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Do you as a Muslim believe in women's equality?

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
If anyone understood what the heck you were saying, they might answer it. Try plain English, somewhere down at my level.... you know, near the floor :p

Not to intrude, but...........
I understood the question quite clearly and I'm a woman. So much for not being able to do what a man does, eh? As Mystic said, it was asked in layman English. But as I am not a Muslim, I could not answer the question. So I must ask, are you just being obtuse, sir? Or are you saying that you can't understand basic English?
 

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
Yes and no.

Yes in no one should be forced to do what they don't want to do.

No in treating them the exact same way men are treated.

Both genders have their own distinctive natural features that govern what they can do better, and some times I think exclusively, than the other. Culturally specifically, each could have roles that if neglected, things will become screwed up and that culture losses its identity.

I guess!
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Yes and no.

Yes in no one should be forced to do what they don't want to do.

No in treating them the exact same way men are treated.

Both genders have their own distinctive natural features that govern what they can do better, and some times I think exclusively, than the other. Culturally specifically, each could have roles that if neglected, things will become screwed up and that culture losses its identity.

I guess!
Welcome to-
The subjectofwomenin Islam-
Not the woman socially??
1. in order that-
You are here:Muslim
2. What is the answer to my question??
3. Why do women in paradise??
Do youhavea reminder ofnymphs??Note
Menhavenymphs??
4. do women have evocative of nymphs??Note
5. told you that women do not have full mind??
6. does God's imperfect??
7. you speak of body characteristics and dissent among men والمراءه
8. do you believe in natural law??
9-nature gave women bodies differently than men
10-nature gave women certain functions differ from men
11. the creator grants them all perfect no shortage
12. authorization of women lack the mind
13. is the word NULL
14. female creatures with the best
15. but they are underrepresented in the age of reason
 

Looncall

Well-Known Member
Yes and no.

Yes in no one should be forced to do what they don't want to do.

No in treating them the exact same way men are treated.

Both genders have their own distinctive natural features that govern what they can do better, and some times I think exclusively, than the other. Culturally specifically, each could have roles that if neglected, things will become screwed up and that culture losses its identity.

I guess!

Considering that, excluding matters concerning physiology, the distributions of abilities of men and women overlap, what you wrote is nonsense. Both men and women should be free to develop their abilities as best suits them, without being restricted by superstitious taboos.

Some cultures deeply deserve to be lost. The world would be better off without them.
 

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
Considering that, excluding matters concerning physiology, the distributions of abilities of men and women overlap, what you wrote is nonsense. Both men and women should be free to develop their abilities as best suits them, without being restricted by superstitious taboos.

Some cultures deeply deserve to be lost. The world would be better off without them.

I don't know what's making you angry at me or your hatred at some cultures. I don't want women to be touched all over by police men at check points and in cases of speciousness. Women deserve to have paid vacations in their special monthly periods and for pregnancy/delivery periods. Women should not stand in long lines like men can do. If you want that to happen to your women, it's your call, but don't push it on others like your views are the right and perfect ones.

I don't know why people these days don't wanna discuss things with an open mind. So what if I was wrong? You think you're method in conversing helps at all?

Excluding what you excluded which happens to be the reason behind my post in the first place makes what you said the nonsense here.

At some point I thought you were a reasonable person willing to discuss things properly, but I was completely wrong about you with that attitude of yours.
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
Yes and no.

Yes in no one should be forced to do what they don't want to do.

No in treating them the exact same way men are treated.

Both genders have their own distinctive natural features that govern what they can do better, and some times I think exclusively, than the other. Culturally specifically, each could have roles that if neglected, things will become screwed up and that culture losses its identity.

I guess!

When the majority here evaluate equality, we're not merely evaluating ability and capability.

We're evaluating equal right to dignified treatment, safety, unencumbered speech, opportunity & freedom to pursue personal interests without discrimination based on gender.
 

Looncall

Well-Known Member
I don't know what's making you angry at me or your hatred at some cultures. I don't want women to be touched all over by police men at check points and in cases of speciousness. Women deserve to have paid vacations in their special monthly periods and for pregnancy/delivery periods. Women should not stand in long lines like men can do. If you want that to happen to your women, it's your call, but don't push it on others like your views are the right and perfect ones.

I don't know why people these days don't wanna discuss things with an open mind. So what if I was wrong? You think you're method in conversing helps at all?

Excluding what you excluded which happens to be the reason behind my post in the first place makes what you said the nonsense here.

At some point I thought you were a reasonable person willing to discuss things properly, but I was completely wrong about you with that attitude of yours.

I am not angry at you as a person, just at some of the ideas you express. You seem to be a decent, reasonable person.

