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Did Jesus say he was God???

ayani

member
People develop mind blocks. I do what I can to try to free up a person's thinking but some people seem trapped inside their own head.

i know.

and a Christian should never give up on defending the truth.

i remember, as an outside to the Christian faith, what puzzled and troubled me more than theological discussions, was the subtle, sweet, trusting *something* the Christians i knew had. it wasn't visible, but it was certainly noticeable.

it was the behavior and testimonies of Christians, as well as hearing their prayers, which made me curious. but i see what you're saying. discussing and debating with words is also something we're called to do. and only God knows the real results of our words, and our witness.
 

ayani

member
no.... i disagree.

i do take the Gospel accounts literally, and seriously.

no one else before of after was literally born of God's Holy Spirit. and no one knows the Father but the Son. no other Man was pre-existent, or rose from the dead after three days.

all of these things make Jesus unique in the Biblical narrative. He was clear that the Father is above Him, and the source of His power. yet He also says that He has a singular, personal, and unique relationship with the Creator, which He and He alone can give us.

Jesus is above all, a Someone. to argue that He is a symbol, metaphor, state, or simply an example of what we can become on our own, is to miss out on the meaning of the word "Savior". and "Lord". the heart of Christian faith is the understanding that we follow, live for, belong to, and will live because of a singular, certain Someone, who is alive, and personally knowable, now and forever.

it's not what one think of Him that matters. it's whether or not one knows Him personally.

We are all (of) GOD Material.

There is nothing xtra special about the persona of Jesus in this regard,
EVEN in that his own words said as much.
That we could be One with the father as he and the father were One.
And that we could do greater things than even he did.

Mainstream christianity strips the Jesus message of all it's Power.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
My delusion. LOL.

Scripture does show many that lived much longer than that.

Scripture also shows when God is the killer of men to the point of genocide. Satan has not done so.

Show why God brought Satan to the garden if not to make sure that Eve ate of the tree of knowledge that give man a moral sense. Why would man want to live forever and be as dumb as a cow.

Would you give up your moral sense for eternal and ignorant bliss?

Regards
DL

On the contrary, satan is responsible for everyone's death because he caused everyone to sin. Even when death is attributed to God it is because the people sinned. The only ones who didn't die: Enoch and Elijah were saved from it by God. Then there is Jesus who died for us so that we might live, revealing God's nature in doing so.

You are in error God did not bring Satan to the garden. Satan disguised himself as a serpent. However God knows what is going on and does not prevent it which means that His grace is in operation to provide a physical life for the spiritually dead or you wouldn't be here now.

This is again incorrect. Eve already had a moral sense. What she lacked was an immoral sense.

A lack of immorality is not a lack of intelligence. God is more intelligent than it is possible for any human to be and He is Holy. I don't see having a sense of immorality as having any value at all.
 

Greatest I am

Well-Known Member
no.... i disagree.

i do take the Gospel accounts literally, and seriously.

no one else before of after was literally born of God's Holy Spirit. and no one knows the Father but the Son. no other Man was pre-existent, or rose from the dead after three days.

all of these things make Jesus unique in the Biblical narrative. He was clear that the Father is above Him, and the source of His power. yet He also says that He has a singular, personal, and unique relationship with the Creator, which He and He alone can give us.

Jesus is above all, a Someone. to argue that He is a symbol, metaphor, state, or simply an example of what we can become on our own, is to miss out on the meaning of the word "Savior". and "Lord". the heart of Christian faith is the understanding that we follow, live for, belong to, and will live because of a singular, certain Someone, who is alive, and personally knowable, now and forever.

it's not what one think of Him that matters. it's whether or not one knows Him personally.

Knowing Jesus personally would be like knowing Hitler's son personally.
Who would be silly enough to trust Jesus? His daddy was a genocidal maniac for God's sake. Or was it Jesus himself who had the big bucket and drowned innocent children and babies.

And why in hell drown all those dumb animals. Now that is just plain mean.

Regards
DL
 

Greatest I am

Well-Known Member
On the contrary, satan is responsible for everyone's death because he caused everyone to sin.

There are too many hole in your B S for me to spend the time on all of them.

