JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
Women were not given the responsibility of the priesthood. For more info, read the Torah
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Discrimination in the Catholic Church
- Thread starter E. Nato Difficile
- Start date
Me Myself
Back to my username
I was under the apparently unresonable expectation that I was to read why that isn´t discrimination.
So Christ didn´t end the inequality of the old law. That is good to know. Should we have slaves too? Bible says it is okay as long as we treat them properly.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
:biglaugh:
At least we don't perp on our kids...:areyoucra
Subjugate natives and force conversion on them...:cover:
Hire a bunch of Spanish thugs to beat confessions out of people...
But we're the heretics??? C'mon, man!
Typical Roman response: We don't like this, so we're gonna pick up our marbles and go home! (Remember the Great Schism over one word in the Creed?) Nice work on their part, to not embrace diversity.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The Xian priesthood in no way is the same as the Levitican priesthood. And you know it -- or you ought to!
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
lol it was the Orthodox who didn't agree with the successor of Peter. They are at fault of the schism.:biglaugh:
At least we don't perp on our kids...:areyoucra
Subjugate natives and force conversion on them...:cover:
Hire a bunch of Spanish thugs to beat confessions out of people...
But we're the heretics??? C'mon, man!
Typical Roman response: We don't like this, so we're gonna pick up our marbles and go home! (Remember the Great Schism over one word in the Creed?) Nice work on their part, to not embrace diversity.
And you protestants act like your innocent lol. It wasn't the Vatican that claimed Blacks to be inferior to Whites. Yet the protestant churches in American had believed such with their sola scriptura. Also the burning of people on the cross, and massacre Indians. I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. Dont act innocent. And you will answer to the Lord for why you disregard his promises.
Sexual Abuse of Children by Protestant Ministers
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
You are saying their is no similarities?
Me Myself
Back to my username
You talk about their past, he talks about your present. That doesn´t really make you a case.
McBell
Unbound
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I'm not the one who began pointing fingers by using the judgmental term "heretic." Your use of this term is like the pot calling the kettle black. I would quote Jesus: "He who is without sin..."
The ECUSA isn't any more "heretical" than the Romans. Don't be so full of hubris that you paint yourself into a corner. You feel justified in your practice of not ordaining women. Many parts of the church disagree with you. So what?! All we're saying is, if you're gonna justify a practice by the texts, at least make it a valid argument. "Jesus wasn't a woman" simply isn't a good argument. Today's American Catholics argue against sexual discrimination, but then use a different cultural hermeneutic when interpreting the Bible. It doesn't make sense. Jesus was a man and the twelve were men, because the culture that wrote the Bible was highly patriarchal. Period. If the Bible had been written by a 21st century American, Jesus might have been Jesumina, and there might have been a Judi and an Amber and a Tiffani among the apostles.
The ECUSA recognized this discrepancy, found no good hermeneutical reason to support it, and abandoned the practice. Yet, that makes us "heretical." :foot:
Same goes for the Disciples. And the Methodists. And the ELCA. And the UCC. And the Presbyterians. Etc.
Again, rather than choosing to embrace that diversity and let it enrich the church, you choose to "circle the wagons," keep all the differently-colored folks out of your "members-only" club, and thereby diminish the church by curtailing its heritage of spiritual evolution. The American Protestants discovered that they needed to use the same hermeneutic for the Bible and society, found out that -- in this case, society's hermeneutic was closer to the thrust of the gospel message than what was written about slavery, and abandoned the practice. the Romans have yet to master that trick. It renders them increasingly ineffectual in post-modern society, IMO.
sojourner, you wrote : " The Presiding Bishop of the ECUSA is female. the General Minister and President of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) is female. I have had 4 female ministers. My mother is an ordained minister, as well as my ex wife, and her two sisters-in-law. Need I say more?
[edit] There are currently more female students in my seminary than male students. There are (that I know of) at least 5 professors at the school who are ordained females."
__________________
Probably true, but they weren't ordained the Bible way, as are the Catholic clergy, and not one can trace a direct lineage back to any one of the apostles. Making their "ordination " invalid, as according to the Word of God.
Maybe you people who claim to be Christians should follow your Bible and what it says about the Church, the "real Church " that is, not all these different conflicting mere-man made churches along with their off-shoot splintered cults.
