Renji
Well-Known Member
Sorry Lawrence, I'm just leaving.
If you Google Spong or Newell you'll see what I'm about
Well then, okay
. But you have a lot of answering to do when you go back in here
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Do Christians and Muslims Worship the Same God?
- Thread starter Renji
- Start date
Well then, okay
. But you have a lot of answering to do when you go back in here
Sajdah
Al-Aqsa Is In My Heart.
Well, from what you said (although I didn't understand you perfectly
) I can say that we don't worship the same God. The concept of God you worship seems vague to me. I'll post insha'Allah what Allah (swt) allowed us to know about Himself through the holy Qur'an...And you can tell me after that if it is the same as you believe or not!
Sajdah
Al-Aqsa Is In My Heart.
Thanks Lawrence, I think it's my turn
I'll cite what Allah (swt) 'The God Muslims worship' says about Himself in the holy Qur'an....
Allah (swt) has no father, no son, no partners, and nothing is comparable to Him.
In the name of Allah the most Gracious, the most Merciful
[112:1] Say (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)) "He is Allah, (the) One.
[112:2] "Allah-us-Samad (allah The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, (He neither eats nor drinks))
[112:3] "He begets not, nor was He begotten."
[112:4] "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him."
Allah (swt) doesn't sleep, doesn't rest in the seventh day of creation.
[2:255] Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists. Neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission? He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter. And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills. His Kursî extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. And He is the Most High, the Most Great.
Allah (swt) is the creator who preserves His creatures.
[39:62] Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is the Wakîl (Trustee, Disposer of affairs, Guardian) over all things.
[39:63] To Him belong the keys of the heavens and the earth....
[11:6] And no moving (living) creature is there on earth but its provision is due from Allah. And He knows its dwelling place and its deposit (in the uterus, grave). All is in a Clear Book (Al-Lauh Al-Mahfûz - the Book of Decrees with Allâh).
There is one and only God, there is no partner with Him
[23:91] No son (or offspring) did Allah beget, nor is there any ilah (god) along with Him; (if there had been many gods), then each god would have taken away what he had created, and some would have tried to overcome others! Glorified is Allah above all that they attribute to Him!
[21:22] Had there been therein (in the heavens and the earth) alihah (gods) besides Allah, then verily both would have been ruined. Glorified is Allah, the Lord of the Throne, (High is He) above all that (evil) they associate with Him!
[13:16] Say (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)) "Who is the Lord of the heavens and the earth?" Say: "(It is) Allah." Say: "Have you then taken (for worship) Auliya' (protectors) other than Him, such as have no power either for benefit or for harm to themselves?" Say: "Is the blind equal to the one who sees? Or darkness equal to light? Or do they assign to Allah partners who created the like of His creation, so that the creation (which they made and His creation) seemed alike to them." Say: "Allah is the Creator of all things; He is the One, the Irresistible."
Allah (swt) is not a moon God, a star, or the sun as some non-muslims believe!
[6:75] Thus did we show Ibrahîm (Abraham) the kingdom of the heavens and the earth that he be one of those who have Faith with certainty.
[6:76] When the night covered him over with darkness he (peace be upon him) a star. He said: "This is my lord." But when it set, he said: "I like not those that set."
[6:77] When he saw the moon rising up, he said: "This is my lord." But when it set, he said: "Unless my Lord guides me, I shall surely be among the people who went astray."
[6:78] When he saw the sun rising up, he said: "This is my lord. This is greater." But when it set, he said: "O my people! I am indeed free from all that you join as partners (in worship with Allah).
[6:79] Verily, I have turned my face towards Him Who has created the heavens and the earth Hanîfa, (Islâmic Monotheism, i.e. worshipping none but Allah Alone), and I am not of Al-Mushrikûn (see V.2:105)".
Allah (swt) has 99 names and attributes.
[59:22] He is Allah, besides Whom there is Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) the All-Knower of the unseen and the seen. He is the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.
[59:23] He is Allah besides Whom Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) the King, the Holy, the One Free from all defects, the Giver of security, the Watcher over His creatures, the All-Mighty, the Compeller, the Supreme. Glory be to Allah! (High is He) above all that they associate as partners with Him.
[59:24] He is Allah, the Creator, the Inventor of all things, the Bestower of forms. To Him belong the Best Names. All that is in the heavens and the earth glorify Him. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.
Finally that's what Allah (swt) says about prophet Jesus and his mother PBUT!
[4:171] "The Messiah 'Isâ (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rûh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs."
I think this is enough!
Now tell me, do you believe that Mulims and Christians worship the same God?
And sorry for that very long post, I tried to shorten it as I could!
Sorry, doing a bit at once today.
We define a religion by what the majority of its adherents hold as its defining ideals.
Just because someone doesn't fit that to a "T" doesn't mean that they are automatically excluded from the group. If you identify as a Christian, who am I to say otherwise? We all have personal views and interpretations of doctrines and beliefs.
