Do Christians really overly persecute homosexuals?

[Jeremiah]

You quote me and then respond to it.

Yes I do.

 

[it's_sam]

You seem to think atheists, Jews, Muslims and others face discrimination just like LBGT's, and that that means LGBT's shouldn't complain so much. Last I checked LGBT's were one of the very few groups that felt so alone and discriminated against that they commit suicide because of it.

Im not sure about current times but there was a point that dentists were the highest suicide rate of any profession... go figure right?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Im not sure about current times but there was a point that dentists were the highest suicide rate of any profession... go figure right?

I'm not sure about current times, but there was a point that that urban legend was widely believed...go figure, right?

 

[it's_sam]

I'm not sure about current times, but there was a point that that urban legend was widely believed...go figure, right?

Wow... are you always this quick to judge people? It was a statistic from a survey of suicides in all the professions. I dont need to prove anything to you but you seem to know it all anyway.

 

[it's_sam]

I guess ill prove it anyway. Stress-related suicide by dentists and other health care workers: Fact or folklore? -- ALEXANDER 132 (6): 786 -- The Journal of the American Dental Association

 

[it's_sam]

The problem was our foreign exchange student was going into dentistry and she allready dealt with depression. To say it wouldnt concern you in that situation would contridict the parts of the survey that are true.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I guess ill prove it anyway. Stress-related suicide by dentists and other health care workers: Fact or folklore? -- ALEXANDER 132 (6): 786 -- The Journal of the American Dental Association

So you've proved that your assertion that dentists have the highest suicide rate of any profession was false. Good job.

 

[it's_sam]

PERCENTAGE OF DEATHS DUE TO SUICIDE
U.S. white male population 25 and older (1970): 1.5
U.S. white male dentists (1968-72): 2.0 (85 of 4,190)
U.S. white male medical doctors (1967-72): 3.0 (544 of 17,979)
U.S. white male population 25 and older (1990): 2.0
U.S. white male medical doctors (1984-95): 2.7 (379 of 13,790)

Possibly more creditable, not sure. Atleast I think this is what I saw back then.

 

[fallingblood]

You seem to think atheists, Jews, Muslims and others face discrimination just like LBGT's, and that that means LGBT's shouldn't complain so much. Last I checked LGBT's were one of the very few groups that felt so alone and discriminated against that they commit suicide because of it.

So you are saying that they don't face discrimination, or just not as much? And show me where I said that people who face discrimination shouldn't complain.

I've stated clearly that I'm talking about some homosexuals, a specific group.

 

[it's_sam]

It also mentions this.

This is one of those dodgy things that "everybody knows." And not just the uninformed public, either--dentists themselves believe it. Since the 1960s dental journals have been carrying articles with headlines like "The Suicidal Professions." Dozens of studies have looked at suicide not only among dentists but among health-care workers in general. With few exceptions, research over the past 40 years has found that dentists (and doctors) take their own lives at a higher-than-average rate. But how much higher? To hear some tell it, you'd better not leave these guys in a room alone.
Dentists' odds of suicide "are 6.64 times greater than the rest of the working age population," writes researcher Steven Stack. "Dentists suffer from relatively low status within the medical profession and have strained relationships with their clients--few people enjoy going to the dentist." One study of Oregon dentists found that they had the highest suicide rate of any group investigated. A California study found that dentists were surpassed only by chemists and pharmacists. Of 22 occupations examined in Washington state, dentists had a suicide rate second only to that of sheepherders and wool workers.
But the sheer diversity of results has to make you suspicious. I mean, which is it--dentists, chemists and pharmacists, or sheepherders and wool workers? (What, the bleating gets to them?) And what about psychiatrists? One school of popular belief holds that they have the highest suicide rate.
Read the studies and you begin to see the problem. Suicide research is inherently a little flaky, in part because suicides are often concealed. Equally important from a statistical standpoint is the problem of small numbers: dentists represent only a small fraction of the total population, only a small fraction of them die in a given year, and only a small fraction of those that die are suicides. So you've got people drawing grand conclusions based on tiny samples. For example, I see where the Swedes think their male dentists have an elevated suicide rate. Number of male-dentist suicides on which this finding is based: 18.

 

[fallingblood]

We're on page 40 of people trying to show you your ignorance and enlighten you. I'd say it's a lost cause at this point.

We're on page 40 of people trying to show that I'm saying something I'm not. We're on page 40 of people insulting me because I dare talk about a specific group within the homosexual community that I don't agree with.

Nope. All we have to go on is your account. You have many more resources to go on with regards to the persecution of homosexuals.