" The members [ of the Body of Christ] do not all have the same function " [ Rom. 12 : 4 ].
The Catholic priesthood does not " compete with" or " replace " the priesthood of Christ , rather it is a sharing in that ministry. Protestants and others often argue against the Catholic teaching on the priesthood in two ways :
They argue that since Christ is are one High Priest[ Heb. 7: 22-28 ] , there is no need of any other priests. But Scripture is clear that Christ shares His sacred ministries with others. For example, Jesus is the creator of all things [ John 1: 1-3, Col. 1: 16-17, Heb. 1 : 1-2 ] but He shares an aspect of His role as creator with men and women via their gift of sexual procreation. Christ is the shepherd of His flock, the Church [ John 10v16 ], but He conferred that role , in a subordinate way, on His Apostles and on others [ John 21: 15-17 ; Eph. 4: 11; 1 Peter 5:4 [ where Peter calls Christ the " chief shepherd , which implies their being lesser, subornate, shepherds].
His royalty is conferred on Christians , who will share in His kingdom, will shear crowns in heaven, and sit on thones , and will reign as kings alonside Christ the King of Kings [ Rev. 4: 4, 10 ] .
Jesus has said that some Christians will share in the judgeship , even judging the angels in heaven! [ Matt19v28; Luke 22: 30; 1 Cor. 6: 2-3; Rev. 20: 4 ]
The Lord set up - His kingdom of priests - by establishing a special sacrificial priesthood [ Deuteronomy 33] explains the various duties of the OT priests [ Mal.1v 11 ] These duties are similar to those of the liturgical and sacrificial duties of the New Covenant priesthood [ Matt 28: 19, John 20v23; 1 Cor. 11v24; James 5v 14 .
In the New Covennant , Christ mirrored and perfected the arrangement we see in the Old Covenant when He established a special priestly office within the " kingdom of priests "that all Christians share in. He gave these priests special authority and power to offer sacrifice in His name , the sacrifice of His own Body and Blood: "Do this in memory of me " [ Luke 22 v 19 ] This new priesthood , that of Christ Himself, is the priesthood" according to the order of Melchizedek :[ Psalm 110v 4; Hebrews 5v6, 10: 6: 20 ], and this priesthood is superior to and more perfect that the Aaronic priesthood in the Old Covenant [ Heb. 3: 1-4, 7: 27, 8; 4-6, 9: 12-14, 25, 10: 5 ] Why ? Because the sacrifice of the NT priesthood is the same, once- for - all sacrifice of Christ on the Cross, represented in space and time at every Mass.
[edit] There are currently more female students in my seminary than male students. There are (that I know of) at least 5 professors at the school who are ordained females."
__________________
Probably true, but they weren't ordained the Bible way, as are the Catholic clergy, and not one can trace a direct lineage back to any one of the apostles. Making their "ordination " invalid, as according to the Word of God.
Maybe you people who claim to be Christians should follow your Bible and what it says about the Church, the "real Church " that is, not all these different conflicting mere-man made churches along with their off-shoot splintered cults.
" The members [ of the Body of Christ] do not all have the same function " [ Rom. 12 : 4 ].
The Catholic priesthood does not " compete with" or " replace " the priesthood of Christ , rather it is a sharing in that ministry. Protestants and others often argue against the Catholic teaching on the priesthood in two ways :
They argue that since Christ is are one High Priest[ Heb. 7: 22-28 ] , there is no need of any other priests. But Scripture is clear that Christ shares His sacred ministries with others. For example, Jesus is the creator of all things [ John 1: 1-3, Col. 1: 16-17, Heb. 1 : 1-2 ] but He shares an aspect of His role as creator with men and women via their gift of sexual procreation. Christ is the shepherd of His flock, the Church [ John 10v16 ], but He conferred that role , in a subordinate way, on His Apostles and on others [ John 21: 15-17 ; Eph. 4: 11; 1 Peter 5:4 [ where Peter calls Christ the " chief shepherd , which implies their being lesser, subornate, shepherds].
His royalty is conferred on Christians , who will share in His kingdom, will shear crowns in heaven, and sit on thones , and will reign as kings alonside Christ the King of Kings [ Rev. 4: 4, 10 ] .
