Debate a Muslim

[Link]

I know him from another forum, and I never expected this from him. I always held him to higher standards.

 

[firedragon]

This explained nothing, just sounds like pathetic excuses.

You just made a pathetic excuse because you dont read.

 

[firedragon]

I did. You seem to think there's some justification for killing unbelievers in there. Or something in there that means the bit that says "kill the unbelievers" doesn't mean "kill the unbelievers."

2:191 Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

2:193 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. (Fight the unbelievers until they either convert or are dead.)

Read the second verse verse you cut and pasted.

• Why did you intentionally commit the verse in the middle?
• And why did you insert a bogus statement within brackets that doesn't exist?

2:192 And if they cease, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.

 

[Link]

It doesn't even say disbelievers, it says "them" and who "they" are is clarified to be "those who fight you" by the verse before.

 

[Link]

So not just snip here and paste there, even a mistranslation and changing of a word.

 

[Tiberius]

You haven't and are frankly embarrassing yourself.

I'm sorry the fact that I have a life outside this site is inconvenient to you.

If you want, please feel free to pay me what my work pays me and I'll take some time off and read the book. If you aren't willing to do that, then you need to understand that I have more important things that reading books that justify bloodthirsty religions.

 

[Tiberius]

2:191 Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

2:193 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. (Fight the unbelievers until they either convert or are dead.)

Read the second verse verse you cut and pasted.

• Why did you intentionally commit the verse in the middle?
• And why did you insert a bogus statement within brackets that doesn't exist?

2:192 And if they cease, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.

You seem to be missing that according to 2:191, the Muslims are the ones who started the fight.

Also, it doesn't say not to kill them if they cease fighting. It just says God will be merciful. So if they stop fighting, kill them anyway, and when they are dead, God will be merciful.

 

[Tiberius]

It doesn't even say disbelievers, it says "them" and who "they" are is clarified to be "those who fight you" by the verse before.

Then why does it mention disbelievers at all if it is actually talking about people who fight you?

 

[firedragon]

You seem to be missing that according to 2:191, the Muslims are the ones who started the fight.

Mindnubingly strange you missed the immediate verse before that. See, cut and paste artists do this. A lot. You just showed it.

2:190 And fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not be the aggressor. God does not love there aggressors.

 

[Link]

Then why does it mention disbelievers at all if it is actually talking about people who fight you?

You tell me it’s your copy paste the original Arabic has it as “them” while the word “disbelievers” in the verse you quoted is not found. In other words it’s part of the deception of those who snip and paste from the site you relied on.

 

[Link]

I'm sorry the fact that I have a life outside this site is inconvenient to you.

If you want, please feel free to pay me what my work pays me and I'll take some time off and read the book. If you aren't willing to do that, then you need to understand that I have more important things that reading books that justify bloodthirsty religions.

You should not waste time claiming things you haven’t researched then. You don’t know enough about this to comment on it. So why are you wasting time debating something you’re not interested in researching?

 

[firedragon]

Then why does it mention disbelievers at all if it is actually talking about people who fight you?

They are Kuffar. Kuf meaning hiding something. Deceptive. Knowingly.

Even if its a person who calls himself Muslim they can be Kuffar. Strange people dont understand that you have to fight those who fight you, even if they are alien.

 

[firedragon]

So if they stop fighting, kill them anyway,

Lol. Where does it say "if they stop fighting, kill them anyway"? You just made that up didn't you?

 

[Tiberius]

Mindnubingly strange you missed the immediate verse before that. See, cut and paste artists do this. A lot. You just showed it.

2:190 And fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not be the aggressor. God does not love there aggressors.

Oh look, another holy text that contradicts itself! Behold the inerrant word of God!

Strange how you accuse me of cherry picking, and yet you do the same when you pick these verses over the ones that literally say, "Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them."

Also, as I've said, it seems that the Koran takes the position that holding a religious belief other than Islam is to fight against Islam.

 

[Link]

Oh look, another holy text that contradicts itself! Behold the inerrant word of God!

Strange how you accuse me of cherry picking, and yet you do the same when you pick these verses over the ones that literally say, "Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them."

It says “them” as for “unbelievers” it’s a deliberate change of the word “them” to that to deceive you.

 

[Link]

Because it left as them you might look up the context which is “those who fight you”.

 

[Tiberius]

You tell me it’s your copy paste the original Arabic has it as “them” while the word “disbelievers” in the verse you quoted is not found. In other words it’s part of the deception of those who snip and paste from the site you relied on.

Alright then, I won't count those. My list is now thus:

4:76 Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil.

4:91 Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.

4:101 "The disbelievers are an open enemy to you."

8:39 "Fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah."

9:5 "Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush."

9:29 "Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah."

9:73 "Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end."

9:123 "Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you."

60:13 "Be not friendly with a folk with whom Allah is wroth, (a folk) who have despaired of the Hereafter."

66:9 "Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."

 

[firedragon]

Oh look, another holy text that contradicts itself! Behold the inerrant word of God!

Strange how you accuse me of cherry picking, and yet you do the same when you pick these verses over the ones that literally say, "Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them."

Also, as I've said, it seems that the Koran takes the position that holding a religious belief other than Islam is to fight against Islam.

Lol. Is not contradiction. Its simple context. And you just made something else up

 

[firedragon]

Alright then, I won't count those. My list is now thus:

4:76 Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil.

4:91 Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.

4:101 "The disbelievers are an open enemy to you."

8:39 "Fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah."

9:5 "Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush."

9:29 "Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah."

9:73 "Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end."

9:123 "Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you."

60:13 "Be not friendly with a folk with whom Allah is wroth, (a folk) who have despaired of the Hereafter."

66:9 "Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."

Wow. Another cut and paste of cherry picked verses. See, some of them are the same.

Grown ups dont do this you see.

 

[firedragon]

Strange how you accuse me of cherry picking, and yet you do the same when you pick these verses over the ones that literally say, "Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them."

Mate. Its the verse immediately before the one you cut and pasted.