Do Christians really overly persecute homosexuals?

[fallingblood]

why are you sick of it? wouldn't you rather be a part of the solution?

What I stated does not suggest that I don't want to be part of the solution. It states I'm sick of the over exaggerations that have gone on. There is no solution to a problem that doesn't exist; the problem I'm talking about is the idea that all Christians are out to get homosexuals.

I do accept that there is a problem, and I've worked to be part of the solution. However, that does not mean that I have to accept everything homosexuals say as the truth. And in cases, just like anyone else, I believe they can and do exaggerate to the extent of the problem. That is not to say that all homosexuals do, but that some do.

have you heard of the bible belt? tell me that these so called christians are not known for their bigotry and hypocrisy...the bible belt has the highest rates in STD's and teen pregnancy not to mention divorce rates...
just last week the residents in Birmingham Alabama wanted to close down ALL foreign restaurants...gee thats progress for ya...

Research has shown that the number of Christians are declining in the United States. More Christians are becoming more liberal. And more Christians are supporting homosexual rights. So yes, we are seeing a lot of progress.

you said "just because i don't condone what they do."
what does a homosexual do exactly that you do not condone....lie, steal cheat, murder...am i getting close?

I don't see where I said that. The part you quoted certainly doesn't say that. I've never stated that I personally do not condone what homosexuals do. So I have no idea what you are talking about.

ignorance must be blissful

You're best rebuttal? Seems about right.

 

[waitasec]

What I stated does not suggest that I don't want to be part of the solution. It states I'm sick of the over exaggerations that have gone on. There is no solution to a problem that doesn't exist; the problem I'm talking about is the idea that all Christians are out to get homosexuals.

of course they are aren't they christians..it's their job to judge and try to control other peoples lives

I do accept that there is a problem, and I've worked to be part of the solution.

oh please tell me how, i'd really like to know

However, that does not mean that I have to accept everything homosexuals say as the truth. And in cases, just like anyone else, I believe they can and do exaggerate to the extent of the problem. That is not to say that all homosexuals do, but that some do.

then you deny hate crimes...like people who deny the holocaust

Research has shown that the number of Christians are declining in the United States. More Christians are becoming more liberal. And more Christians are supporting homosexual rights. So yes, we are seeing a lot of progress.

why would you call it progress when you yourself say you do not condone who they are...oh sorry, what they do...like lying stealing and such, right?

I don't see where I said that. The part you quoted certainly doesn't say that. I've never stated that I personally do not condone what homosexuals do. So I have no idea what you are talking about.

here

Not condoning what someone does is not the same as saying we do not accept, allow, grant their right to breath. They don't even go hand in hand.

 

[Smoke]

It's lost in the thread now, but I did state that this thread was in response to one that was already in progress started by Senedjem, where he demonized a whole sect of Christians and claimed that they had an agenda, to basically get rid of homosexuals and other minorities.

"Fundamentalists" aren't a sect. Senedjem did make it clear that he wasn't talking about all Christians, but about some Christians. Maybe his terminology didn't suit you, but he didn't say, as you have accused him and others of saying, that all Christians persecute gay people.

He has also stated in this thread, that homosexuals cannot go out of their homes without the threat of being subjected to bigotry or hate crimes.

Obviously, that depends to some extent on where you live, but gay and transgender people do have to be alert to that possibility, even in generally gay-friendly cities like New York and San Francisco. In most of the country, most gay couples would think twice about things straight couples take for granted, like holding hands or kissing each other goodbye -- if they dare to do them at all.

 

[Smoke]

What I stated does not suggest that I don't want to be part of the solution. It states I'm sick of the over exaggerations that have gone on. There is no solution to a problem that doesn't exist; the problem I'm talking about is the idea that all Christians are out to get homosexuals.

As I said, you've made your position clear: the problem isn't so much anti-gay bigotry as it is gay people complaining about it.

 

[fallingblood]

of course they are aren't they christians..it's their job to judge and try to control other peoples lives

And you prove my point. The intolerance you show here, as well as the prejudice, is quite amazing.

oh please tell me how, i'd really like to know

I've actually explained before. But then it doesn't seem like you really read what I say anyway, so here it is again. I am a member of my local gay-straight alliance. I've performed at and promoted various public shows for them, which help spread knowledge.

then you deny hate crimes...like people who deny the holocaust

Wow. How do you get that from what I stated? It isn't anywhere in what you quoted from me, and I have never even suggested the like. Can you say misrepresentation?

why would you call it progress when you yourself say you do not condone who they are...oh sorry, what they do...like lying stealing and such, right?