If what you say above is true and Satan causes us all to sin, then why does God punish us instead of Satan?
If he causes us to sin then we have no choice and are innocent puppets.

Please do not say we have free choice because my way or go to hell, the only choice God gives is not free choice at all but an ultimatum.

Regards
DL
 

dogsgod

Well-Known Member
.


Did Jesus say he was God???

The author says he is:
Mark 1:1 This is the beginning of the gospel of Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God.


.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
There are too many hole in your B S for me to spend the time on all of them.

If what you say above is true and Satan causes us all to sin, then why does God punish us instead of Satan?
If he causes us to sin then we have no choice and are innocent puppets.

Please do not say we have free choice because my way or go to hell, the only choice God gives is not free choice at all but an ultimatum.

Regards
DL

I will pretend that you seriously believe this and offer you a solution.Take one hole at a time. I find this works when people have a long line of BS.

It was nice of you to provide the answer of free will. Hitler caused people to kill Jews but they had a free will and could have refused.

An ultimatum is a choice. As Newton put it "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." Or as some people like to put it: "no good deed goes unpunished." People who opposed Hitler's genocide ended up in a concentration camp. I find this attitude towards free will that is should somehow change reality but it doesn't. So in that sense free will is not totally free. For instance if it is my will that I should jump off a building and not fall to the ground, I will fall to the ground despite the fact that I choose not to fall. And it is futile to complain because God does not remove this law of gravity so that we can freely choose.

This is another way that we see that Jesus is God in the flesh because His attitude towards sin is the same as the Father's.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
.


Did Jesus say he was God???

The author says he is:
Mark 1:1 This is the beginning of the gospel of Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God.


.

Yes but not directly. He identifies Himself with the name of God and with the reference that He uses for God, Father.
 

Greatest I am

Well-Known Member
I will pretend that you seriously believe this and offer you a solution.Take one hole at a time. I find this works when people have a long line of BS.

It was nice of you to provide the answer of free will. Hitler caused people to kill Jews but they had a free will and could have refused.

An ultimatum is a choice. As Newton put it "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." Or as some people like to put it: "no good deed goes unpunished." People who opposed Hitler's genocide ended up in a concentration camp. I find this attitude towards free will that is should somehow change reality but it doesn't. So in that sense free will is not totally free. For instance if it is my will that I should jump off a building and not fall to the ground, I will fall to the ground despite the fact that I choose not to fall. And it is futile to complain because God does not remove this law of gravity so that we can freely choose.

This is another way that we see that Jesus is God in the flesh because His attitude towards sin is the same as the Father's.

More B S.
To say that archetypal Jesus has the same standards as God is to insult man.

Thank God man is not as stupid as your God and knows the difference between an ultimatum and a true free choice.

Run and follow your turn or burn idiot.

Regards
DL
 

hey_amigo

Member
the truth about jesus is that "he's us"

just like josé is phonetically hosé
and...
like jalapeno is phonetically halapeno

do doubt.. jesus heals us. its personal improvement to have good faith.
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
the truth about jesus is that "he's us"

just like josé is phonetically hosé
and...
like jalapeno is phonetically halapeno

But... Jesus is name is Yehoshua, or Yeshua. :D
Yeshua could have been the diminutive version of his name, or he could have been given the diminutive form, like Rob or Robby instead of Robert, something his close friends and family would use? Could have been either, but I think Yeshua sounds nicer. :D
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony

First let me say...Welcome to the forum...

Ok..now that I got that out of the way....

Second...You're completely wrong. The biblical Yeshua never associates himself as being part of a trinity. In fact, through out the four gospels he continuously tries to teach his followers he wasn't God, wasn't on the same level or equal to his god....and NONE of his followers thought he was God.....
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
In fact, through out the four gospels he continuously tries to teach his followers he wasn't God, wasn't on the same level or equal to his god....and NONE of his followers thought he was God.....

:clap Yaay! :)
In fact, if you read through the NT, it's other people writing things about him that imply he's supposedly God, not anything he says, which is contrary to this. :D My brother uses the good old 'John 1' etc as "proof" for example that Jesus is God. :D
 
First let me say...Welcome to the forum...