Where I live, there are no police check points and, when a search is needed, a woman is attended by a policewoman. Women here manage their periods largely without disruption and maternity leave (for men as well as women) is arranged by the government. The women in my family would be insulted to be told that they could not do simple things like standing in line. Matters here are not governed by archaic systems of misogeny. There is no need to treat women like prized cattle.

At present, I find myself angry over various reports from the Middle East: enslavements, beheadings, genocide, torture by flogging over a mere difference of opinion, utter inability to overcome primitive tribalisms, and on and on.
 

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
When the majority here evaluate equality, we're not merely evaluating ability and capability.

We're evaluating equal right to dignified treatment, safety, unencumbered speech, opportunity & freedom to pursue personal interests without discrimination based on gender.

Then I agree. In those aspects I believe women should be equal.

I tried to connect what naturally makes a gender different than the other. We have a saying that goes "who misses a thing, cannot give it". I don't think it is good to give a woman an equal opportunity for a job that requires extensive heavy lifting. I don't want women to be abused like that. But then again I'm only adding more unrelated talk to it. I could be wrong, why not.

And ma'am, thank you for your open minded posts :)
 

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
There is no need to treat women like prized cattle.

We can treat them as precious human beings and I believe that women are more precious than men in Islam. The mother is more important than the father and the wife is more important than the offspring. Not that one side is not important of course.

At present, I find myself angry over various reports from the Middle East: enslavements, beheadings, genocide, torture by flogging over a mere difference of opinion, utter inability to overcome primitive tribalisms, and on and on.

Yes but I'm as angry at those as you are, and even more. Those are bad seeds in cultures, not bad cultures. Saudi Arabia has different cultures and mine is the Hijazi culture.

I am not angry at you as a person, just at some of the ideas you express. You seem to be a decent, reasonable person.

Look, I'm really sorry I snapped up there. But to call what I say nonsense and implying things about my culture is the reason that happened and I shouldn't have let it happen. You can always tell me I'm wrong and it is always welcomed specially with the reason why.
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
I absolutely love that a misogynist calls me a misandrist. Especially when he obviously has no clue that I speak out about men's rights as well.

Ever thought that perhaps their own family may need her working more? Ever thought that, perhaps, just perhaps, that the other spouse in the household simply can't bring in quite enough to make ends meet? Perhaps they are laid off, perhaps they simply don't have the best education or experience to get a better paying job, perhaps the family has extra expenditures such as medical needs that need paying for?

Your judgments and statements are cruel, without knowledge, blind and show you don't think any further than your own sexist ideas.


Have you ever thought that women workign has changed the market place in the first place?
And as for my judgements being cruel, that is a laugh. That is like blackmailing someone to shut them up so you can get what you want. Perhaps we should have said the same with women when the wanted the vote in the UK
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
So, wait, now you are claiming that if a factory does lay-offs it is the fault of feminism? That if a man didn't pursue college or maybe didn't even get his high school diploma it is the fault of feminism? Everything possibly bad that can happen to a man is women's fault? And you still maintain, with an outlook like that, that you aren't a misogynist? Do you read the things you say? It truly is all about the evil women, the spawn of "Eve" for you isn't it? Men are innocent in everything, it is all a woman's fault. Women taking jobs, women pursuing careers, women standing up for themselves and not putting up with abuse or cheating or just being basically miserable in a relationship. How dare women, right? By sheer virtue of our vaginas we should just shut our mouths, take whatever we are given, stay out of a "man's world" and stop mucking things up by daring to think we are capable human beings. Capable of helping men, of working alongside them, of taking burden off of them by helping to contribute to and support families. By saying that men and women are equals, that men don't have to have all the pressure on them. That men can fulfill their dreams as well even if their dreams are of caring for children, being a daycare provider, or any number of things you seem to think are "women's duties". You, who seem to hate on women so, also don't seem to have much faith in men. You outright say that a man can't raise a child as well as a woman. That is ludicrous. Men are just as capable of parents as women can be. Being a parent, raising children, has nothing, NOTHING, to do with what your reproductive equipment may be and absolutely everything to do with one's heart. I, the one you accuse of being a misandrist, happen to think men make wonderful parents if given the chance. I, unlike you, a man, happen to think men have caring hearts and are just as equal parents as women.

We, all of us, men and women, are not and should not, be defined by what happens to be between our legs, but by our hearts and minds.
Why do women always have to mention body parts when they're talking to men? I have no idea!
It is also interesting that you idea of equality is always connected with money and power. How enlightening.
But of course, to not look as though you have mysandristic views, you have to say your trying to help fulfill your husbands dreams...haha, nearly fell off my chair at that one.

Somehow the husband being at home with no job because a woman's taken it, is fulfilling hsi dreams...haha.

Also funny how saying a woman should bring up the family or work from home means you hate women
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
Then I agree. In those aspects I believe women should be equal.