Again, wow. When did I say I don't condone who they are or even what they do? And I call it progress as studies clearly show that we are progressing in this aspect. Seriously, did you even bother to read what I stated or are you just throwing out thoughtless insults right now?

here

What? How does that say I don't condone what they do? You even took it out of context and still you can't make it say that I don't condone what homosexuals do. You can't even make it say that I don't condone homosexuality. I'm assuming English may not be your first language and possibly the language barrier is getting in the way. Because as of now, all you have are baseless claims that are accusing me of some pretty serious things.

 

[fallingblood]

"Fundamentalists" aren't a sect. Senedjem did make it clear that he wasn't talking about all Christians, but about some Christians. Maybe his terminology didn't suit you, but he didn't say, as you have accused him and others of saying, that all Christians persecute gay people.

I never said that Senedjem did state that all Christians do. I did clearly state that he specified fundamentalist. Even that is incorrect though and a sweeping generalization which he believe to be true.

Him even stating that all fundamentalists hate Christians, persecute them, and trying to change laws just to basically get rid of them is grossly exaggerated. And I have yet to accuse anyone specifically that said that all Christians do. But even in this thread, it has been suggested that Christianity persecutes homosexuality or at least teaches that homosexuality is evil. That isn't even true.

Obviously, that depends to some extent on where you live, but gay and transgender people do have to be alert to that possibility, even in generally gay-friendly cities like New York and San Francisco. In most of the country, most gay couples would think twice about things straight couples take for granted, like holding hands or kissing each other goodbye -- if they dare to do them at all.

Every time you walk out your door, do you fear for you life? Do you even fear that you're going to be a victim of a hate crime or bigotry? Now granted, my closest experience with this is being a Muslims after 9/11, and I faced quite a bit of bigotry, and either threats of beatings or actual beatings. But I wasn't afraid every time I went out.

I can see why some would have more reason to fear, but even then, I doubt it would be every time they walked out the door.

The way Senedjem is making it sound is that homosexual have no rights, and have to fear for their lives all of the time that they are not in the privacy of their own homes. I mean, are you really not able to walk down your street without being fearful? Can you not leave your house with out worrying that you're going to be a victim of a hate crime?

Yes, I know it happens, but a constant fear? I would call that an exaggeration.

 

[fallingblood]

As I said, you've made your position clear: the problem isn't so much anti-gay bigotry as it is gay people complaining about it.

I acknowledge your right to fight for your equal rights. I support your right to fight anti-gay bigotry, and I will do so as well when I see it. However, once that fight turns into bigotry or intolerance to others, I can't really support that. When it comes down to demeaning anyone who disagrees, I can't support that. When it comes down to exaggerating the facts, especially in a way that demonizes another group unfairly, I can't support that.

 

[Jeremiah]

Good for you.

Thanks, it is nice to get a pat on the back, from time to time.

 

[Jeremiah]

Yes, I have prejudices. Everyone does. That does not make me a bigot.

Not condoning what someone does is not the same as saying we do not accept, allow, grant their right to breath. They don't even go hand in hand.

"Yes, I have prejudices."

You have made that abundantly clear.

 

[Jeremiah]

I acknowledge your right to fight for your equal rights. I support your right to fight anti-gay bigotry, and I will do so as well when I see it. However, once that fight turns into bigotry or intolerance to others, I can't really support that. When it comes down to demeaning anyone who disagrees, I can't support that. When it comes down to exaggerating the facts, especially in a way that demonizes another group unfairly, I can't support that.

If you don't like what we have to say, then it is simple, don't open the threads created. As long as the belief, "Homosexuality is a sin" is hurting people, I will speak out against it. Label me, whatever you have to, target me with your hostilities, I am use to it, it will not cause me to slow down, it will only encourage me to push ahead.

 

[Jeremiah]

You suggested that you couldn't walk out of your house without being attacked because you're gay. So suggest that is true for all homosexuals is an exaggeration.

I've been brutally beaten by people because I was a Muslim during 9/11. If I said that Muslims can't walk about of the house with out being brutally beaten just for being Muslim, wouldn't that be an over exaggeration? Yes it would.

But then again, I've covered all of this before. It's not my fault you didn't take the time to actually read what I've said before you started whining.

"I've been brutally beaten by people because I was a Muslim during 9/11."

I'll tell you what, I'll trade you. You take what I have been trough, and I'll gladly take your beating(s) (O ya, O ya, hit me bad boy, hit me bad boy). Although, considering your reaction to the whining of a few homosexuals, I doubt you'd have the mental fortitude to endure.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

"I've been brutally beaten by people because I was a Muslim during 9/11."

I'll tell you what, I'll trade you. You take what I have been trough, and I'll gladly take your beating (O ya, O ya, hit me bad boy, hit me bad boy). Although, considering your reaction to the whining of a few homosexuals, I doubt you'd have the mental fortitude to endure.