Ok..now that I got that out of the way....

Second...You're completely wrong. The biblical Yeshua never associates himself as being part of a trinity. In fact, through out the four gospels he continuously tries to teach his followers he wasn't God, wasn't on the same level or equal to his god....and NONE of his followers thought he was God.....
HI GUYS,AGREED TOTALLY....JSUS WORSHIPED GOD,HE CANT BE GOD!..THE ONE WHO IS WORSHIP IS GOD OR THE ONE WHO WORSHIPED ?:no:
 

dgray

New Member


A compilation of passages is below that demonstrates a two-fold nature of the Messengers of God. Included are teachings from the Bab and Baha'u'llah.
Verses of the Bible Indicating Jesus is God


"For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily"


"He who has seen me has seen the Father" (John 14)


"I and the Father am one" (John 10)


"I am He" (John 8)


"I am in the Father and the Father in me" (John 14)


"He who sees me sees He Who sent Me" (John 12)


Verses of the Bible Indicating a Jesus is not God Incarnate

New Testament

"No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son Who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him" (John 1)


"I am going to the Father, for My Father is greater than I" (John 14)


"I can of Mine own self do nothing. Not my own will, but the will of the Father Which has sent me." (John 5)


"I do nothing of myself, but as My Father taught me, I speak these things" (John 8)


"But of that day and hour, no one knows, not even the angels of heaven nor the Son, but the Father only" (Matthew 24)


"And when he had sent them away, he departed into a mountain to pray" (Mark 6)


"My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken Me" (Mark 15)
Old Testament

"But will God indeed dwell on earth? Behold, heaven and the heavens of heaven cannot contain Him."
The Twofold Nature of the Manifestation

'The essence of belief in Divine unity consisteth in regarding Him Who is the Manifestation of God and Him Who is the invisible, the inaccessible, the unknowable Essence as one and the same.'


(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 166)


'Therefore, whosoever, and in whatever Dispensation, hath recognized and attained unto the presence of these glorious, these resplendent and most excellent Luminaries, hath verily attained unto the "Presence of God" Himself, and entered the city of eternal and immortal life.'


(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 142)


'Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: "Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise." He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person.'


(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 49)


'And since there can be no tie of direct intercourse to bind the one true God with His creation, and no resemblance whatever can exist between the transient and the Eternal, the contingent and the Absolute, He hath ordained that in every age and dispensation a pure and stainless Soul be made manifest in the kingdoms of earth and heaven. Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself. To this testifieth the tradition: "Manifold and mysterious is My relationship with God. I am He, Himself, and He is I, Myself, except that I am that I am, and He is that He is." And in like manner, the words: "Arise, O Muhammad, for lo, the Lover and the Beloved are joined together and made one in Thee." He similarly saith: "There is no distinction whatsoever between Thee and Them, except that They are Thy Servants." The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: "I am but a man like you." "Say, praise be to my Lord! Am I more than a man, an apostle?"'


(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 66)


"These Manifestations of God have each a twofold station. One is the station of pure abstraction and essential unity. In this respect, if thou callest them all by one name, and dost ascribe to them the same attributes, thou hast not erred from the truth. Even as He hath revealed: "No distinction do We make between any of His Messengers." For they, one and all, summon the people of the earth to acknowledge the unity of God, and herald unto them the Kawthar of an infinite grace and bounty. They are all invested with the robe of prophethood, and are honored with the mantle of glory. Thus hath Muhammad, the Point of the Qur'án, revealed: "I am all the Prophets." Likewise, He saith: "I am the first Adam, Noah, Moses, and Jesus"…


'The other station is the station of distinction, and pertaineth to the world of creation, and to the limitations thereof. In this respect, each Manifestation of God hath a distinct individuality, a definitely prescribed mission, a predestined revelation, and specially designated limitations. Each one of them is known by a different name, is characterized by a special attribute, fulfils a definite mission, and is entrusted with a particular Revelation. Even as He saith: "Some of the Apostles We have caused to excel the others. To some God hath spoken, some He hath raised and exalted. And to Jesus, Son of Mary, We gave manifest signs, and We strengthened Him with the Holy Spirit."'


