Did Jesus really have to die for our sins?

[Thief]

why because he's alive in you?

Do you think He died for no cause at all?

 

[waitasec]

Do you think He died for no cause at all?

wait you just said
you don't think he died for anyone

 

[Thief]

wait you just said
you don't think he died for anyone

I was asking you....take a stand.

 

[jasonwill2]

In your warped abridgement context, meaning, explanation, and justification is not included. If you think Christianity is wrong then why not show how the actual religion is wrong, instead of creating a caricature of it. That suggests the lack of a valid intellectual position.

It really wasn't that much of a caricature when you think about it, it was pretty spot on other than the wording.

It's called a different perspective. If one reads the Bible it seems more like the character of Yahweh is a case of the unreliable narrator... a masterful device when used correctly. Obviously transparent when not used right.

 

[waitasec]

Do you think He died for no cause at all?

yep...

 

[Thief]

yep...

Finally.

 

[1robin]

by what criteria do you label his abridgement as warped...?
you're not comparing your unsupportable claims as the standard are you?

As I said in the other thread you are you are back on my dismiss list.

 

[waitasec]

Finally.

and you didn't already know that?

 

[1robin]

It really wasn't that much of a caricature when you think about it, it was pretty spot on other than the wording.

It's called a different perspective. If one reads the Bible it seems more like the character of Yahweh is a case of the unreliable narrator... a masterful device when used correctly. Obviously transparent when not used right.

It's called a dishonest representation of the greatest concept in human history that has a greater impact on humanity than any other. It was a pretty pathetic attempt at biased cartoon strawman construction. If you actually have any legitamate counter arguments to Christianity, it wouldn't require you to invent a false one completely devoid of all meaningful context to dumb down an ideology to a level where your argumentation has some applicability. Lets see what someone with the ability to make an actual mature and relevant point says:

"[The character of Jesus] has not only been the highest pattern of virtue, but the strongest incentive to its practice, and has exerted so deep an influence, that it may be truly said, that the simple record of three short years of active life has done more to regenerate and to soften mankind, than all the disquisitions of philosophers and than all the exhortations of moralists."
William lecky One of Britain’s greatest secular historians.

He was the meekest and lowliest of all the sons of men, yet he spoke of coming on the clouds of heaven with the glory of God. He was so austere that evil spirits and demons cried out in terror at his coming, yet he was so genial and winsome and approachable that the children loved to play with him, and the little ones nestled in his arms. His presence at the innocent gaiety of a village wedding was like the presence of sunshine.
No one was half so compassionate to sinners, yet no one ever spoke such red hot scorching words about sin. A bruised reed he would not break, his whole life was love, yet on one occasion he demanded of the Pharisees how they ever expected to escape the damnation of hell. He was a dreamer of dreams and a seer of visions, yet for sheer stark realism He has all of our stark realists soundly beaten. He was a servant of all, washing the disciples feet, yet masterfully He strode into the temple, and the hucksters and moneychangers fell over one another to get away from the mad rush and the fire they saw blazing in His eyes.
He saved others, yet at the last Himself He did not save. There is nothing in history like the union of contrasts which confronts us in the gospels. The mystery of Jesus is the mystery of divine personality.
World renowned Scottish theologan James Stewart

Now that's how you make a meaningful point.

 

[waitasec]

As I said in the other thread you are you are back on my dismiss list.

your dishonest tactics have placed you from the nill category to the sub nill category...and i'm here to call you on it.

congratz
here have another :cigar:

 

[1robin]

your dishonest tactics have placed you from the nill category to the sub nill category...and i'm here to call you on it.

congratz
here have another :cigar:

I am waiting for my apology.

 

[waitasec]

I am waiting for my apology.

so am i

 

[Thief]

so am i

You could aim your apologies to God.
That might do some good.

Not a sinner?...need not forgiveness?
Death washes away all sin?

And Jesus died for nothing?

 

[waitasec]

You could aim your apologies to God.

no thanks...

 

[Me Myself]

Human sacrifice solves nothing.

 

[1robin]

Human sacrifice solves nothing.

God almighty disagrees. Who backs up your claim.

 

[sojourner]

so what is the point of defining god?

I don't think we attempt to define God. We attempt to describe God.

i don't think it's a wrong perspective though, it is a truth. it is very telling of where we are and who we are. many times it's proven ourselves to be arrogant.

We're arguing semantics.

 

[sojourner]

Really? Maybe you can tell me what the "result" of Jesus' "sacrifice" was?

A dead insurrectionist leaps to mind.

 

[sojourner]

jesus received a command from god as he calls himself the good shepherd...to lay down his life

Did he?

and the reason why god loves him is because he is willing to do so.

Let's be a little more specific. God loves Jesus for his love for God's people.

so why would he need to die in the 1st place?

he didn't.

why would the reason god loves jesus be contingent on jesus laying down his life for the sheep?

It isn't contingent upon that.

jesus is the one being scapegoated for the every sin that has ever been committed and every sin that will be committed

Not necessarily.

however jesus doesn't recognize this, he recognizes those that do not accept his theology...the wolves. jesus was not an all encompassing lover of the sheep, because his understanding of the sheep was not complete. sheep stray and get lost not because of wolves but because of their limited understanding.

jesus should know better if jesus is god.

Straw man.

7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12 The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13 The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father —and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life —only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

So? None of this states explicitly that "Jesus has to die to atone for our sin."

 

[sojourner]

by what criteria do you label his abridgement as warped...?

It lacks sound theological development, based upon a proper exegetical treatment of the texts.