I find it interesting that fallingblood continues to bring up one example of how he was mistreated to show just how...what?...tolerant he is or strong he is? I wonder if he truly believes that is the extent people will go through and that anything else must SURELY be an exaggeration.

There's a reason for so many to stay in the closet, fallingblood.

 

[Jeremiah]

I find it interesting that fallingblood continues to bring up one example of how he was mistreated to show just how...what?...tolerant he is or strong he is? I wonder if he truly believes that is the extent people will go through and that anything else must SURELY be an exaggeration.

There's a reason for so many to stay in the closet, fallingblood.

I also like his use of the words "when" and "during": words that are of past tense, of a duration, a limited amount of time, are over now.

I remember, when complementing the nature sexual prejudice and homosexuality, realizing that this is something I'll have to deal with my entire life. That I can not simply change and run from my problems. That there is no "when I was a homosexual" for me.

 

[it's_sam]

Do you even fear that you're going to be a victim of a hate crime or bigotry? Now granted, my closest experience with this is being a Muslims after 9/11, and I faced quite a bit of bigotry, and either threats of beatings or actual beatings. But I wasn't afraid every time I went out.

Im extremely sorry to hear it. Americans are great at finding targets, especialy when they arent justified in any way. Im glad you were the stronger person and didnt hold a grudge. Safe journies friend

 

[Jeremiah]

Although to note-

When I was young, I did wish for a "when I was a homosexual". However now, if given the choice, I would choose to be homosexual because I love being one.

It was only when I believed the nonsense spread, things like "homosexuality is a sin" was I unhappy with who I was. But after I freed myself, from those confusing thoughts, I found I love being a homosexual and I would not have it any other way.

They, simply, don't understand what those types of beliefs do to a young and naive mind, a mind that desperately wants to fit in and will believe anything it is told.

 

[Duck]

Although to note-

When I was young, I did wish for a "when I was a homosexual". However now, if given the choice, I would choose to be homosexual because I love being one.

It was only when I believed the nonsense spread, things like "homosexuality is a sin" was I unhappy with who I was. But after I freed myself, from those confusing thoughts, I found I love being a homosexual and I would not have it any other way.

They, simply, don't understand what those types of beliefs do to a young and naive mind, a mind that desperately wants to fit in and will believe anything it is told.

I would argue that "they" DO understand, and that their goal is to break people of their individuality and promote blind conformity.

 

[sojourner]

It's an insidious analogy, because under the surface, it treats homosexuality as an event, rather than a permanent condition. Being a woman in redneck country, or a black in the South, would be a better analogy, since these are ongoing problems of bigotry.

 

[it's_sam]

As long as your willing to admit your giving up your right to create a child I have no problems with homosexuality or bisexuality. Having a family is a great gift though and it needs to be recognized as such. Being able to create a child with someone you love is a experience that should never be "confused" into someone. Its a choice, a choice your fine with and thats fine but your not everyone.

 

[Jeremiah]

I would argue that "they" DO understand, and that their goal is to break people of their individuality and promote blind conformity.

I don't think they do. The fault here, as it almost always is, is simple ignorance. I think if some of the individuals that embrace the belief "Homosexuality is a sin" had an inkling of what this can do to a young, developing mind, they would abandon that belief. But, it seems, that many are far to worried about themselves and their "right to oppose what they believe is wrong" to consider the consequences of their actions.

 

[Autodidact]

When I was an infant and a young adolescent I was not sexually attracted to anything. For me, my sexual attractions were acquired later in life.

During the Vietnam era I served in an intelligence unit. I was exposed to various brainwashing (behavioral modification) techniques. I am aware and have witnessed “brainwashing” taking place were the target did not realize that their behavior was being modified and in some cases controlled.

I am aware that a biological response (example: salivating) can be learned (conditioned). And that the brain actually rewires itself to accomplish the conditioning so that it is thereafter, natural. It has been proven, for example, that the brain must rewire itself before a person is capable of “naturally” reading Braille.

If one does not believe they are capable of something – there is no point of discussion that they may be able to exercise their will concerning that thing. If a person is cognizant of the possibility to modify basic behaviors and behavior triggers then and only then is it possible for them to take control of their life concerning whatever behavior. Otherwise they are a slave forever to whatever controls them.

As a Christian I am interested in being free (free will) and helping others to be free. It is a most difficult task and therefore, many think it to be impossible. However, I believe in freedom. But if someone desires slavery and believes in slavery – what is the point of discussing freedom?

Zadok

Uh, O.K. What does this have to do with this thread?

Are you asserting that loving someone of the same sex is slavery for some reason? I would say quite the opposite--denying someone the freedom to do so is more akin to slavery.