Did Jesus say obviously " I am a God" in Gospel?

[Comprehend]

What i meant is that in the Gospel of Luke it says
the angel of God strengthened Jesus, so lets assume
for a moment he reserected himself, BUT it was God
Almighty who Gave him the ability to do so, is this not
correct according to scripture.

Yes.

I know where you are going with this but you should know that Mormons have different beliefs about the nature of God than other Christians and your argument doesn't affect LDS doctrine.

 

[~Amin~]

Yes.

" GOD USES ATHEISTS TO FULLFILL HIS PURPOSE"
Did you know i experienced this?

 

[~Amin~]

Most commonly used verse to prove Jesus's divinity is
I and the Father are one.
If this interpretation is true then the diciples are also God,
because,

That they may all be ONE; as thou, Father, art
in me, and i in thee, that they also may be ONE
in us; that the world may believe that thou has
sent me.

And the Glory which thou gavest me i have
given them; that they may be ONE, even as we
are ONE: John 17,21,22.

 

[!Fluffy!]

Regarding Gal. 1:1 - it is taken grossly out of context and off topic insofar as the original premise of this thread is based upon Jesus Christ's own claims to divinity. However in that regard, read the whole letter to the Galatians (it's not long) and then decide whether or not Paul believes Jesus was Christ incarnate and the Son of God.

His treatise to the Galatians was NOT ABOUT HOW Christ was resurrected. Only when it is clearly understood in the context of "I and my Father are One" can you get the concept that even as it was the will of the Father, so it is the will of the Son - in the resurrection as in everything else. There is no separation. Christ is and was God incarnate, God in the flesh, fully human and fully God - according to His will. NOT half and half. His divinity was not reduced by his humanity. His humanity was not reduced by his divinity. The sovereign God, Creator of the universe, is fully capable of this and more (though the pompous little human mind would always like to put its own brand of stupid limitations on Him).

As for Paul, his entire ministry was about the FACT that Jesus Christ was born the Son of God, crucified, died on the cross, buried in a tomb, resurrected from the dead, then ascended to heaven -- all for our salvation. Any attempts to contradict that plain and simple truth about Paul's beliefs and intentions will prove woefully inadequate and mistaken.

As a matter of fact, the letter to the Galatians was about, ironically enough in regards to threads like this one - confronting false teachings and lies, and contains stern warnings against accepting the bondage of legalistic religions after Christ has set them free. It contains a brilliant essay about how God's grace through Christ has bestowed justification by faith rather than works.

Back to the topic:
"Matthew 11:27. 'All things have been handed over to Me by my Father: and no one knows the Son, except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father, except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.' In this verse, Jesus claimed to be the Son of God in an "exclusive and absolute sense," having a unique and personal relationship with the Father. It is helpful here to make a momentary digression into the Jewish conception of the father/son relationship, as expressed by Harvey [Harv.JesC, 159-161]. Being a son to a father required the following:

• Obedience. The son was expected to be totally obedient to the father in all matters. (See Prov. 4:4.) In identifying Himself as God's Son, Jesus indicated that He was obliged to be in perfect obedience to the divine will. But what human could accomplish this? It would be the claim of one who was either a massive egotist, insane -- or truly divine.
• Learning. A son was expected to learn the father's trade, his skills, and his experience. Jesus is therefore saying that he has taken up God's work and learned what He knows directly from God. Finally:
• Agency. A son was expected to act as the father's agent when called upon, and would be considered to have the father's legal authority in such situations. Jesus was therefore saying that He was appointed as God's direct agent.

This all implies divinity, inasmuch as the OT describes God as one who will not share His glory with another." - Did Jesus Claim to be God?

 

[!Fluffy!]

Most commonly used verse to prove Jesus's divinity is
I and the Father are one.
If this interpretation is true then the diciples are also God,
because,

That they may all be ONE; as thou, Father, art
in me, and i in thee, that they also may be ONE
in us; that the world may believe that thou has
sent me.

And the Glory which thou gavest me i have
given them; that they may be ONE, even as we
are ONE: John 17,21,22.

Read the New Testament. The apostles never claimed divinity. None of the apostles ever claimed to be the Son of God. None of the apostles' mothers were visited by an angel and told they would bear the Christ child, the Son of God. The apostles did not claim to die for the sins of men, were not crucified, dead, buried then resurrected. The apostles worshiped Jesus as Messiah, and he accepted their worship.

The relationship of Christ's followers is not the same exact relationship as Christ to the Father. This only becomes painfully obvious when the entire gospel is read with a modicum of intellectual integrity. The oneness of Christ's followers is what he is referring to, and a strictly literal interpretation you are trying to impose is nothing less than silly, on the same order as interpreting me saying I love my dog to mean that I want to marry him. Christ's followers are referred to as His body. Revelations also refers to the church (meaning: those who belong to Christ) as the bride of Christ. It is a simple matter of understanding these relationships that seems to represent such a challenge to Muslims.

and it's a problem of reading comprehension and stubborn evasion to try and make these cherry picked verses into a refutation of Christ's many claims to divinity.