(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 50-52)


'Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: "I am God", He, verily, speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto. For it hath been repeatedly demonstrated that through their Revelation, their attributes and names, the Revelation of God, His names and His attributes, are made manifest in the world…'


(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 233)
Writings from Baha'u'llah


'When I contemplate, O my God, the relationship that bindeth me to Thee, I am moved to proclaim to all created things "verily I am God"; and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!'


(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 234)


'Say: Naught is seen in My temple but the Temple of God, and in My beauty but His Beauty, and in My being but His Being, and in My self but His Self, and in My movement but His Movement, and in My acquiescence but His Acquiescence, and in My pen but His Pen, the Mighty, the All-Praised. There hath not been in My soul but the Truth, and in Myself naught could be seen but God.'


(Baha'u'llah, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 23)
Writings from The Bab


'Verily, verily, I am God, He besides Whom there is none other God and I am the Ancient of Days.'


(The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 58)


'Verily God and every created thing testify that there is none other God but Me, the Almighty, the Best Beloved…'


(The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 31)


'He who doeth good unto Me, it is as if he doeth good unto God…'


(The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 15)


'The recognition of Him Who is the Bearer of divine Truth is none other than recognition of God, and loving Him is none other than loving God.'


(The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 121)
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
A compilation of passages is below that demonstrates a two-fold nature of the Messengers of God. Included are teachings from the Bab and Baha'u'llah.
Verses of the Bible Indicating Jesus is God


"For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily"


"He who has seen me has seen the Father" (John 14)


"I and the Father am one" (John 10)


"I am He" (John 8)


"I am in the Father and the Father in me" (John 14)


"He who sees me sees He Who sent Me" (John 12)

There are NO verses in the NT indicating the biblical Yeshua is "God".....

At best the verses above show they are (one in purpose)...but not one in the same.
 

MarvelousWorksofGod

Everyone knows he's Real
This here is a very interesting topic, and is something that I been trying to find evidence of. Everything that was said by Jesus implies that he is God, but I don't think, (haven't found at least) that Jesus actually said he was God. But, according to the christian religion, he is the Son, Savior, and the Messiah, and he is given the same respect as you would the Father, Jehovah. Jehovah's witnesses believes that Jesus is NOT God but just a glimpse to see who God really is, or just a example of what a believer should be. In the book of Mathew it says that no one will know the the Son, or the Father, but only the Son will know the Father, and only the Father will know the Son, unless the Son desires to reveal the Father.
 
This here is a very interesting topic, and is something that I been trying to find evidence of. Everything that was said by Jesus implies that he is God, but I don't think, (haven't found at least) that Jesus actually said he was God. But, according to the christian religion, he is the Son, Savior, and the Messiah, and he is given the same respect as you would the Father, Jehovah. Jehovah's witnesses believes that Jesus is NOT God but just a glimpse to see who God really is, or just a example of what a believer should be. In the book of Mathew it says that no one will know the the Son, or the Father, but only the Son will know the Father, and only the Father will know the Son, unless the Son desires to reveal the Father.

u will nver find Jesus said "I AM GOD,WORSHIP ME"...EVERYTHING SAID BY JESUS IMPLIES HE'S GOD? I DONT THINK SO..WHY WOULD HE PRAY TO GOD THEN?:confused:
 

Greatest I am

Well-Known Member
This here is a very interesting topic, and is something that I been trying to find evidence of. Everything that was said by Jesus implies that he is God, but I don't think, (haven't found at least) that Jesus actually said he was God. But, according to the christian religion, he is the Son, Savior, and the Messiah, and he is given the same respect as you would the Father, Jehovah. Jehovah's witnesses believes that Jesus is NOT God but just a glimpse to see who God really is, or just a example of what a believer should be. In the book of Mathew it says that no one will know the the Son, or the Father, but only the Son will know the Father, and only the Father will know the Son, unless the Son desires to reveal the Father.

http://www.thenazareneway.com/vicarious_atonement.htm

What kind of foolish God would not just forgive man outright without the death of His own son.

Would you just forgive or would you have your child killed before forgiving someone?

Regards
DL
 
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