I tried to connect what naturally makes a gender different than the other. We have a saying that goes "who misses a thing, cannot give it". I don't think it is good to give a woman an equal opportunity for a job that requires extensive heavy lifting. I don't want women to be abused like that. But then again I'm only adding more unrelated talk to it. I could be wrong, why not.

And ma'am, thank you for your open minded posts :)
I don't think a job that requires heavy lifting is abusive towards women. Everybody has their own unique capabilities regardless of gender. Some women are stronger than some men. I know I was quite stronger than many men I knew for a while. I use to spend a lot of time weight-lifting and working out and use to have arm-wrestling competitions with male Marines...many I won. Honestly, who do you think would probably have an easier time with heavy lifting between these two?
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Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
You are absolutely right. Someone should always be there for the child. That someone could just as easily be the father or a grandparent or an older sibling or whoever else is willing to look after them until the mother returns home.

I know that a working mother can be an effective mother because I've seen it first hand. I've lived with it. The majority of the time she was at work I was at school so we spent most of our time at home together anyway. I can think of no harmful effects from the setup we had but I can think of benefits (the extra money definitely helped us at times).
Not grandparents in the UK, they've already been dumped in a home.

and the someone who should be there for them is the one that bore them.
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
You know, sometimes it is just nice to be out of the house without your children. As an adult. To have adult conversations. To do things on your own without having to constantly say "no, put that down", "no we can't go to McDonald's", "stop teasing your sister", "quit kicking the back of my seat", "no, you don't need candy" and so on. Even given that, I suppose @Robert.Evans , you think it extremely selfish for a woman to think like that and to even go out on her own to do grocery shopping while leaving children home with their father or another family member and to do such is putting them into that "not a mother" category. I mean, to not be constantly attached by the hip to her children...a mother should be ashamed of herself right? Even though the children have other family to care for them. To love them, guide them, provide for them, teach them. It is obviously a failure on the mother's part if anyone other than her do this, as she should be doing it 24/7. Right?
Depends on the age of the child. Clearly the baby should be with the mother.
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
Depends on the age of the child. Clearly the baby should be with the mother.
A father is just as capable of taking care of a baby. The only thing a mother can do that a father can't is breastfeed. Don't project your own inadequacies upon all other men please.
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
I've no problem with that type of family construct for those who are happy with it. I'm content with my life choices ans familial construct as is. I take no issue with others partaking in such a lifestyle and am willing to acknowledge the benefits that such a lifestyle may yield for such people and their children.

I enjoy working outside of the home and I have to work to support my family. I have a strong network of family and we're there for each other, but, we're also independent people as well. My husband gets home from work within 15 minutes from my youngest child getting off the bus. My oldest child is home for less than two hours before her parents and together, we address dinner, homework, family time, etc

When you love your family and you work - you balance. It works. It's not always easy, but, it works out.

Yes, I believe it was absolutely practical for women to get the vote. Women are contributing members to society. You've stated yourself that everything that women do impacts society.

Women are more than vessels to screw, give birth and keep a house and care for family. We have minds and are capable of making positive impacts in this world. Some of us are perfectly content with getting married, giving birth and caring for family. That's perfectly fine. I have no problem with this.

My concern is when a woman is forced to do this and doesn't want to.

As individuals deserving of dignity, I believe women should have right to opportunity, just as men.

I'm grateful that I live in a free society.
Like other feminists generally think, there is always an over reaction to do with procreation for some reason, insecurity I would say, and also it appears an insecurity in their own worth, which is apparently judged by what they do out of the house in a man's role and not what they do in the house in the role of a woman. This role seems to be looked down on. Perhaps that is the fault of men in the past. Either way, I think you judge youself incorrectly, if you are saying you are of no value unless you have a job and make money, which seems to be what you are saying.
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
I'm part of various groups. There's no reason as to why I should forsake nurturing my individuality as part of various groups. In fact, I have a strong hunch that mental health professionals would advise against doing so. It's not really healthy to be co-dependent to the extent that you lose your sense of individuality.

I don't have a problem with what you've described above as long as all involved are happy. Remember that my issue is when there's abuse and oppression.

If this is what people know and it's working for them, who am I to judge them?
Again I think there is an insecurity there for you to think that being dependent on a man (if that is what you are saying) means somehow you are of no worth. If that is what you are saying then it is wrong . Women generations ago always helped their husband in their business. That does not mean that you have to think less of yourself. That is a lack of inner belief in yourself I think.
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
If a man says that they can't work or study because of feminism, then quite frankly, he is what we call over here "**** weak." And trust me, that's the polite terminology.
How delightful!
Bu t who is saying that a woman should not learn nor work? No one as far as I know. I am saying there is a difference in roles, and that women do not have to be men to be of value.
 
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