 

[rocketman]

So how can mortal man be in the right before God,

Christians believe that Jesus was fully man and fully God at the same time. (Romans 9:5, Colossians 2:9-10, Titus 2:13 etc) Therefore the child mentioned in Isaiah 9:6 is an obvious fit.

As for what Bildad the Shuhite had to say, don't forget what God said to the three friends of Job at the end of the book: "I am angry with you and your two friends, becasue you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has." -Job 42:7 ..So I don't see that we can take any of Bildad's words as having any overiding authority - especially not compared to a prophet, let alone one as major as Isaiah.

Or how can one born of a woman be clean?

He was born holy from the start:

" The angel answered, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God...For nothing is impossible with god'" -Luke 1:35,36

*******************
I don't see how any of this poorly-researched cherry-picking is going to unseat the basics that have already been established in this thread.

 

[rocketman]

This all implies divinity, inasmuch as the OT describes God as one who will not share His glory with another." - Did Jesus Claim to be God?

Exactly. How many times did God say in the OT that he would not share his glory and his name with another? Many. That was really important to God. And yet Jesus either acted as if he had no respect for such things by continuosly invoking charges of blasphemy, or he really did mean that he was divine.

Great link by the way. I urge everyone to give it a look.

 

[Gabreil]

Most commonly used verse to prove Jesus's divinity is
I and the Father are one.
If this interpretation is true then the diciples are also God,
because,

That they may all be ONE; as thou, Father, art
in me, and i in thee, that they also may be ONE
in us; that the world may believe that thou has
sent me.

And the Glory which thou gavest me i have
given them; that they may be ONE, even as we
are ONE: John 17,21,22.

i agree with you brother ~Amin~

 

[!Fluffy!]

i agree with you brother ~Amin~

Thank you for proving my point, we are two for two now :yes: - of course with absolutely no coherent rebuttals.

 

[~Amin~]

Read the New Testament None of the apostles ever claimed to be the Son of God.
.

Mathew 5,9,43,45,48.
Romans 8,14
these verses show clearly that any Pious person
is the son of God not literaly.

The apostles never claimed divinity.

Neither did jesus
I am ascending to My Father and your Father
To My God and your God. John 20,17.
Jesus had a God he wasnt God.

 

[blackout]

Most commonly used verse to prove Jesus's divinity is
I and the Father are one.
If this interpretation is true then the diciples are also God,
because,

That they may all be ONE; as thou, Father, art
in me, and i in thee, that they also may be ONE
in us; that the world may believe that thou has
sent me.

And the Glory which thou gavest me i have
given them; that they may be ONE, even as we
are ONE: John 17,21,22.

You can count me in as number three,
except to remember that this oneness has to be embraced in totality.
Simply SAYING you are a "disciple" means nothing.
One must ACTUALLY step into the oneness,
step out of the "world's constraints",
and INTO a NEW life, a new KIND of life,
the very life that Y'shua modeled for us.

He said WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE.
and He modeled this Himself.
He SAID we could do more!
With just the faith of a mustard seed.

So where is this active faith?
Where is this IMPOSSIBLE POSSIBILITY MANIFEST,
IN THE EXAMPLE OF THE MASTER's deciples?!

I think Jesus/Y'shua is wholly misrepresented by church doctrine.
His whole purpose, mission, and message.

WHY, would He pray that We would be ONE with the Father,
as He is ONE with the Father,
if it were not TO BE SO?!?

When were jesus' prayers EVER shown to be impotent?

As well Jesus was ALWAYS pointing to his Father,
for direction, power, etc etc....

Yes he IS "the way"...
the signpost... the pointer....
to the Father of us all.
But then so are the rest of us,
as we come to embrace the supernatural oneness.

I believe Y'shua came to set a precedent,
make an example,
SHOW THE TRUTH.....................
NOT,
I repeat, not,
to set Himself up as either an "Icon" or a "God".

 

[~Amin~]

I think Jesus/Y'shua is wholly misrepresented by church doctrine.
His whole purpose, mission, and message.


As well Jesus was ALWAYS pointing to his Father,
for direction, power, etc etc....

Yes he IS "the way"...
the signpost... the pointer....
to the Father of us all.
But then so are the rest of us,
as we come to embrace the supernatural oneness.

I believe Y'shua came to set a precedent,
make an example,
SHOW THE TRUTH.....................
NOT,
I repeat, not,
to set Himself up as either an "Icon" or a "God".

