. 190And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers. 191But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 192And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors. 1

So kill the unbelievers, because them treating you badly is worse than you killing them.

 

[Tiberius]

When people lie, its very problematic. But kids do that sometimes.

Ah, so the claim that the Koran says to kill unbelievers, that's a lie? Are you saying that the Koran never says to kill unbelievers?