But at the same time, I'm not going to accept your ideas as defining the religion when they aren't accepted by 95% of the group.
Renji
Well-Known Member
The Catholic teaching is parallel to what you said (different maybe, but is not opposing). RC church does not teach that God has a father, but rather God is the Father Himself, the father of all His creations. The concept of God, having a son however is different from what you said. The Catholic church teaches that we are the "children of God" (well, not literally. We believe that we are His children and He is our father for we are from Him). We believe that Christ is His Son from what our Bible tells us, John 3:16- "For God so Loved the world that He gave us His begotten son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life"
We also believe that God, personified here on earth as Jesus from what the apostle John tells us: John 1:1- "In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1:14- " And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth."
The Holy Spirit is pictured as the breath of God, who gave life to Adam and the one dwelling as Jesus. The holy spirit is the spirit of God which continuously tells us to do what is right and avoid what is evil (catholic dogma)
The story of creation at the book of Genesis tells us that God rested (but doesn't sleep ofcourse
)on the seventh day of creation, called the Sabbath. From what the Catholic Church say, sabbath is presented in the Bible to tell God's people to offer this day to Him. And I would also like to quote what Dardess say about the creation: " The Qur'an doesn't deny Genesis's depiction of the creation of the world in six orderly stages. In fact, the Qur'an assumes that its listeners already know about that primordial event from the Hebrew bible. The Qur'an wants to go instead to a point it believes is too often overlooked: the moral meaning of God's orderly creation. In sura 7:54, for example, the fact that the night and day "seek the other in quick succession" is not referred to confirm an orderly creative process, but primarily to show us, the Qur'an's audience, the lesson we should draw from that fact. The Qur'an if full of such references to the orderly obedience of the created world to God's amr or command. These references always target to human beings with the expectation that they will act according to the amr God has given to them as faithfully as the night and the day and all other phenomena already do to the amr given to them"Church says: "The mighty one God, the Lord, speaks and summons the earth from the rising of the sun, to the place where it sets."And this simply implies that God never stops doing anything. He is continuously doing things.
We also believe God is the great provider and preserver of things:
From the creation itself: "And the Lord God said, it is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him" (Genesis 2:18).
Matthew 6:26- "Behold the fowls of the air; for they sow not neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feed them. Are you not much better than they?"
Psalm 91:11- "For He will put his angels in charge of you to protect you in all your ways."
We also believe that. We believe that there's only one God, he just presented Himself as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We would like to view God like our body. Our body has different parts, but is only one.
I myself don't believe that Muhammad preached the transcendent god , but rather the God of the Hebrews. This is what Dardess is saying: "At first the Quraysh were not bothered by Muhammad's preaching. The word "Allah" was familiar to them as the name of the transcendent deity. They honored this deity, but preferred to worship their tribal idols seemed easier to approach. Muhammad appeared to be doing little more than adding a different emphasis to the already pluralistic religious environment which had become the Quraysh's bread and butter."
Renji
Well-Known Member
We also attribute different names to God and some of them are:
EL:-God"mighty, strong, prominent"
EL SHADDAI: -God Almighty or "God All Sufficient."
ELOHIM: - in Gen. 1. God as Creator, Preserver
ADONAI: - Lord
This one is what the Bible says:
Luke 1:26-38
In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary. The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you." Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end." "How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"
The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month.For nothing is impossible with God." "I am the Lord's servant," Mary answered. "May it be to me as you have said." Then the angel left her.
Although the Bible and Qur'an's account are a bit different, it agreed on one thing: Mary is a virgin singled out for a unique divine intervention. She reacts to this news in almost the same way, first with wonder and concern and then with acquiescence.
Now tell me, do you believe that Mulims and Christians worship the same God?
And sorry for that very long post, I tried to shorten it as I could!
Actually, my purpose of posting this topic is not to answer questions, but rather to throw out questions. But since you asked, my answer is yes. Why? Teachings of this 2 religions might be different. But atleast, they're somehow parallel.My reply is also long anyway
Thank you for sharing the teachings of Islam about God.
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
For some reason I find it troubling that Christians are using my native tongue in their liturgy.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
Here's a 3 odd minute video that I think captures the essence of what I believe.
BTW there's an ad first but it's short
Bishop John Shelby Spong: On God and the Bible - Video- Beliefnet.com
Sajdah
Al-Aqsa Is In My Heart.
Actually, my purpose of posting this topic is not to answer questions, but rather to throw out questions. But since you asked, my answer is yes. Why? Teachings of this 2 religions might be different. But atleast, they're somehow parallel.My reply is also long anyway
The core teachings of the 2 religions are different, but it doesn't mean that there are no similarities, we believe that Torah, and Injeel are the words of Allah but were altered later by the followers of both religions, so what is in accordance with the Qur'an is highly respected, but it is not the case here. The verses I quoted reject clearly the concept of Trinity, which is the basic belief in christianity, and call for pure monotheism....Anyway it's your opinion but I still don't agree with you!