I AGREE 100%

 

[rocketman]

Mathew 5,9,43,45,48. Romans 8,14 these verses show clearly that any Pious person is the son of God not literaly.

You have two different concepts confused. The references you cite are lower case and not the prophesied 'Son of God' (Messiah/annointed one etc). Compare Matt 26:63,64 where both Son of Man and Son of God are capitalised and used interchangebly.

You really need to brush up on your Jewish history, which is an important key to understanding these sayings. This is incredibly basic Jewish stuff of the day. You don't seem to understand the importance of the central teaching of the Shema (one God) and the fact that Jesus promoted this teaching yet equated himself with God as has been shown many many times in this thread already. Not forgetting that he called himself by the divine name: no regular prophet would dare do that.

Neither did jesus I am ascending to My Father and your Father To My God and your God. John 20,17. Jesus had a God he wasnt God.

You have totally missed the context. Apart from everything else Jesus was an example of how we should respect God Almighty. Your assertion is easily dismissed by another quote from the same gospel: John 20:28,29

Thomas said to him "My Lord and my God!"
Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed"

Hello?????? If EVER there was a time to deny his godhood, that was it.

The Godhood of Jesus has been established by scripture for the majority of christians for nearly 2000 years. The same old arguments against it are wheeled out without checking.

Nothing new here.

 

[wizanda]

John Nicodemus/Nicolaitans is false!!!!!!!!...Yeshua said do not go after those who say "I am" (EGO I-mee) of him, as he didn’t speak such as it, as in the Anti-Christ post correctly explained again for you, encase you weren’t listening.
You your self now blaspheme God, as it has been shown to you...so next will be your Karma be aware....

 

[doppelganger]

Most commonly used verse to prove Jesus's divinity is
I and the Father are one.
If this interpretation is true then the diciples are also God,
because,

That they may all be ONE; as thou, Father, art
in me, and i in thee, that they also may be ONE
in us; that the world may believe that thou has
sent me.

And the Glory which thou gavest me i have
given them; that they may be ONE, even as we
are ONE: John 17,21,22.

What's wrong with that? Have you ever tried to merge identity with your avatar?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

It's simply my own (even if lame) way of explaining how I interpret Christ's purpose on earth.

All of the things you said can be backed with scripture but not linked together as His purpose for coming, as a man, to Earth. His sole purpose was to incarnate as flesh so that He could die for the atonement of mankind.

Evidence of this is that He was on Earth before he was flesh, which to me, shows he could have achieved the other purposes you stated without a fleshly incarnation.

 

[doppelganger]

All of the things you said can be backed with scripture but not linked together as His purpose for coming, as a man, to Earth. His sole purpose was to incarnate as flesh so that He could die for the atonement of mankind.

The only slight problem with that is that it makes your "God" look rather brutish and silly.

 

[blackout]

All of the things you said can be backed with scripture but not linked together as His purpose for coming, as a man, to Earth. His sole purpose was to incarnate as flesh so that He could die for the atonement of mankind.

Evidence of this is that He was on Earth before he was flesh, which to me, shows he could have achieved the other purposes you stated without a fleshly incarnation.

How could any other than a flesh being,
DEMONSTRATE to other flesh beings,
the otherwise imperceptable pathway
INTO the "kingdom of heaven" here on earth,
Now, In our Midst, AS Flesh Beings.

How else would we "copy" our teacher?
How else would we know what was possible,
if not by demonstration in the Flesh?

If it were not for Y'shua's example,
I'm not so sure I would KNOW what was possible,
and how to attain it.

Perhaps there are other teachers who have demonstrated such?
But I do not know of any personally.

This also is why I am TOTALLY TAKEN by Jesus' life example and teachings.
It is also why I couldn't care less what's contained in the books between the gospels and revelation.

 

[blackout]

All of the things you said can be backed with scripture but not linked together as His purpose for coming, as a man, to Earth. His sole purpose was to incarnate as flesh so that He could die for the atonement of mankind.

Evidence of this is that He was on Earth before he was flesh, which to me, shows he could have achieved the other purposes you stated without a fleshly incarnation.

If Jesus' sole purpose was to incarnate as flesh so that He could die,
for the sake of atonement,
why not that He would just have been slaughtered,
as a young sacrifice, at Herod's hand?

If that was the sole purpose?

Was there NO PURPOSE IN HIS LIFE?!

Did He come to show us how to LIVE?

Y'shua was slaughtered because He stood as truth in the world.
As he himself said...
ANYONE who comes against the world,
for the sake of the TRUTH will be persecuted.

Bring to light the LIES of the world,
and the world won't like you for it.

Even his DEATH was an EXAMPLE for us.

 

[Comprehend]

" GOD USES ATHEISTS TO FULLFILL HIS PURPOSE"
Did you know i experienced this?

Yes.

I have followed you around since you were a little child and I am able to read your mind.