That is crap. If I wanted, I could provide many sources showing that Muslims were persecuted after 9/11. Why am I suppose to take someone's account of being persecuted or be called a bigot when they don't do the same for me? That is hypocritical.

 

[Magic Man]

So you are saying that they don't face discrimination, or just not as much?

I'm saying they're not discriminated against the same way homosexuals are. When the problem is bad enough that LBGT's resort to committing suicide, I'd say that's pretty bad.

And show me where I said that people who face discrimination shouldn't complain.

OK, let's start with the thread title.

 

[Magic Man]

We're on page 40 of people trying to show that I'm saying something I'm not. We're on page 40 of people insulting me because I dare talk about a specific group within the homosexual community that I don't agree with.

As I said, we're on page 40 of people trying to show you your ignorance. Thanks for confirming it, though.

That is crap. If I wanted, I could provide many sources showing that Muslims were persecuted after 9/11. Why am I suppose to take someone's account of being persecuted or be called a bigot when they don't do the same for me? That is hypocritical.

 

[ChristineES]

Is this turning into some kind of contest- "Who's more discriminated against?". You can't really tell how bad someone is discriminated against unless you experience it for yourself. Native Americans were treated pretty badly in the past, too; for example, they weren't given the right to vote until 1956! Women, too, have been treated pretty badly in the past- husbands used to be able to abuse their wives, women could not vote until 1920 (thanks to Susan B. Anthony and others), women still get paid less than men in the work force! I have heard some stories about gays being beat up just because they are at a bar, not being able to keep a job or fired because they are gay (I heard about this not less than 6 or 7 years with a instructor I had who was gay, I really liked this teacher, he was the best I had at the college). You can't deny that these things happen, just because they did not happen to you or me.

 

[fallingblood]

I'm saying they're not discriminated against the same way homosexuals are. When the problem is bad enough that LBGT's resort to committing suicide, I'd say that's pretty bad.

Thanks for clarifying. Also, I never equated the fight of atheists, muslims, or etc with that of homosexuals.

Also, I don't know if suicide rates really show much. There are too many factors that go along with suicides.

OK, let's start with the thread title.

Okay, you're point? How does that state that people who are discriminated shouldn't complain?

 

[fallingblood]

Is this turning into some kind of contest- "Who's more discriminated against?". You can't really tell how bad someone is discriminated against unless you experience it for yourself. Native Americans were treated pretty badly in the past, too; for example, they weren't given the right to vote until 1956! Women, too, have been treated pretty badly in the past- husbands used to be able to abuse their wives, women could not vote until 1920 (thanks to Susan B. Anthony and others), women still get paid less than men in the work force! I have heard some stories about gays being beat up just because they are at a bar, not being able to keep a job or fired because they are gay (I heard about this not less than 6 or 7 years with a instructor I had who was gay, I really liked this teacher, he was the best I had at the college). You can't deny that these things happen, just because they did not happen to you or me.

I'd give you frubals for this post, but I can't because it seems like I've been giving you quite a few frubals lately.

 

[fallingblood]

As I said, we're on page 40 of people trying to show you your ignorance. Thanks for confirming it, though.

Please, if you're going to insult me, at least prove it. I really don't get this childish tactic that you and others have been using against me. I mean is it seriously that bad that I don't agree with all homosexuals?

Thanks for proving my point. You have no case accept childish attacks.

 

[Magic Man]

Thanks for clarifying. Also, I never equated the fight of atheists, muslims, or etc with that of homosexuals.

Well, you may not have meant to, but you did.

Also, I don't know if suicide rates really show much. There are too many factors that go along with suicides.

What they help show is that the situation LGBT's find themselves in is not blown out of control.

 

[Magic Man]

Please, if you're going to insult me, at least prove it. I really don't get this childish tactic that you and others have been using against me. I mean is it seriously that bad that I don't agree with all homosexuals?

Thanks for proving my point. You have no case accept childish attacks.

 

[fallingblood]

Well, you may not have meant to, but you did.

Only because people are unwilling to really read what I'm saying, instead of taking it out of context and not reading the follow up where I clarify exactly what I mean. Really though, I shouldn't have to clarify nearly every single thing I say. It is ridiculous that amount of misrepresentation that has gone on in this thread.

What they help show is that the situation LGBT's find themselves in is not blown out of control.

No it doesn't. Are we persecuting old people? We see a high risk of suicide with the elderly. Does that mean we are persecuting them to that point? What about heterosexuals? You are not taking the different factors into account.

Also, I've been very clear on what I meant. That a specific group within the homosexual community, have blown things out of proportion. I've clarified what I meant in various posts. I have never said that homosexuals aren't persecuted, or even that the level of persecution they face is minimal. I stated that it is not as bad as some would make it out to be.