Do Christians and Muslims Worship the Same God?

[Reverend Rick]

You do realize that every major branch of the Christian Church in existence today can trace its root back to Catholicism, right?

opcorn:

 

[Renji]

And yes, they've all retained bits of pagan influence to this day.

Not really. If that's the case, why would the Roman emperors persecute the early catholics?

 

[Renji]

Show us the ayat...

Why don't you read the previous parts of this thread. Find the part where Satjah posted Qur'anic verses and I compared it to the Biblical ones..... You're always saying "show us" you know that. It's already posted in this thread. It's just that you're not looking.

 

[Bowman]

Why don't you read the previous parts of this thread. Find the part where Satjah posted Qur'anic verses and I compared it to the Biblical ones..... You're always saying "show us" you know that. It's already posted in this thread. It's just that you're not looking.

I'm waiting for a reply from a cognizant follower of the Koran.

 

[Renji]

I'm waiting for a reply from a cognizant follower of the Koran.

Well then.........

 

[The_Evelyonian]

Not really. If that's the case, why would the Roman emperors persecute the early catholics?

The pagan influences didn't really become manifest in the early church until Constantine. Pagan Sun worship was the predominant religion before Catholicism. After Constantine signed the Edict of Milan in 313 A.D. Christianity was no longer outlawed. In the years that followed, as Christianity grew, much of the aspects and imagery of the earlier paganism found their way into the Church.

 

[kai]

you cant base any argument over the similarities in Christianity and Islam by using the old testament, Christianity is defined by the new testament and the new testament is not compatible with Islam and vice versa.

 

[Bowman]

Well then.........

Seems the brothers are ready with their opinions but no scripture to back it up...yes?

Till then we can just shoot the breeze, Larry...

 

[Renji]

The pagan influences didn't really become manifest in the early church until Constantine. Pagan Sun worship was the predominant religion before Catholicism. After Constantine signed the Edict of Milan in 313 A.D. Christianity was no longer outlawed. In the years that followed, as Christianity grew, much of the aspects and imagery of the earlier paganism found their way into the Church.

I know that, it's just that we Catholics view it the different way. Also, constantine has already converted that time. We do not worship the Sun god or the images. But we use those image to depict Jesus and all the saints.

 

[Reverend Rick]

you cant base any argument over the similarities in Christianity and Islam by using the old testament, Christianity is defined by the new testament and the new testament is not compatible with Islam and vice versa.

kai, Christians carry their Bibles into church most Sundays. Last time I looked, their Bibles contain the New testament AND Old testament.

 

[kai]

kai, Christians carry their Bibles into church most Sundays. Last time I looked, their Bibles contain the New testament AND Old testament.

sure they do! but that's always puzzled me Rick because i was always of the belief that the new testament made the old one redundant.That it was the new one that Christians adhere to that actually makes them a Christian and not a Jew. Its the New testament that actually defines what being a Christian is all about isnt it?

 

[Renji]

Seems the brothers are ready with their opinions but no scripture to back it up...yes?

Till then we can just shoot the breeze, Larry...

Maybe, brother.

Larry? that's the funniest name that someone has called me!

 

[Reverend Rick]

sure they do! but that's always puzzled me Rick because i was always of the belief that the new testament made the old one redundant.That it was the new one that Christians adhere to that actually makes them a Christian and not a Jew.

I see your point, but I don't believe Christians renounce that God the father is still part of the trinity.

Christians believe in the trinity which includes God the father, the same God that Jews and Muslims believe in.

When Christians started praying to Jesus, they did not renounce the God of the old testament.

 

[kai]

I see your point, but I don't believe Christians renounce that God the father is still part of the trinity.

Christians believe in the trinity which includes God the father, the same God that Jews and Muslims believe in.

When Christians started praying to Jesus, they did not renounce the God of the old testament.

Yep i agree with you there , but heres the point.

To Muslims god has no son or no trinity , that not even arguable in Islam.

Jesus was a Muslim man , and was not crucified, so no passion no resurrection no original sin no redemption through Christ.


Fundamental differences impossible to reconcile. the ramifications of these differences to me is that the God a Muslim perceives in his mind in prayer is not the same god perceived by a Christian in his mind in prayer.

It Cannot be!

 

[Quagmire]

I'm waiting for a reply from a cognizant follower of the Koran.

Then why did you ask a Christian...

Both the Bible and the Koran start out with Adam and Eve and THE SAME GOD.

Show us the ayat...

...and an atheist...

No they don't. They have a whole Sura (Chapter) in their Quran dedicated to him and his mother.

Show us...

...Instead of "a cognizant follower of the Koran"?


You seem confused.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Yep i agree with you there , but heres the point.