Jesus has said that some Christians will share in the judgeship , even judging the angels in heaven! [ Matt19v28; Luke 22: 30; 1 Cor. 6: 2-3; Rev. 20: 4 ]
The Lord set up - His kingdom of priests - by establishing a special sacrificial priesthood [ Deuteronomy 33] explains the various duties of the OT priests [ Mal.1v 11 ] These duties are similar to those of the liturgical and sacrificial duties of the New Covenant priesthood [ Matt 28: 19, John 20v23; 1 Cor. 11v24; James 5v 14 .
In the New Covennant , Christ mirrored and perfected the arrangement we see in the Old Covenant when He established a special priestly office within the " kingdom of priests "that all Christians share in. He gave these priests special authority and power to offer sacrifice in His name , the sacrifice of His own Body and Blood: "Do this in memory of me " [ Luke 22 v 19 ] This new priesthood , that of Christ Himself, is the priesthood" according to the order of Melchizedek :[ Psalm 110v 4; Hebrews 5v6, 10: 6: 20 ], and this priesthood is superior to and more perfect that the Aaronic priesthood in the Old Covenant [ Heb. 3: 1-4, 7: 27, 8; 4-6, 9: 12-14, 25, 10: 5 ] Why ? Because the sacrifice of the NT priesthood is the same, once- for - all sacrifice of Christ on the Cross, represented in space and time at every Mass.
GabrielWithoutWings
Well-Known Member
LOL. The Eastern church is at fault 100%, huh?
Why don't you go on an Orthodox forum and say that canned-*** response? Your argument will be a grease stain in about 3 posts.
Here, I'll even give you a link:
OrthodoxChristianity.net
E. Nato Difficile
Active Member
So we've established that there are institutional inequities preventing women from obtaining positions of authority in the Catholic Church. But it's okay, according to the Catholics and certain others, because it's systemic. That is, it's not the product of personal bias, it's regulation that has been codified in Scripture and reinforced by thousands of years of Church practice.
I still say it's unfair and discriminatory, and it treats women as inferior to men. In addition, I hope women see the disdain that the Catholic hierarchy has for them and refuse to be part of the Church.
-Nato
I still say it's unfair and discriminatory, and it treats women as inferior to men. In addition, I hope women see the disdain that the Catholic hierarchy has for them and refuse to be part of the Church.
-Nato
Me Myself
Back to my username
I must insist, eunuchs can´t be priests. Is even horribler than just women xD. In any case, yeah I agree overal with what you said.
Splarnst
Active Member
If you knew anything about reality, then you would know your argument about women is stupid.
Pathetic, absolutely pathetic.
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
Right, I am fine. I do not need to do such. Come to Catholic Forums and say it is the Catholic Churches fault :thud:
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
This is reality. I do not see why an atheist should even have a say. You act as if feminist norms in modern society runs the church.
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
Yet there are many righteous women who have no problem with not being able to be priest or bishop, cardinal, Pope, whatever.
Secular norms do not run the church.
I wonder what St. Joan of Arc would say if she herd what is said.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Since Christian ordination isn't a Biblical practice, I don't see what your beef is. God called them the same as God called the 12... Predecessors chose successors, as the 11 chose Matthias...
Neither can the Romans -- or the Orthodox. That's a moot point. But what we can all agree on is that church leaders select their successors, and that's the way it's always been.
First of all, you're in no position of authority to make that call. Second, I'd like to know just what, specifically, ordination entails, "according to the word of God."
I'm waiting.
Taps foot impatiently.
Looks at watch.
Sighs.
Hears crickets chirp.
That's what I thought.
Maybe you should realize that when you point the finger, there are three pointing back at you -- plus a thumb sort of crooked over at someone else...
My Bible says that "whenever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in their midst." I have no idea what yours says, but I suspect it says the same thing. Point is, the difference of opinion lies in your hubris and fear. Qualities Jesus didn't share.
You're preaching to the choir here, Skeezix, with a few notable exceptions. Save your breath for an audience who needs it.
Last edited:
GabrielWithoutWings
Well-Known Member
I don't really have to. The Orthodox do perfectly fine on their own, even in Catholic territory. You know, when they aren't being heavily moderated.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I don't think it's discriminatory, because, again, ordination isn't a "right." It's a call.
However, the whole "systemic" thing really bothers me, because it's the same kind of insidious cultural machine out of which discrimination arises.