• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Did Jesus really have to die for our sins?

waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
sojourner said:
Unless we think we're something that we're not -- like a fish, for example, or a superior race.
Click to expand...

i agree with that being that we are not capable of defining something that isn't definable.

how can one have a wrong perspective of something that isn't definable?
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
waitasec said:
i agree with that being that we are not capable of defining something that isn't definable.

how can one have a wrong perspective of something that isn't definable?
Click to expand...
Attempting to define the indefinable represents a wrong perspective, because it places the definer in a position above the indefinable.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
sojourner said:
Attempting to define the indefinable represents a wrong perspective, because it places the definer in a position above the indefinable.
Click to expand...

exactly. so what is the point of defining god?

i don't think it's a wrong perspective though, it is a truth. it is very telling of where we are and who we are. many times it's proven ourselves to be arrogant.
 
Last edited:
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
lets put this to bed shall we...
jesus received a command from god as he calls himself the good shepherd...to lay down his life and the reason why god loves him is because he is willing to do so. so why would he need to die in the 1st place? why would the reason god loves jesus be contingent on jesus laying down his life for the sheep? hasn't god changed his mind about other things? why this sacrifice? jesus is the one being scapegoated for the every sin that has ever been committed and every sin that will be committed...but then we have to ask ourselves, what makes sin the reason for a scapegoat. scapegoats where a way of life when this ideology was beginning to take form. but what is sin? mistakes, being mistreated by the romans or by those who do not believe as you...
we all know that treating each other with mutual respect is the goal, the carrot that keeps us moving forward...but how in the world can this work if this ideology has woven the contradicting idea that there are wolves in sheep's clothing. no one is perfect. all of us fail and make mistakes.
however jesus doesn't recognize this, he recognizes those that do not accept his theology...the wolves. jesus was not an all encompassing lover of the sheep, because his understanding of the sheep was not complete. sheep stray and get lost not because of wolves but because of their limited understanding.

jesus should know better if jesus is god.

7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12 The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13 The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father —and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life —only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”
 
Last edited:
H

helpmeplease

Member
An explanation of the bible story....abridged.
God: all right you lot that stupid woman went and ate my apple and the idiot took a bite as well. Well I'm here to tell you it's gonna cost. I had planned to let you live for ever, but now I'm gonna kill you's all. But lucky for you I've already got a plan B. I'm gonna let little Jesus come down there and get butchered and then I'll forgive you's all. Well not all, I still need to destroy some of you's. Sounds like a plan?
 
jasonwill2

jasonwill2

Well-Known Member
helpmeplease said:
An explanation of the bible story....abridged.
God: all right you lot that stupid woman went and ate my apple and the idiot took a bite as well. Well I'm here to tell you it's gonna cost. I had planned to let you live for ever, but now I'm gonna kill you's all. But lucky for you I've already got a plan B. I'm gonna let little Jesus come down there and get butchered and then I'll forgive you's all. Well not all, I still need to destroy some of you's. Sounds like a plan?
Click to expand...

That reminds me of this pic:

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/i...pX1zs09vxdl-3ro1_BYBkWUXAaJ3XYTU798CQcp4gbqvA

Of which I made a topic about:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/128997-satan-smarter-than-yahweh.html

Actually when I googled for that pic I forgot to hit images, and that topic is the third top result!
 
1robin

1robin

Christian/Baptist
helpmeplease said:
An explanation of the bible story....abridged.
God: all right you lot that stupid woman went and ate my apple and the idiot took a bite as well. Well I'm here to tell you it's gonna cost. I had planned to let you live for ever, but now I'm gonna kill you's all. But lucky for you I've already got a plan B. I'm gonna let little Jesus come down there and get butchered and then I'll forgive you's all. Well not all, I still need to destroy some of you's. Sounds like a plan?
Click to expand...
In your warped abridgement context, meaning, explanation, and justification is not included. If you think Christianity is wrong then why not show how the actual religion is wrong, instead of creating a caricature of it. That suggests the lack of a valid intellectual position.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
1robin said:
In your warped abridgement context, meaning, explanation, and justification is not included. If you think Christianity is wrong then why not show how the actual religion is wrong, instead of creating a caricature of it. That suggests the lack of a valid intellectual position.
Click to expand...

by what criteria do you label his abridgement as warped...?
you're not comparing your unsupportable claims as the standard are you?
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
waitasec said:
by what criteria do you label his abridgement as warped...?
you're not comparing your unsupportable claims as the standard are you?
Click to expand...

And are you still using a lack of faith as your standard?

To all participants....the litmus test of this discussion is what?
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
waitasec said:
correction
lack of religious faith...
having faith in faith is well sort of redundant, don't you think?
Click to expand...

Still playing word games....running around the burning bush...

So Jesus didn't die for your sins?
That means your discussion is terminal....right?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top