BTW: When you find yourself ready to answer questions, tell me please because I've a lot of questions for you.
love
tri-polar optimist
I know that Christ did not coin the phrase "Christian". When people tried to praise Him He was quick to rebuke them. But in many places He paraphrased that He was the closest men would ever get to God in the flesh.
Judaism, Christian, and Islam claim to have originated from the faith of one man, Abraham. There are many prophets since the time of Abraham claiming the oneness of God.
I don't know when the last time the Judaism had a recognized prophet. Christ offered a prophet in the form of a Holy Spirit two thousand years ago to all who seek Him. Muhammad offered himself as a man that God had revealed all we would ever need to know about Him.
Where are the Abrahan's of today. I find it incomprehensible that someone hasn't come along in hundreds of years that God really felt comfortable laying it all on the line and showing them the path we must pursue if we are to survive.
It seems to me that our species have come a long way in the last one hundred years.
I guess either you believe one God is with us, or He said all he needed to say hundreds of years ago, or He never existed at all and the atoms of the universe just happen to come together in a fashion that allows the molecules that make up this mass we call a body the ability to conjecture abstract thought that could even conceive the possibility of a creator.
Just because someone or even an entire faith claims they believe in one God does not mean they have all the answers.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
True, but if, by God, you're referring to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, you're referring to the "Almighty God," and not His Son. When seen from this perspective, Christians, Muslims and Jews all worship the same God.
Renji
Well-Known Member
Ask the Jehova's witness christians about this. We catholics seldom use those titles (we use Latin or Greek usually) in attributing to God. I just included it since we're talking about christian doctrines (which includes JW's)and muslim doctrines.
Renji
Well-Known Member
The core teachings of the 2 religions are different, but it doesn't mean that there are no similarities, we believe that Torah, and Injeel are the words of Allah but were altered later by the followers of both religions, so what is in accordance with the Qur'an is highly respected, but it is not the case here. The verses I quoted reject clearly the concept of Trinity, which is the basic belief in christianity, and call for pure monotheism....Anyway it's your opinion but I still don't agree with you!
BTW: When you find yourself ready to answer questions, tell me please because I've a lot of questions for you.
Maybe it's just hard to explain to you the concept of Trinity in the christian (actually more on Catholic) perspective because of doctrinal differences. And I would also don't want to insist myself, for that opposes the catholic doctrine about freewill.
Ok, what sort of questions? But don't expect too much from me. I'm not that good in quoting something from the scripture, that's why I use our dogma as a guide. Also, don't expect that good answer from a 17 yr old like me, I'm not Einstein!
Renji
Well-Known Member
According to the catholic tradition, it was the people who professed that they were "Christians". According to that tradition, before Peter reached Rome, those who were baptized under the apostles call themselves "christians". When Peter first heard that word, his reaction is: "Christians? I didn't even know what that means." then another apostle answered (it's John, I think) "It means that they accept Christ as their Messiah."
So you're saying that we're all (Jews, Muslims and Christians) are all the descendants of Abraham? If that's the case, then we all worship the same God since Abraham honor that "God".
I think it's otherwise. Jesus was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and the spirit dwelt among Him it he presented the truth for those who seeks it/ him (well if you're talking of the RC doctrine. But anyway, I don't know your denomination)
I think God is calling us all to be His prophet.
My friend, that's a different case, and doesn't really answer the OP.
We may nor have all the answers but the least thing we can do is to "fill the gaps" or the "factors" that makes our answer to that question incomplete. We may not have a "full" answer, but atleast we relate our own faith's answer to the other faiths....
It was my understanding that the God of Abraham is the same God that Jews and Muslims worship. It is also the same god that Christians believe Jesus to be the son of, therefore it would be the same God in fact. The differences that separate the three religions are their beliefs concerning how this God is supposed to be worshiped ( e.g. Christians believe that you can only get to heaven by accepting Jesus as the son of this God. Jews and Muslims do not follow this belief). I am not familiar enough with Islam or the Jewish religion to state what is different between them. Even among Christian sects they don't all agree on many things hence the separations.
The short answer is no....we do not worship the same God.
Followers of islam worship Satan.
Christians worship the true creator God of the Universe.
Although the original intent of the Koran was a Christian message - it has been terribly mis-interpreted through the centuries by islam, so much so, that now followers of islam (i.e. Muslims) are unable to make the original Christian connection.
According to the authors of the Koran, Jesus is God Almighty; He was crucified until death upon the cross, singulary resurrected on the third day, and will return to judge the dead and gather His Elect into Heaven. In fact, the Koranic Paradise is described exactly as revealed to us in the Book of Revelation, of which, entrance into it is only through belief in Jesus Christ as Lord.
All this lost to ignorance...
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Father Heathen
Veteran Member
They all worship the god of Abraham, they merely hold different perspectives and portrayals of him. No one has the character trademarked so it's a silly argument.
Sajdah
Al-Aqsa Is In My Heart.
Really? From which anti-Islam book have you read that rubbish?!