To Muslims god has no son or no trinity , that not even arguable in Islam.

No trinity, I agree with you. No son, debatable. Muslims do not believe Jesus had an earthly father.

Jesus was a Muslim man , and was not crucified, so no passion no resurrection no original sin no redemption through Christ.

Jesus could not have been a Muslim man. There where no Muslims back in Jesus's time. The first Muslim men arrived around 600 years later. The rest, we agree.

Fundamental differences impossible to reconcile. the ramifications of these differences to me is that the God a Muslim perceives in his mind in prayer is not the same god perceived by a Christian in his mind in prayer.

It Cannot be!

I disagree with your position in light of most Christians pray to Jesus which is part of the trinity which includes the God that jews and Muslims pray to.

It is both different but partially the same. What is laughable, is to listen to Pauline churches act like God and the holy ghost have nothng to do with who they pray to any more.

Many Christians are becoming monotheists praying only to Jesus now.

Denying God the father even plays a part in their religion any more is proof positive of my argument.

But then again, if Christians only pray to Jesus, you would be correct as well.

 

[kai]

No trinity, I agree with you. No son, debatable. Muslims do not believe Jesus had an earthly father.

But Muslims definitely believe God does not Begat nor was begot therefore they deny all possibility that Jesus was the son of Allah.In fact they beleive that Jesus is similar to Adam in this respect that God just said "be" and he was, That God is so powerful that he doesnt need a son.
Jesus could not have been a Muslim man. There where no Muslims back in Jesus's time. The first Muslim men arrived around 600 years later. The rest, we agree.

To Muslims Jesus (Isa) was a prophet of Islam therefore a Muslim, the same with all prophets from Adam to Moses to Mohamed. Muslims believe the Torah and Gospel were once part of the continuing revelation of Islam that culminated in the final revelation to Mohamed but they became corrupted

I disagree with your position in light of most Christians pray to Jesus which is part of the trinity which includes the God that jews and Muslims pray to.

It is both different but partially the same. What is laughable, is to listen to Pauline churches act like God and the holy ghost have nothng to do with who they pray to any more.

Many Christians are becoming monotheists praying only to Jesus now.

Denying God the father even plays a part in their religion any more is proof positive of my argument.

But then again, if Christians only pray to Jesus, you would be correct as well.

Remember that to Muslims there is no trinity to pray to a trinity or even accept that God is a trinity, is tantamount to blasphemy.If you are Praying to a Trinity or part of a trinity you are not praying to Allah.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Remember that to Muslims there is no trinity to pray to a trinity or even accept that God is a trinity, is tantamount to blasphemy.

We absolutley agree about that, but to say God the father is a different God than the Jews and Muslims pray to, I disagree.

Christianity is suppose to be a polythiest religion so it is a different religion than a monothiest religion, no debate about that.

 

[kai]

We absolutley agree about that, but to say God the father is a different God than the Jews and Muslims pray to, I disagree.

Christianity is suppose to be a polythiest religion so it is a different religion than a monothiest religion, no debate about that.

One god is a trinity the other isnt.

Oh we can say it doesn't matter ignore the stark differences. That it it is truly the same god and people are misguided. But the importance of the "worship no other God but me" thing is surely that in your mind your perception of God is the one his revelation has described to you.

Now of course the revelations are there to choose from, but, and its a big but , they are different they describe different Gods.

 

[Renji]

Remember that to Muslims there is no trinity to pray to a trinity or even accept that God is a trinity, is tantamount to blasphemy.

I don't want to be on the middle of this but I just want to clarify the concept of trinity:

The word "trinity" did not came from Jesus. You search the Bible and you will never encounter that word. That's why the other "christian" sects that deny this belief use this argument to prove that the Trinity was a mere invention of the Catholic Church.
A little history will enable us to understand why this word "Trinity" had come in. It was the key word that settled a problem caused by the Bible.
Early christians accepted the existence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (as what we can found in "our" scriptures) But since they had no time to study the relationship among the divine persons due to persecutions (they had to flee constantly), there was no problem for years. But when Constantine issued the edict of Milan that gave Christians the freedom to practice their faith in 313 AD, it had give them more time to study the Gospels. The first thing that intrigued them was the relationship among the divine persons. How can the existence of these 3 be reconciled with the belief of one God? Since that time, there was no declaration about this, the bishops reflected. One of them was Archbishop Arius of Constantinople. He claimed that Jesus was an "inferior God". This started the controversy that ended in the council of Nicea, where the bishops gather, with the blessing of the Pope, proclaimed that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are equal: One God in three (but not separated) divine persons, and where the word "trinity" was officially used to describe the Christian God.